Disney Pulls Costume - "Cultural Misappropriation"

[FelrikTheDeleted]

There is purposeful misuse of the language, for example when someone reduces a sentence to a word, an example being "YOLO", some might consider that disrespectful.

Why is turning something into an acronym a sign of disrespect?

This also brings another concern to the table, what people see as disrespectful is subjective, one person of that culture may see it as offensive, while another may see it as OK to do.

Like what?

I wouldn't know, you'd have to ask the people who consider it offensive.
Nonetheless, I'd like to ask, who decides what is and what isn't offensive.

[Killdash]

Misusing the language could be considered cultural appropriation because ultimately they're not using it correctly.

Earnest mistakes are not disrespect.

But define frivolous? There was a case in the US, I believe, about dreadlocks on white girls, and I believe their motive was that they looked "cool". Arguably, that's a pretty frivolous reason.

Yeah, that's disrespectful use.

What about black girls who straighten their hair then? Is that frivolous?

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

I wouldn't know, you'd have to ask the people who consider it offensive.

So it's a meaningless hypothetical then. OK.

Nonetheless, I'd like to ask, who decides what is and what isn't offensive.

The people who are part of the cultures in question.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Earnest mistakes are not disrespect.



Yeah, that's disrespectful use.

What about black girls who straighten their hair then? Is that frivolous?

Which culture are they appropriating by straightening their hair?

[Esternial]

So you're saying that you think that someone who was born in England, raised in 'English' culture and who speaks English as their primary mode of communication but who happened to have ancestors who were born elsewhere isn't and cannot be English?

I'm saying they're performing "cultural misappropriation" by mocking people with true English heritage.
That's the logic behind "cultural misappropriation".

It leads to minorities being isolated, and being perceived as "annoying" by the powerful majority.

I foresee a tragedy if such trend continues and expand.

I'm almost sure that this is sarcastic.

[MERIZoC]

Sure, but what about indian (native American) costumes?

Excempt because they're such a staple in our society?

No those are pretty fucking racist too

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I can see why Pacific Islanders might not like this.

They depict Maui in a way that for them is offensive.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I wouldn't know, you'd have to ask the people who consider it offensive.

So it's a meaningless hypothetical then. OK.

Nonetheless, I'd like to ask, who decides what is and what isn't offensive.

The people who are part of the cultures in question.

Some may think it ok, some think it isn't.
Some white people may think a black girl using the English language as cultural appropriation, after all it's not her ethnic back ground.

[Chessmistress]

I think that for a season people should never wear non-European styles of clothing at all, or perhaps just dress generically all the time. I think that people should not eat foreign foods, wear foreign clothes or buy foreign goods for a while. Let's see how they like that. Keep it simple. I also think that it would be a good idea not to show much interest either. If they want segregation, let them have it.

Sounds logical.
Most foreign clothes have deeper meanings and symbolisms that we don't know: therefore wearing it is very likely to be "disrespectful".
Same for many dishes.
Worth mentioning that foreign dishes are often eat in a way that's wrong and it's perceived as "unpolite" and/or "rude" and/or "disgusting" by the foreigners who created such dishes.
The same logic also should applies even to local productions based on foreign models.

The main problem would arise if the powerful majority would then start asking the minorities to do the same, but opposite, renounces.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Technically speaking, even the whole movie would be "cultural misappropriation", since the writers of the plot, and most the cast, aren't polynesians.
Technically speaking, all people with non-English heritage in USA, speaking English, are performing "cultural misappropriation" on a daily basis by simply speaking English.
Also all the people who speak foreign languages are perfoming "cultural misappropriation".

That's why I think that the idea of "cultural misappropriation" should be totally rejected.

I think that Disney, acting in a very stupid way in such case, deserve to lose the earnings from such merchandise.

Just my two cents, as they say in USA: even that's "cultural misappropriation", of course just like the fact that I'm actually writing in English...

I'm of a very restrictive view of cultural misappropriation, although what I feel I am more aware of is people being ignorant of something that's not of their culture.

I mean, there is a very palpable difference between just talking in English and mocking people for speaking English with an British accent.

One is fine, the other one is insulting.

[Prusselanden]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-pulls-boys-costume-critics-lambasted-as-polyface/ar-BBwstd1?OCID=ansmsnnews11


In recent news, Disney has pulled a children's costume from the upcoming film "Moana" over complaints of "cultural misappropriation".

In my opinion, it's ridiculous that child cannot even wear a costume depicting someone of another ethnicity, lest someone find it mildly offensive. If they had made the costume white, there would have been cries of racism. If they didn't make movies about other cultures, they'd be racist. What is Disney supposed to do?


Anyways, what does NSG think? Was Disney right in pulling the costume? Were the ones making the complainants justified? Does cultural misappropriation even exist?

That boy needs to earn his tattoos. Get rid of the Tattoos. Shark teeth have meaning in cultures of the Meditteranean though, but still not in Polynesia, I don't think(I don't know anything about Shark teeth symbolism in Polynesian cultures...)
The Grass skirt...eh. I guess it could stay.

[Chessmistress]

I'm saying they're performing "cultural misappropriation" by mocking people with true English heritage.
That's the logic behind "cultural misappropriation".

It leads to minorities being isolated, and being perceived as "annoying" by the powerful majority.

I foresee a tragedy if such trend continues and expand.

I'm almost sure that this is sarcastic.

Nope.
I'm terribly serious.

[Balkenreich]

Sure, but what about indian (native American) costumes?

Excempt because they're such a staple in our society?

No those are pretty fucking racist too

Meh.

[Esternial]

I'm almost sure that this is sarcastic.

Nope.
I'm terribly serious.

So an English citizen with non-English parental roots is performing cultural misappropriation by being English?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I think that for a season people should never wear non-European styles of clothing at all, or perhaps just dress generically all the time. I think that people should not eat foreign foods, wear foreign clothes or buy foreign goods for a while. Let's see how they like that. Keep it simple. I also think that it would be a good idea not to show much interest either. If they want segregation, let them have it.

Sounds logical.
Most foreign clothes have deeper meanings and symbolisms that we don't know: therefore wearing it is very likely to be "disrespectful".
Same for many dishes.
Worth mentioning that foreign dishes are often eat in a way that's wrong and it's perceived as "unpolite" and/or "rude" and/or "disgusting" by the foreigners who created such dishes.
The same logic also should applies even to local productions based on foreign models.

The main problem would arise if the powerful majority would then start asking the minorities to do the same, but opposite, renounces.

As a Latin American I tend to disagree with this broad view of what constitutes respect and what doesn't.

Wearing something is not disrespectful. I mean, if you like to dress in traditional garb from mezoamerica I don't necessarily think anyone would object as long as it is for the appropriate occasion.

I had an issue with people talking on a similar thread about the "sombrero mariachi". There's nothing wrong in wearing one, but there is a time and a place for it. I'd be hard pressed to find fault with someone who knows where and when to use a hat like that one. And so would most people.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Some may think it ok, some think it isn't.

Again, who are these 'some people' and why do they think that?

Some white people may think a black girl using the English language as cultural appropriation, after all it's not her ethnic back ground.

If she grew up speaking it or learned it earnestly then it's not appropriation.

[Killdash]

What about black girls who straighten their hair then? Is that frivolous?

Which culture are they appropriating by straightening their hair?

What culture does Brittany appropriate when she puts in dreads? Obviously there's no biological reason not to, because it can happen. Same with straightening. There's no obvious reason why one can't do it, and no reason to suspect it wasn't done at some stage. So why make a thing of it?

I'll give a better example, it stems from personal life in SA, which gives a very good view on culture clashes. I know some Zulu girls. And they are Zulu girls. Full on Zulu, they speak the language, do the traditions, own the traditional costumes and some would probably even identify as Zulu before South African. Yet, when I run into them, they're wearing American or European designed clothes. What does this mean? Is it frivolous to wear them? After all, they do own traditional costumes, and they love their culture. One could hardly call them "assimilators". So what's the deal?

[Chessmistress]

I mean, there is a very palpable difference between just talking in English and mocking people for speaking English with an British accent.

One is fine, the other one is insulting.

Have you ever heard expressions like "you're torturing the English language?" (or something similar)
That is sometimes applied to foreigners learning a new language, by the locals.
As long as the society isn't hypersensible about such matters, it'll remain a joke.
But if society will become hypersensible to such matters, then some people could begin getting offensed by people "abusing/torturing our language".

It's just a little example.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Some may think it ok, some think it isn't.

Again, who are these 'some people' and why do they think that?

Some white people may think a black girl using the English language as cultural appropriation, after all it's not her ethnic back ground.

If she grew up speaking it or learned it earnestly then it's not appropriation.

Well, "who are the people and why do they think like that", I can apply that too your argument, what is and isn't offensive is subjective.

[Minzerland II]

Some may think it ok, some think it isn't.

Again, who are these 'some people' and why do they think that?

Some white people may think a black girl using the English language as cultural appropriation, after all it's not her ethnic back ground.

If she grew up speaking it or learned it earnestly then it's not appropriation.

Why isn't it?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I mean, there is a very palpable difference between just talking in English and mocking people for speaking English with an British accent.

One is fine, the other one is insulting.

Have you ever heard expressions like "you're torturing the English language?" (or something similar)
That is sometimes applied to foreigners learning a new language, by the locals.
As long as the society isn't hypersensible about such matters, it'll remain a joke.
But if society will become hypersensible to such matters, then some people could begin getting offensed by people "abusing/torturing our language".

It's just a little example.

Let's just say I've heard worse stuff directed at me, and not as a joke.

[Killdash]

A more serious example. King Goodwill Zwelithini of the Zulu recently accused the government of axing Zulu culture when the government ruled that "virgin testing" or "hymen testing" actually, is not a medically sound way to do things, and therefore, it's wrong to use it as qualification into school bursaries for the area.

That's the attack, and you can easily see how it looks like an "attack on culture". But it isn't. Because virgin testing doesn't work, and denying people bursaries because of it is wrong.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

What culture does Brittany appropriate when she puts in dreads? Obviously there's no biological reason not to, because it can happen. Same with straightening. There's no obvious reason why one can't do it, and no reason to suspect it wasn't done at some stage. So why make a thing of it?

Dreadlocks are cultural symbols associated with the Rastafari and other African cultures, for example.

I'll give a better example, it stems from personal life in SA, which gives a very good view on culture clashes. I know some Zulu girls. And they are Zulu girls. Full on Zulu, they speak the language, do the traditions, own the traditional costumes and some would probably even identify as Zulu before South African. Yet, when I run into them, they're wearing American or European designed clothes. What does this mean? Is it frivolous to wear them? After all, they do own traditional costumes, and they love their culture. One could hardly call them "assimilators". So what's the deal?

It's not frivolous because they like the clothes and wear them as a symbol of their own engagement with Western culture. That's respectful.

Well, "who are the people and why do they think like that", I can apply that too your argument,

No, because I can go and point to actual Polynesian people who think it's offensive, and your English people live only in your head.

what is and isn't offensive is subjective.

Yep. And that's for people of that culture to decide amongst themselves.

Why isn't it?

Because it has everything to do with the way you approach interacting with the culture. If you do it with respect and an earnest intention of engaging with it it's not appropriative.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

What culture does Brittany appropriate when she puts in dreads? Obviously there's no biological reason not to, because it can happen. Same with straightening. There's no obvious reason why one can't do it, and no reason to suspect it wasn't done at some stage. So why make a thing of it?

Dreadlocks are cultural symbols associated with the Rastafari and other African cultures, for example.

I'll give a better example, it stems from personal life in SA, which gives a very good view on culture clashes. I know some Zulu girls. And they are Zulu girls. Full on Zulu, they speak the language, do the traditions, own the traditional costumes and some would probably even identify as Zulu before South African. Yet, when I run into them, they're wearing American or European designed clothes. What does this mean? Is it frivolous to wear them? After all, they do own traditional costumes, and they love their culture. One could hardly call them "assimilators". So what's the deal?

It's not frivolous because they like the clothes and wear them as a symbol of their own engagement with Western culture. That's respectful.

Well, "who are the people and why do they think like that", I can apply that too your argument,

No, because I can go and point to actual Polynesian people who think it's offensive, and your English people live only in your head.

what is and isn't offensive is subjective.

Yep. And that's for people of that culture to decide amongst themselves.

Why isn't it?

Because it has everything to do with the way you approach interacting with the culture. If you do it with respect and an earnest intention of engaging with it it's not appropriative.

I could point out numeral people that think a black woman using English as cultural appropriation.

[Chessmistress]

Let's just say I've heard worse stuff directed at me, and not as a joke.

I'm sorry, I hope such things have ceased now.
Something similar happened even to me, but it was more or less a joke.
Funny thing: it happened in a country with less HDI (Human Development Index) than mine country of origin.
Way less.