Right Wing Discussion Thread The Fourth

[Aelex]

France is guilty of a genocide against germans that whiped out mass ammounts of their population. But ya, lets only talk about the holocaust.

Pitting Germans against slightly more icey Germans isn't a genocide. We weren't the ones that did the killing and the raping, only the ones that ensured that no side managed to achieve a decisive victory over the other quickly.

[The East Marches]

Cardinal Richelieu would be rolling in his grave at the missed opportunity to embroil South German and North German in a longer war. Besides, where is French catholic pride or brotherly attitude?

The French propensity for adultery extends to the international sphere.

Further reinforcing my thought that the French may be the most degenerate in Europe.

But also somehow the superpower losing when it wins. What a strange land.

Like a year ago I was working on a French-Themed parody a Warrior Song: Hard Corps. Wrote a bunch a verses n shit but I can't find it now.

You should post it for the enjoyment of M. Aelex.

Cardinal Richelieu would be rolling in his grave at the missed opportunity to embroil South German and North German in a longer war. Besides, where is French catholic pride or brotherly attitude?

Louis XIII had the chance to have a good advisor in his person. Napoléon III, well, let's say that his own advisors were not to his level.
As for them, they're gone as soon as we're talking about restoring the "Natural Borders". Everything West of the Rhine is our, Germans can do what they want on their own side.

It's that sort of attitude that let's old Hans think he can pull one over on you. What happened to the Bonapartist dream?

[Aelex]

But also somehow the superpower losing when it wins. What a strange land.

Well, if you look at it this way, in the millenary and couple of centuries we existed, not only did we managed to slowly but steadily increase our land and power but we also managed to keep them despite unfavorable odds.
Even today, we might not be World Dominators as we used to be but we're far from being irrelevant and it ain't going to change any time soon.

[The East Marches]

But also somehow the superpower losing when it wins. What a strange land.

Well, if you look at it this way, in the millenary and couple of centuries we existed, not only did we managed to slowly but steadily increase our land and power but we also managed to keep them despite unfavorable odds.
Even today, we might not be World Dominators as we used to be but we're far from being irrelevant and it ain't going to change any time soon.

That's why you had to ask Uncle Sam for spare parts, bombs and fuel when you went to Libya right? :^)

Very relevant indeed

[Aelex]

That's why you had to ask Uncle Sam for spare parts, bombs and fuel when you went to Libya right? :^)

Very relevant indeed

Why pay for shit when we can get it for free?
Also that's why you get all cranky and threw a tantrum as soon as we refused to back you up in Irak, right? :^)

Very irrelevant indeed

[Uxupox]

These parties all suck.

[Sanctissima]

France is guilty of a genocide against germans that whiped out mass ammounts of their population. But ya, lets only talk about the holocaust.

Pitting Germans against slightly more icey Germans isn't a genocide. We weren't the ones that did the killing and the raping, only the ones that ensured that no side managed to achieve a decisive victory over the other quickly.

Oh please, everyone had a hand in raping Germany during the Thirty Years' War, France included. Richelieu hired mercenaries galore to do the dirty work, and contributed quite a bit in wiping out a third of the German population. Sure, genocide wasn't the objective of the war, but French soldiers and mercenaries alike certainly showed no qualms in raping women, slitting throats, hanging peasants by the tree-load (yes, that was a thing), sacking towns and burning whole villages to the ground.

[-Harley-Quinn-]

France is guilty of a genocide against germans that whiped out mass ammounts of their population. But ya, lets only talk about the holocaust.

Pitting Germans against slightly more icey Germans isn't a genocide. We weren't the ones that did the killing and the raping, only the ones that ensured that no side managed to achieve a decisive victory over the other quickly.

Keep telling yerself that

Like a year ago I was working on a French-Themed parody a Warrior Song: Hard Corps. Wrote a bunch a verses n shit but I can't find it now.

You should post it for the enjoyment of M. Aelex.

I'll get around ta re-writing it.

[-Harley-Quinn-]

That's why you had to ask Uncle Sam for spare parts, bombs and fuel when you went to Libya right? :^)

Very relevant indeed

Why pay for shit when we can get it for free?
Also that's why you get all cranky and threw a tantrum as soon as we refused to back you up in Irak, right? :^)

Very irrelevant indeed

I mean, generally when ya invest a lotta shit in a country, then they go full "HA FUCK YOU!" its kinda normal ta get pissed off.

[Neanderthaland]

Why pay for shit when we can get it for free?
Also that's why you get all cranky and threw a tantrum as soon as we refused to back you up in Irak, right? :^)

Very irrelevant indeed

I mean, generally when ya invest a lotta shit in a country, then they go full "HA FUCK YOU!" its kinda normal ta get pissed off.

Well, at least they can still kick Greenpeace's ass.

[Aelex]

Further reinforcing my thought that the French may be the most degenerate in Europe.

Nah, we just assume our actions and sexuality. You don't want to know what the Boches hide in their basements nor what the Anglos are doing with trannies in cheap motels rooms, both of them are the true degenerates of Europe.

[The East Marches]

That's why you had to ask Uncle Sam for spare parts, bombs and fuel when you went to Libya right? :^)

Very relevant indeed

Why pay for shit when we can get it for free?
Also that's why you get all cranky and threw a tantrum as soon as we refused to back you up in Irak, right? :^)

Very irrelevant indeed

haha yes indeed, well played. You deserve a golf clap for that one.

Further reinforcing my thought that the French may be the most degenerate in Europe.

Nah, we just assume our actions and sexuality. You don't want to know what the Boches hide in their basements nor what the Anglos are doing with trannies in cheap motels rooms, both of them are the true degenerates of Europe.

Excuse me sir, good Anglos don't shit where they eat. Not to mention we'd never engage in such degeneracy. However, Fritzl references are indeed correct for our German friends.

[Sanctissima]

Why pay for shit when we can get it for free?
Also that's why you get all cranky and threw a tantrum as soon as we refused to back you up in Irak, right? :^)

Very irrelevant indeed

I mean, generally when ya invest a lotta shit in a country, then they go full "HA FUCK YOU!" its kinda normal ta get pissed off.

Eh, it's been pretty typical behaviour ever since DeGaulle got a hold of the country by its balls. Since then, France has had a pretty major problem with showing gratitude.

[Napkiraly]

The French propensity for adultery extends to the international sphere.

Further reinforcing my thought that the French may be the most degenerate in Europe.

Oh definitely. The Italians, Spanish, and Portuguese certainly try giving them a run for their money though.

[-Harley-Quinn-]

I mean, generally when ya invest a lotta shit in a country, then they go full "HA FUCK YOU!" its kinda normal ta get pissed off.

Eh, it's been pretty typical behaviour ever since DeGaulle got a hold of the country by its balls. Since then, France has had a pretty major problem with showing gratitude.

Words cannot describe how much I fucking hate DeGaulle.

Further reinforcing my thought that the French may be the most degenerate in Europe.

Nah, we just assume our actions and sexuality. You don't want to know what the Boches hide in their basements nor what the Anglos are doing with trannies in cheap motels rooms, both of them are the true degenerates of Europe.

Fucking women isn't exclusive to British men. It is, however, something French men never got the hang of.

[The East Marches]

I mean, generally when ya invest a lotta shit in a country, then they go full "HA FUCK YOU!" its kinda normal ta get pissed off.

Well, at least they can still kick Greenpeace's ass.

I gotta admit that was pretty based. Hippies are cancer.

[Neanderthaland]

Well, at least they can still kick Greenpeace's ass.

I gotta admit that was pretty based. Hippies are cancer.

The real cancer are people who describe others as "cancer."

You want to talk about "degenerate," that's the most degenerate form of argument there is.



But yes. It was.

[Aelex]

Eh, it's been pretty typical behaviour ever since DeGaulle got a hold of the country by its balls. Since then, France has had a pretty major problem with showing gratitude.

Ho for fuck sake, we're grateful for your help and we never denied nor downplayed it. That don't mean, however, that we should act obsequiously to you for the rest of our existence.
Also, we too did also invested a lot in helping you to exist as a country two centuries ago. Do you see us constantly bringing that up?

[Napkiraly]

I gotta admit that was pretty based. Hippies are cancer.

The real cancer are people who describe others as "cancer."

You want to talk about "degenerate," that's the most degenerate form of argument there is.



But yes. It was.

Actually the truly degenerate thing is to say that calling people degenerate is the degenerate thing. Degenerateception.

[The East Marches]

I gotta admit that was pretty based. Hippies are cancer.

The real cancer are people who describe others as "cancer."

You want to talk about "degenerate," that's the most degenerate form of argument there is.



But yes. It was.

The most degenerate form of arguement is "muh sp00ks". Cancer is merely communicating disapproval of an idea via Internet speak. Nothing wrong with that unless we are going to ban memes. Which would be very cancerous indeed.

[The East Marches]

Eh, it's been pretty typical behaviour ever since DeGaulle got a hold of the country by its balls. Since then, France has had a pretty major problem with showing gratitude.

Ho for fuck sake, we're grateful for your help and we never denied nor downplayed it. That don't mean, however, that we should act obsequiously to you for the rest of our existence.
Also, we too did also invested a lot in helping you to exist as a country two centuries ago. Do you see us constantly bringing that up?

The first rescue in the First World War cancels that out

[Neanderthaland]

Eh, it's been pretty typical behaviour ever since DeGaulle got a hold of the country by its balls. Since then, France has had a pretty major problem with showing gratitude.

Ho for fuck sake, we're grateful for your help and we never denied nor downplayed it. That don't mean, however, that we should act obsequiously to you for the rest of our existence.
Also, we too did also invested a lot in helping you to exist as a country two centuries ago. Do you see us constantly bringing that up?

It's not like it's a one way thing either.

I've run into a British guy who didn't even know France was in the Crimean War. Twice. And if it wasn't for French competence, all those British soldiers would have gotten killed.

[Dagashi Shojo]

> when the Teutonic rabble start ganging up on the Latin masters of this thread.

[Even Less of Mackonia]

What kind of egoist talks about "authentic" and "inauthentic" desires? Honour is the victory of fools and authenticity is the honour of cowards. Just admit that you just like appropriating the language and imagery of egoism to try and match the omniedginess of the right-wing and it doesn't work because you've based your identity on a 19th century heresy of Pietism largely embraced by the sorts of people who backed Prohibition and "keeping obscentity out o'dem picture 'ouses".

If we're being fair Mack, an Egoist isn't obligated to be selfish and maximize wealth/power/prestige if not being "selfish" in that way selfishly amuses him.

That's what I'm saying. He's the one adding conditionals to egoism. Nowhere (in that post at least) did I say helping others from egoism is somehow less egoistic than buying a yacht - but he is claiming the inverse. I've explicitly said somewhere or other that you can still spend your life volunteering to wipe the faeces of obese transvestites for free if that happens to amuse your egoism. I'm not going to stop you.

---

Well no, given that they're all dead, I'm quite glad I haven't. Novatore was just some dumb tramp who sucked off dogs for quavers and got rekt by based Benito (who was a far better embodiment of a good Egoist - Gentile's work should just be considered propaganda useful after the seizure of power). There's absolutely nothing original about anything he said or wrote or did which can't be tracked down to Stirner or Nietzsche or Ibsen.

He also lived in a more egoistic way than Mussolini could ever have. I don't really care about how wrong-wingers like to view Mussolini in hindsight, as an "egoist", but how his actions reflect his own self-negation to higher ideals; "the state", "the nation", or any other spook.

Novatore lived and died following his own desires, rejecting every " theoretical, scientific or moral prison". Mussolini got used as a pinata for the failures of his ideology, and his piety in the face of it.

He was a failure, he had nothing new or interesting to say and got trodden on the moment his delinquency met a party prepared to stop it. If that was his desire, good for him, I'm just not very impressed by them. He didn't get very far pursuing it. Mussolini fulfilled his desires more effectively in comparison.

Stirner himself never endorses anything resembling the 'anarchism' propounded by Left-Anarchists and indeed I think his primary goal was epistemological - maybe ethical, but certainly not political.

[There are no "Left-Anarchists"; the only way someone could make this distinction is if they aren't an anarchist (like Bookchin), and haven't read a wide range of anarchist literature (like Bookchinites)...plain and simple. Stirner criticized the incessant moralism of anarchists of his day (Proudhon), alongside Marx, Engels, Bakunin and a number of others on the radical left which he associated with, because anarchism was young and hadn't really broken from liberalism at this point. In that sense, he isn't unique.

What is unique about Stirner is that he and Engels were almost entirely on the same page and really didn't see much contradiction between each others' ideas in the days of Die Freien. It was Marx, not Engels, who decided to rant and rave via The German Ideology about Stirner's ideas. This relationship, along with Stirner's Hegelian background and dialectical method, leads me to interpret his ideas as inherently political..

I just use the distinction to delineate from Libertarians because I don't particularly enjoy wasting my time listening to semantic infighting of ideologies.

To my knowledge, Engels was under the impression Stirner's egoism amounted to something along the lines of English Utilitarianism or other hedonic ideologies at the time, and was thus easily reconcilable with communism. Marx, being the superior mind, saw its true nature as hostile to his own project.

[One who understands that society affects the individual (and how the dominant ideology specifically can do so), and maintains a dialectical method like Stirner.

Self-negating egoism is the norm of egoist philosophy. It worships inauthentic desire and self-restriction masquerading as egoism, instead of putting emphasis on the individual as a "creative nothing" and the internal contradictions (the dialectics) of egoism put at odds with society.

That isn't really much of an answer until you explain what exactly it is about this funky dialectical method that validates your claim.

What I think it is you're saying at least, and do correct me if I'm wrong, is the old commodtitty-fetishism lark, that capitalism instils in people a desire for material objects or advancement or some other egoism which doesn't fall within limit of selfishness acceptable for our upper-middle class adolescent Bolsheviks. Just enough to justify dying your hair or snogging a boy when mummy doesn't want you to, but the teeniest bit too much and you end up realising all those anti-war marches were pretty stupid or that Donald Trump is a genius and we can't have that in this household! This problematic selfishness is forbidden and the work of wicked agents. Snark aside amirite?

There was going to be a longer reply here but it will come at some point or another.

And platitudes are a disguise for a lack of theoretical understanding. This is another reason why I abandoned anarcho-syndicalism.

My experience is that people who assume every criticism of their position is down to a lack of understanding on the part of the critic are not very secure in their beliefs. If I have misunderstood you or been unfair to your position, by all means enlighten me. As far as I can see you are just offering the standard leftist waiving away of egoism as just another trick of the demon capitalism against the perfectly moral Original Man, the most perfunctory of perfunctory liberal-bourgeois slogan "society and individual are interconnected!" and appeal to benefit of all=benefit of self. The point remains, "authenticity" as you are using the term is just a meaningless delineator of kosher egoism and your particular moral taboos, you could even say its "pure ideology", no different from a redfaced pastor delineating between good sex and bad sex, the anarcho-capitalist between the lawful, good violence deployed by his mercenaries to defend his property, and the nasty bad violence used by the heroic bureaucrat nationalising his factories, the liberal between the good happy freedom of two gays getting married and the nasty bad freedom of Uday Hussein feeding prostitutes to tigers. Congratulations! You have a morality, indeed the simplest and most primitive form thereof.

There's nothing egoistic about the right wing for me to appropriate. The lot of "egoistic" or "Nietzschean" rightists are narrow egoists (egoists in conflict with their own egoism) or involuntary egoists (ethical egoists, who follow their self interest because they "ought" to do so) through a through

Again, you are simply abusing a shoddy false consciousness argument to create a perfectly moralistic dichotomy where your egoism is good egoism but their egoism is bad egoism because taboos. What is this "true egoism? "In conflict with their own egoism" - the phrase suggests there is some kind of interest humans have beyond their own preferences which they must follow: that is almost a definition of morality.

Ah, I see. Because I use the same word to describe me politics as people from over a century ago who supported things I don't support, I am their equivalent. Clearly, there is no room for nuance.

Seems you've focused more on a strawman of what I believe, by associating me with moralistic anarchists I largely ignore.

No, it was moreso a description of historical function of the movement to which you belong (to defend traditional values against industrial civilisation), as that sentence was an attempt to say that you are tragically trying to lay priest at the wedding of two incompatible ideas, and therefore the description was aimed at those ideas, not your wedding of them, which is incompatible as a result of their incompatibility, not being accused of incompatibility itself.

Your entire post has effectively been a strawman. "No ur egoism ain't egoism because u actually only believe it because of reason x". I could just as well claim you are motivated by evolutionarily outdated herd survival-mechanisms of the human security system and thus are not really egoistic and don't need to be listened to. I don't as it would be a poor argument.

[-Harley-Quinn-]

Eh, it's been pretty typical behaviour ever since DeGaulle got a hold of the country by its balls. Since then, France has had a pretty major problem with showing gratitude.

Ho for fuck sake, we're grateful for your help and we never denied nor downplayed it. That don't mean, however, that we should act obsequiously to you for the rest of our existence.
Also, we too did also invested a lot in helping you to exist as a country two centuries ago. Do you see us constantly bringing that up?

Ya, actually. Like just now.