UK Politics Thread V: Upon This Blasted Heath

[Wolfmanne2]

Literally antisemitism denialism, after spending time denying that you were in denial of being an antisemite denialist.

i'm just going to repeat the question actually. can you show that the jewish community overwhelmingly thought labour has a serious anti-semitism issue before people like you deliberately started blowing up anti-semitism at every turn to try and slander them?

Continue denying antisemitism.

[Wolfmanne2]

Also, in the electoral poll it says 66.4% thought Jeremy Corbyn was doing a bad job at handling antisemitism. Even more overwhelming than his mandate.

Eighty-three per cent had said they were concerned by comments in which Mr Corbyn referred to terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah as "our friends".

Clearly as a whole there's been concern expressed by the Jewish community about the Labour Party under Corbyn's leadership. We have alienated the Jewish people and whilst I do not place the blame at Corbyn himself, I do blame him for presiding over this culture.

[Souseiseki]

i'm just going to repeat the question actually. can you show that the jewish community overwhelmingly thought labour has a serious anti-semitism issue before people like you deliberately started blowing up anti-semitism at every turn to try and slander them?

Continue denying antisemitism.

questioning the reliability of a poll showing people think labour is anti-semitic after a months long campaign designed to make people think labour is anti-semitic is not denying anti-semitism anymore than than questioning the reliability of of a poll showing people think crime is going up when it's actually going down after a years long campaign of selective reporting is denying crime

[Wolfmanne2]

Continue denying antisemitism.

questioning the reliability of a poll showing people think labour is anti-semitic after a months long campaign designed to make people think labour is anti-semitic is not denying anti-semitism anymore than than questioning the reliability of of a poll showing people think crime is going up when it's actually going down after a years long campaign of selective reporting is denying crime

So are you claiming that there has been a conspiracy by Jews in Labour to create a myth of antisemitism? That in itself is using an antisemitic trope.

People like Ruth Smeeth, Luciania Berger and John Mann etc are just crying wolf about antisemitism right? In a systematic manner to smear Corbyn?

[Vassenor]

OK, hold up.

How is saying "the issue as portrayed in the media is a case of them taking an extant but statistically insignificant problem and inflating it to be a smear against the party leadership" a denial of the existence of antisemitic attitudes within the party?

[Machtergreifung]

Question: had there been allegations of anti-Semitism in Labour prior to Corbyn taking over the leadership role?

[Tananat]

i explicitly mentioned jewish labour members and you decided to rave about pro-palestine leftists instead. did you actually read my post? the reference to israel/palestine was a reference to how certain israel supporters tend to disparage jewish people that disagree them as "self-hating" or how they tend to get ignored, like you did to them in my post actually.

Because they're a bunch of kapos.

This is so far beyond the line you left the line about three dimensions back.

[Souseiseki]

Also, in the electoral poll it says 66.4% thought Jeremy Corbyn was doing a bad job at handling antisemitism. Even more overwhelming than his mandate.

Eighty-three per cent had said they were concerned by comments in which Mr Corbyn referred to terrorist groups Hamas and Hezbollah as "our friends".

Clearly as a whole there's been concern expressed by the Jewish community about the Labour Party under Corbyn's leadership. We have alienated the Jewish people and whilst I do not place the blame at Corbyn himself, I do blame him for presiding over this culture.

and i blame you, in part, for turning anti-semitism into a political stick to beat corbyn with and trying to swing it every opportunity regardless of the actual merit of each case. you can make people believe flat out lies by repeating them enough, so do i know that a large portion of this scandal isn't actually you, as a person that has personally engaged in spin under the banner of "its just politics", and your "anything to fuck corbyn" friends making shit up and making mountains out of small to moderate hills?

questioning the reliability of a poll showing people think labour is anti-semitic after a months long campaign designed to make people think labour is anti-semitic is not denying anti-semitism anymore than than questioning the reliability of of a poll showing people think crime is going up when it's actually going down after a years long campaign of selective reporting is denying crime

So are you claiming that there has been a conspiracy by Jews in Labour to create a myth of antisemitism? That in itself is using an antisemitic trope.

fucking lol if you think the guy that unironcally fucking called jews kapos has any standing whatsoever to accuse me of invoking anti-semitic tropes

see above line

[Wolfmanne2]

Question: had there been allegations of anti-Semitism in Labour prior to Corbyn taking over the leadership role?

Yes, they have, but it is down to Corbyn to ensure that they are resolved. They haven't been resolved in a satisfactory manner.

[Ifreann]

i'm just going to repeat the question actually. can you show that the jewish community overwhelmingly thought labour has a serious anti-semitism issue before people like you deliberately started blowing up anti-semitism at every turn to try and slander them?

Continue denying antisemitism.

I see you ascribe to the "anti-Semitic until proven innocent" theory of identifying anti-Semitism.

[Wolfmanne2]

Also, in the electoral poll it says 66.4% thought Jeremy Corbyn was doing a bad job at handling antisemitism. Even more overwhelming than his mandate.


Clearly as a whole there's been concern expressed by the Jewish community about the Labour Party under Corbyn's leadership. We have alienated the Jewish people and whilst I do not place the blame at Corbyn himself, I do blame him for presiding over this culture.

and i blame you, in part, for turning anti-semitism into a political stick to beat corbyn with and trying to swing it every opportunity regardless of the actual merit of each case. you can make people believe flat out lies by repeating them enough, so do i know that a large portion of this scandal isn't actually you, as a person that has personally engaged in spin under the banner of "its just politics", and your "anything to fuck corbyn" friends making shit up and making mountains out of small to moderate hills?

Is it my fault that Corbyn associates with people like Jackie Walker and even tolerates them?

So are you claiming that there has been a conspiracy by Jews in Labour to create a myth of antisemitism? That in itself is using an antisemitic trope.

fucking lol if you think the guy that unironcally fucking called jews kapos has any standing whatsoever to talk about anything like that ever again

see above line

Self-hating, Anti-Zionist Jews are often referred to as Kapos by some Jews. No different from black activists using the phrase 'Uncle Tom', which you would be fine with.

[Wolfmanne2]

And I don't do spin. I have always believed in 'straight talking, honest politics', as I respect the mandate.

[Philjia]

And I don't do spin. I have always believed in 'straight talking, honest politics', as I respect the mandate.

"Straight talking, honest politics" is a euphemism for "the same old lies, but this time I'm holding a pint".

[Souseiseki]

Is it my fault that Corbyn associates with people like Jackie Walker and even tolerates them?

this would carry a lot more weight if you weren't going to get buddy buddy with saudi arabia as soon as you got in office. it also does not really counter the claims that you are using it as a stick to beat corbyn and deliberately exaggerating the scale of the problem.

Self-hating, Anti-Zionist Jews are often referred to as Kapos by some Jews. No different from black activists using the phrase 'Uncle Tom', which you would be fine with.

if we're really playing this game then you should know the difference between a black activist calling other black activists an uncle tom and a non-jewish person calling jews holocaust extermination camp attendants.

[Souseiseki]

And I don't do spin. I have always believed in 'straight talking, honest politics', as I respect the mandate.

sure you do

[Ifreann]

And I don't do spin. I have always believed in 'straight talking, honest politics', as I respect the mandate.

"Straight talking, honest politics" is a euphemism for "the same old lies, but this time I'm holding a pint".

I am very respectful towards the mandate.
*sip*

[Wolfmanne2]

Is it my fault that Corbyn associates with people like Jackie Walker and even tolerates them?

this would carry a lot more weight if you weren't going to get buddy buddy with saudi arabia as soon as you got in office. it also does not really counter the claims that you are using it as a stick to beat corbyn and deliberately exaggerating the scale of the problem.

I am actually very strongly opposed to the Saudi state as a matter of principle and it's not something I want the party to compromise on.

The idea that the Liberals need to go through with the arms deal for some bullshit "credibility" is a cop-out. It doesnt matter who authored it before, it matters who is going through with it now. People are dying. Being killed by an oppressive regime that seeks to dominate the region. Why the fuck should we help them?

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Merizoc. I do care about about arming a state where many in their elites have funded Al-Qaeda and Daesh and have promoted the deplorable ideology of Wahhabism. Add to the numerous human rights violations committed against their own people and what any Western state should be doing is putting pressure on them, not propping them up. Oil prices are at an all-time low; now is the time for the West to strangle Saudi Arabia until the pips squeak.

Example from the Canadian politics thread.

Self-hating, Anti-Zionist Jews are often referred to as Kapos by some Jews. No different from black activists using the phrase 'Uncle Tom', which you would be fine with.

if we're really playing this game then you should know the difference between a black activist calling other black activists an uncle tom and a non-jewish person calling jews holocaust extermination camp attendants.

It's something used by Jewish people annoyed at Anti-Zionists - I agree with those Jews who regard Anti-Zionist Jews as kapos.

[The Nihilistic view]

The best thing about being in the Tory party is you don't get crucified because you don't think Israel is that great.

[Philjia]

The best thing about being in the Tory party is you don't get crucified because you don't think Israel is that great.

You're allowed, you're the ones who had the Jewish leader.

In the 19th century mind, but it did happen.

[Wolfmanne2]

The best thing about being in the Tory party is you don't get crucified because you don't think Israel is that great.

You're allowed, you're the ones who had the Jewish leader.

In the 19th century mind, but it did happen.

Michael Howard was Jewish you know.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Question: had there been allegations of anti-Semitism in Labour prior to Corbyn taking over the leadership role?

Not on anything like the current scale. Which is weird, because Ed Miliband was Jewish. You'd think the rabidly anti-semitic masses within the party might have had something to say about that but, as it turns out, no. Granted, Ed Miliband got a lot of flak from the membership, but it was mainly for not being his equally Jewish brother.

[Ifreann]

The best thing about being in the Tory party is you don't get crucified because you don't think Israel is that great.

Faint praise for your party, chief.

[Salandriagado]

are you fucking serious

Whenever you ask this to me do I ever follow-up with 'no, I was only kidding Sous to get you to say that'?

When Jewish people who want the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world that exists to act as a refuge to antisemitism and ignore the viewpoint of the ultramajority of Jews who support Israel, what else are they? The defence of 'I am a Jew who hates Israel' is the same as 'I am a black person who supports Jim Crow'.

... No, it isn't. Disliking a state that does some severely shady shit while claiming to represent you is in no way the same thing as supporting directly discriminatory laws. At all.

[Wolfmanne2]

Whenever you ask this to me do I ever follow-up with 'no, I was only kidding Sous to get you to say that'?

When Jewish people who want the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world that exists to act as a refuge to antisemitism and ignore the viewpoint of the ultramajority of Jews who support Israel, what else are they? The defence of 'I am a Jew who hates Israel' is the same as 'I am a black person who supports Jim Crow'.

... No, it isn't. Disliking a state that does some severely shady shit while claiming to represent you is in no way the same thing as supporting directly discriminatory laws. At all.

More than 90% of British Jews identify with Israel. You have to remember that Israel is a state that is a refuge from antisemitism - going against the Zionist idea that Jews should have a state to act as a refuge from antisemitism is basically saying that the Jewish people should be diaspora subjects to the potential or existing oppression of the majority of whatever their host country is. You can be critical of Israeli government policies - many Jews and pro-Israel Zionists such as myself are - but you can't question Israel's right to exist, delegitimise it, treat it with double standards or view the nation-state as evil in totality for instance.

I refer you to W.E.B. Du Bois on the similarity between the civil rights movement and Zionism, a hero of mine being a BAME person: “The African movement means to us what the Zionist movement must mean to the Jews, the centralization of race effort and the recognition of a racial fount”.

And quite frankly, I am at the point where a significant minority if not a majority of anti-zionists are antisemitic. The ones most vocal about it and make their pro-Palestinian activism define them basically are antisemitic for the most part.

[Imperializt Russia]

questioning the reliability of a poll showing people think labour is anti-semitic after a months long campaign designed to make people think labour is anti-semitic is not denying anti-semitism anymore than than questioning the reliability of of a poll showing people think crime is going up when it's actually going down after a years long campaign of selective reporting is denying crime

So are you claiming that there has been a conspiracy by Jews in Labour to create a myth of antisemitism? That in itself is using an antisemitic trope.

People like Ruth Smeeth, Luciania Berger and John Mann etc are just crying wolf about antisemitism right? In a systematic manner to smear Corbyn?

Fucking stop.
Wolf.

Just fucking stop.
Take a night.

Come back tomorrow.
Then we can look at answering the question posed. Aye?