Should We Really Encourage Everyone To Vote?

[Freefall11111]

I have no understanding of economics whatsoever

The fact you're aware of this already puts you ahead of the vast majority of the electorate. Congratulations.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I have no understanding of economics whatsoever

I suspect that you've spent enough time here to pick up a basic understanding of a few viewpoints, even if you haven't nailed down an actual set of beliefs of your own yet.

[Freefall11111]

Because if you are truly unable to see a difference between the candidates, then I don't trust your ability to make a fully informed decision. You're seeing black and black instead of black and white, or even the black and gray that I see. That's fine. It's an opinion that you've come to on your own. However, I'm also good with the idea that someone who isn't able to see even a sliver of difference between the candidates on major issues isn't going to take that type of reasoning into the voting booth.

So you're saying I'm politically inept/incompetent at making an informed vote simply because I see both parties as total shit that in practice are not all that different?

If you think both US parties are the same, you're uninformed, yes.

[Internationalist Bastard]

What I'm saying is I view all the candidates as way too wrong for me to be comfortable voting for them.

One's almost always going to be more wrong than another, even if it's by just a few degrees. If you're not comfortable with negotiating shades of gray, though, then I'm good with you leaving it up to people who are.

I see the shades of grey, but when every candidate is saying they will actively go against my core beliefs, I'm not going to vote for them.

[Pandeeria]

What I'm saying is I view all the candidates as way too wrong for me to be comfortable voting for them.

One's almost always going to be more wrong than another, even if it's by just a few degrees. If you're not comfortable with negotiating shades of gray, though, then I'm good with you leaving it up to people who are.

How about instead of passively-aggressively dismissing their point as "not being comfortable with negotiating with shades of gray" maybe you should perhaps consider that both options are equally terrible and are not worth the vote?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Because if you are truly unable to see a difference between the candidates, then I don't trust your ability to make a fully informed decision. You're seeing black and black instead of black and white, or even the black and gray that I see. That's fine. It's an opinion that you've come to on your own. However, I'm also good with the idea that someone who isn't able to see even a sliver of difference between the candidates on major issues isn't going to take that type of reasoning into the voting booth.

So you're saying I'm politically inept/incompetent at making an informed vote simply because I see both parties as total shit that in practice are not all that different?

Those aren't the words that I'd use, no. I simply think that you're wrong, and I'm fine with you not bringing that belief into the voting booth.

[Valonde]

The status quo won't change overnight. But if you want the third party to win then shouldn't you vote anyway? True the likelihood of them winning is improbable, but do you really think it's best for folks who don't see a way out to just roll over and die so to speak?

Voting for third parties isn't going to change the status quo. It will be through long periods of time, changing political and social trends, and changes in major political realignment that a third party will have a chance at winning.

This can only happen through time. You could perhaps speed it up slightly by going out and campaigning for third parties, telling the people about why the two major parties suck and third party X is the best. That will change things. But just going out once every 4 years to vote for a third party candidate and then never really talking about it again until next election is pretty much the same as not voting at all. It doesn't matter if you don't vote or if you vote third party.

The act of the vote does not matter right now. The act of spreading awareness about better alternatives, and the act of allowing time to slowly erode the ruling two parties is of utmost importance.

All true. I made the assumption if a person is voting third party then they would also be spreading awareness of the party. I never meant to imply that a person's sole active role in politics is to go every four years and vote for the least likely guy to win and that would change things. I meant be active in whatever role you can be.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

One's almost always going to be more wrong than another, even if it's by just a few degrees. If you're not comfortable with negotiating shades of gray, though, then I'm good with you leaving it up to people who are.

I see the shades of grey, but when every candidate is saying they will actively go against my core beliefs, I'm not going to vote for them.

One may go against your core beliefs less than another. Without knowing said beliefs, I couldn't tell you.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

One's almost always going to be more wrong than another, even if it's by just a few degrees. If you're not comfortable with negotiating shades of gray, though, then I'm good with you leaving it up to people who are.

How about instead of passively-aggressively dismissing their point as "not being comfortable with negotiating with shades of gray" maybe you should perhaps consider that both options are equally terrible and are not worth the vote?

I admit to dismissing the point, but only because it's one that I've already considered quite carefully.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I see the shades of grey, but when every candidate is saying they will actively go against my core beliefs, I'm not going to vote for them.

One may go against your core beliefs less than another. Without knowing said beliefs, I couldn't tell you.

Pro UN, Pro Intervention, Pro Federations, Pro Free Trade, Pro Capitalism, Anti Nationalism.
Every candidate attacks at least one of those things, hence, it wouldn't sit right with me to vote for any of them

[Pandeeria]

So you're saying I'm politically inept/incompetent at making an informed vote simply because I see both parties as total shit that in practice are not all that different?

If you think both US parties are the same, you're uninformed, yes.

How? They both cater to business and special group's interests, both of them want to keep the same state of affairs going, only that one wants a tad bit more business regulation (though not enough to hurt their bottom line) and the other is more socially conservative.

They are not the same in the sense that their platforms (though they are similar then the American us-versus-them mentality would have you believe, quite close on the political spectrum), but in the sense that neither party will meaningfully change the status quo of our present situation in any meaningful way, or in a disable amount of time. The same system of the rich getting richer while the poor but only lose what little wealth they have, the system of having welfare and disability and pensions, the system of being able to marry or not marry who you love, being able to own certain guns or not, all of this will not change much. There will be differences, and distinct differences at that, but the core of each issue and each system, will stay where it is.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

One may go against your core beliefs less than another. Without knowing said beliefs, I couldn't tell you.

Pro UN, Pro Intervention, Pro Federations, Pro Free Trade, Pro Capitalism, Anti Nationalism.
Every candidate attacks at least one of those things, hence, it wouldn't sit right with me to vote for any of them

I see the problem. And you're not ready to prioritize one over the other?

[Internationalist Bastard]

Pro UN, Pro Intervention, Pro Federations, Pro Free Trade, Pro Capitalism, Anti Nationalism.
Every candidate attacks at least one of those things, hence, it wouldn't sit right with me to vote for any of them

I see the problem. And you're not ready to prioritize one over the other?

I would, but the one I prioritize is like, a universal evil to everyone

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I see the problem. And you're not ready to prioritize one over the other?

I would, but the one I prioritize is like, a universal evil to everyone

Free Trade?

[Pandeeria]

Pro UN, Pro Intervention, Pro Federations, Pro Free Trade, Pro Capitalism, Anti Nationalism.
Every candidate attacks at least one of those things, hence, it wouldn't sit right with me to vote for any of them

I see the problem. And you're not ready to prioritize one over the other?

Why would you want to give the power of a vote to a Party that doesn't support your interests?

[Internationalist Bastard]

I would, but the one I prioritize is like, a universal evil to everyone

Free Trade?

The UN

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Free Trade?

The UN

One candidate is much more UN-friendly than the other.

[Internationalist Bastard]

The UN

One candidate is much more UN-friendly than the other.

Oh I'm sure. They support till we ask for the resources to do our jobs, then we're evil fascists

[Yumyumsuppertime]

One candidate is much more UN-friendly than the other.

Oh I'm sure. They support till we ask for the resources to do our jobs, then we're evil fascists

One is more likely to pony up resources than the other.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Oh I'm sure. They support till we ask for the resources to do our jobs, then we're evil fascists

One is more likely to pony up resources than the other.

Look we're digressing, my point is, I'm a cynical bastard

[USS Monitor]

I don't necessarily think everyone should vote, but we should make a distinction between people that are uninformed and people that are just jaded. There are people that know who the candidates are enough to formulate an opinion, but just feel like their vote doesn't matter. Those people should be prodded to vote so they can have their opinion counted. People that don't even know what's going on may as well stay home.

I think that if you're fully informed, and still jaded, then you're not actually fully informed.

Or you have an ideology that's just really poorly represented by the parties that make the ballot in your state.

[Marcurix]

I would have to agree with the OP, and it's a major reason as to why I oppose mandatory voting.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

One is more likely to pony up resources than the other.

Look we're digressing, my point is, I'm a cynical bastard

Which is fine. I'm not going to try to convince you to vote. I'm simply curious about your reasoning.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I think that if you're fully informed, and still jaded, then you're not actually fully informed.

Or you have an ideology that's just really poorly represented by the parties that make the ballot in your state.

At which point you can take a look at what's available, and decide which one is least intolerable.

[Pandeeria]

I think that if you're fully informed, and still jaded, then you're not actually fully informed.

Or you have an ideology that's just really poorly represented by the parties that make the ballot in your state.

Hush, the OP cannot fathom the all-so blasphemous notion that maybe all the parties on your ballot suck (in accordance with your views) and are not worth a vote from you.