NATION

PASSWORD

Should We Really Encourage Everyone To Vote?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Ngelmish
Minister
 
Posts: 3072
Founded: Dec 06, 2009
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ngelmish » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:39 pm

I swing both ways on this question. Intellectually and ethically speaking I approve of democratizing trends, and that includes the voting population actually voting. However I do share a lot the OP's concerns about the quality of the voting, whether or not people know enough of what they're talking about to make a coherent decision, whether or not increased participation also increases anti-professional attitudes towards government and politicians, etc.

Ultimately I'm probably a hypocrite. As with all political outcomes, I'm most inclined to less critically accept it when the political zeitgeist is also in step with my own opinions.

User avatar
USS Monitor
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 30755
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby USS Monitor » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:43 pm

Novus America wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
And ballot questions. I like ballot questions.


True, those too. Lots of county ballot questions will be on my ballot. Plus many states and localities will have interesting questions. It is nice to pick my own options rather than some party hack I disagree with half of the time. I disagree with all parties on certain things. I like to make my own decisions.


We've had ones about dog racing, assisted suicide, decriminalizing marijuana, and a proposal to abolish state income tax. I don't know yet what issues we are going to get this year.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
19th century steamships may be harmful or fatal if swallowed. In case of accidental ingestion, please seek immediate medical assistance.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:44 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Novus America wrote:
True, those too. Lots of county ballot questions will be on my ballot. Plus many states and localities will have interesting questions. It is nice to pick my own options rather than some party hack I disagree with half of the time. I disagree with all parties on certain things. I like to make my own decisions.


We've had ones about dog racing, assisted suicide, decriminalizing marijuana, and a proposal to abolish state income tax. I don't know yet what issues we are going to get this year.


You might be able to get a copy of the ballot online, with the questions for this year on it.
Last edited by Novus America on Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
USS Monitor
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 30755
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby USS Monitor » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:57 pm

Novus America wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
We've had ones about dog racing, assisted suicide, decriminalizing marijuana, and a proposal to abolish state income tax. I don't know yet what issues we are going to get this year.


You might be able to get a copy of the ballot online, with the questions for this year on it.


They usually send a mailing before the election with the ballot questions and registration deadlines and instructions on how to register.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
19th century steamships may be harmful or fatal if swallowed. In case of accidental ingestion, please seek immediate medical assistance.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:09 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Novus America wrote:
You might be able to get a copy of the ballot online, with the questions for this year on it.


They usually send a mailing before the election with the ballot questions and registration deadlines and instructions on how to register.


They do for me as well. But I often check ahead of time too. If I do not feel like waiting.
But either way works.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Skyviolia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 939
Founded: Sep 04, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Skyviolia » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:14 pm

We should encourage liberals to vote, we should also outrage more right wingers so they don't have the time to stop complaining and get out an vote.
Qui est-ce ?

User avatar
USS Monitor
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 30755
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby USS Monitor » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:15 pm

Skyviolia wrote:We should encourage liberals to vote, we should also outrage more right wingers so they don't have the time to stop complaining and get out an vote.


Outraging right-wingers doesn't keep them away from the polls.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
19th century steamships may be harmful or fatal if swallowed. In case of accidental ingestion, please seek immediate medical assistance.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

User avatar
Anollasia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25633
Founded: Apr 05, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Anollasia » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:19 pm

People often don't realize that they have power. We should remind them that voting is power.

User avatar
Omega America II
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1259
Founded: Apr 12, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Omega America II » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:40 pm

We should remind them that they can vote, but I don't think forcing everyone to vote would be a gold idea. It really doesn't matter that much to me what my next door neighbor votes, it really wouldn't bother me if they didn't vote.
Founder of the reestablished Union of Atlantic Nations

User avatar
Betoni
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1287
Founded: Apr 25, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Betoni » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 pm

I think it's a race between being better informed and being straight up lied to your face 24/7. The pendulum has been swinging recently. The mass media and social media has muddled the water to all kinds of swamps. But recently the campaigns seems to have kind of gathered themselves. I'm not saying that the media doesn't have a ticket on the races. But the third power seems to be in a fewer hands than before and that is certain to affect any elections.

It really depends on the campaign whether you want to encourage everyone to vote. From a spectators point of view and from an idealists point of view you kind of desecrate the idea of a democracy if you don't encourage everyone to vote. Keeping in mind that every democracy has restrictions on who has the right to vote.

User avatar
The Serbian Empire
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58107
Founded: Apr 18, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:29 pm

Valonde wrote:Yes, I think we should.

I think the problem lies more with the fact far too many people don't understand what voting actually is. What I mean is, so many people say 'my vote won't count'. To these people one little vote is not a game changer. But in reality one vote can actually change the course of history. What we need to do is educate.

Of course, if someone is going to vote whoever just to get it over with, then that person should not be voting.

Historically, few elections beyond the municipal level have such narrow margins that one vote is meaningful.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~ WOMAN
Level 12 Myrmidon, Level ⑨ Tsundere, Level ✿ Hold My Flower
Bad Idea Purveyor
8 Values: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=56.1&d=70.2&g=86.5&s=91.9
Political Compass: Economic -10.00 Authoritarian: -9.13
TG for Facebook if you want to friend me
Marissa, Goddess of Stratospheric Reach
preferred pronouns: Female ones
Primarily lesbian, but pansexual in nature

User avatar
Community Values
Minister
 
Posts: 2880
Founded: Nov 14, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Community Values » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:47 pm

People who know nothing about Trump but will still vote for him will most likely vote for him even if they were the most in touch with current events. Same for Hillary, and Johnson, and Stein. I don't believe being informed or not makes that much of a difference (unless you legitimately have no knowledge of the candidates, in which you won't vote anyways). It is and will always be about belief, not information.
"Corrupted by wealth and power, your government is like a restaurant with only one dish. They've got a set of Republican waiters on one side and a set of Democratic waiters on the other side. But no matter which set of waiters brings you the dish, the legislative grub is all prepared in the same Wall Street kitchen."
-Huey Long

User avatar
Krasny-Volny
Minister
 
Posts: 3200
Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Krasny-Volny » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:13 pm

On a national or state or even municipal level? Believe it or not I've known people who rarely voted in national elections but occasionally turned out to vote in local ones, especially in cases where they knew the candidate (I lived in a small, rural county BTW). And there were those who conversely, never voted except once every four years on the national level.

Then there are those people who vote once in a blue moon when they like that particular candidate. Most of my friends are like that. They're just extremely choosy. If they disagree with all the likely candidates even a little they don't bother.
Krastecexport. Cheap armaments for the budget minded, sold with discretion.

User avatar
Lalaki
Senator
 
Posts: 3676
Founded: May 11, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Lalaki » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:19 pm

Yes, people should be encouraged to vote.

Opinions count. The more opinions we have, the more democratic a society we form. The less opinions are heard, the less democratic society we cultivate. This is important.
Born again free market capitalist.

User avatar
Neo Bavaria
Envoy
 
Posts: 208
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Bavaria » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:22 pm

It matters less that we try to get people to vote, and more that we get them to be politically aware. And no, I don't mean "Watch more CNN", I mean encourage people to believe that researching and hunting through information to truly understand policy and a candidate's backstory. The world doesn't end at your doorstep, and it certainly doesn't end at the TV screen. Neither Bill O'Reilly nor Don Lemon are the be-all end-all of political knowledge.

User avatar
Lalaki
Senator
 
Posts: 3676
Founded: May 11, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Lalaki » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:32 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Novus America wrote:
And more than one election on the ballot.


And ballot questions. I like ballot questions.


Ballot questions can have far more direct impact than presidential races.

In Nevada, we're going to be voting on decriminalizing marijuana, universal background checks for guns, abolishing sales/use taxes on certain medical devices, and dismantling the monopoly that a state energy provider has built up for over 1.3 million residents. At the county level, we'll be voting on a sales tax increase to fund the construction of new schools and to repair existing ones (I actually work on the Yes campaign for this initiative).

I'm far more interested to discuss these issues and our city council/state legislature/school board candidates than the heartbreaking Clinton vs. Trump fiasco.
Born again free market capitalist.

User avatar
Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:51 pm

Lalaki wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
And ballot questions. I like ballot questions.


Ballot questions can have far more direct impact than presidential races.

In Nevada, we're going to be voting on decriminalizing marijuana, universal background checks for guns, abolishing sales/use taxes on certain medical devices, and dismantling the monopoly that a state energy provider has built up for over 1.3 million residents. At the county level, we'll be voting on a sales tax increase to fund the construction of new schools and to repair existing ones (I actually work on the Yes campaign for this initiative).

I'm far more interested to discuss these issues and our city council/state legislature/school board candidates than the heartbreaking Clinton vs. Trump fiasco.


Exactly. Why would someone in Nevada not vote on those important issues just because they hate both Clinton and Trump? I hate them both too. But the election is much more than just them.
Last edited by Novus America on Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

User avatar
Yumyumsuppertime
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 28799
Founded: Jun 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:12 pm

Lalaki wrote:Yes, people should be encouraged to vote.

Opinions count. The more opinions we have, the more democratic a society we form. The less opinions are heard, the less democratic society we cultivate. This is important.


Informed opinions count. Those with uninformed opinions shouldn't be dissuaded from voting, but I don't see the value in encouraging them to do so.

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58552
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:36 pm

No. We need to recognize that some people are not politically invested, and not shame them for not caring enough to devote time to learning about it. As is, all we're doing is encouraging a bunch of people to go out and vote based on nonsense.
It's a hobby/lifestyle to be politically active. It's absurd to think a hobby could be earnestly shared by a large majority of the population.

Unfortunately, it's in politicians interests to go out and push uninformed masses to the voting booths.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

User avatar
Novorobo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1776
Founded: Jan 12, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novorobo » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:56 pm

Even if you grant the premise that it's about apathy, I think what this ultimately boils down to is whether or not the vote of those currently apathetic is necessarily worse than everyone else's, which boils down to at least two further questions:

1. Will those presently apathetic continue to be if encouraged to make a decision on this matter?

2. If encouraged to make a decision on this matter, will that decision necessarily be worse than one motivated by being steeped in an ideological echo chamber?
Socialist Nordia wrote:Oh shit, let's hope we don't have to take in any /pol/ refugees.

User avatar
Valystria
Minister
 
Posts: 3183
Founded: Jul 29, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Valystria » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:00 pm

No.

Voting should only be for citizens who care enough about the electoral process to take part in it by their own initiative.

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21014
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:01 pm

I honestly have no problem with actively encouraging the people who would go just to cast a write-in vote for a joke candidate like Deez Nuts or Harambe to stay home so we can keep the line shorter for the people who actually take voting seriously.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
Yumyumsuppertime
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 28799
Founded: Jun 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:03 pm

Novorobo wrote:Even if you grant the premise that it's about apathy, I think what this ultimately boils down to is whether or not the vote of those currently apathetic is necessarily worse than everyone else's, which boils down to at least two further questions:

1. Will those presently apathetic continue to be if encouraged to make a decision on this matter?

2. If encouraged to make a decision on this matter, will that decision necessarily be worse than one motivated by being steeped in an ideological echo chamber?


1. I hope not.

2. No, but that's a different issue entirely.

User avatar
Soldati Senza Confini
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 86050
Founded: Mar 11, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:52 pm

I think we should.

Now, I do not mean GOTV efforts. I do mean, however, education since young, proper education, about how our government works.

Nowadays, there's very few people who actually understand at a basic level how government works, and what they are voting for. This, I believe, is what causes apathy or misinformation that a vote does not matter.
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

User avatar
USS Monitor
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 30755
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby USS Monitor » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:58 pm

Community Values wrote:People who know nothing about Trump but will still vote for him will most likely vote for him even if they were the most in touch with current events. Same for Hillary, and Johnson, and Stein. I don't believe being informed or not makes that much of a difference (unless you legitimately have no knowledge of the candidates, in which you won't vote anyways). It is and will always be about belief, not information.


People can change their minds when they learn more about the candidates.

My first impression of Bernie Sanders was that he was an addle-pated left-wing nut. Ended up really admiring him and voting for him in the Democratic primary once I got to know him better. I always thought he meant well; just took a while for him to convince me he was sane.

I liked Jill Stein at first glance, but the more I learn about her the more I think she's an addle-pated left-wing nut. Sort of the opposite of Sanders.

I talked shit about Gary Johnson when he was running for the Republican nomination in 2012. This year, I did some research on 3rd party options and decided Johnson was all right, but didn't realize at first that it was the same guy. Then after a month or two of following his campaign, I went, "Wait a minute... Is he that guy I was making fun of in 2012 because his campaign tanked?" And yeah, it is the same guy. I'm actually a little embarrassed about some of the stuff I said about him when I really didn't know what I was talking about. I just sort of assumed the worst because he was a Republican.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
19th century steamships may be harmful or fatal if swallowed. In case of accidental ingestion, please seek immediate medical assistance.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aadhirisian Puppet Nation, Cheroa, Deblar, Duvniask, Estebere, Etwepe, Godular, Google [Bot], Heldervin, Hidrandia, HISPIDA, Hurtful Thoughts, Kaumudeen, Lagene, New haven america, New Zoigai, Nova Zueratopia, Nyoskova, Port Carverton, Punished UMN, Riklasia, Russk, Sarcassia, Sarolandia, Scytharum, Sicias, Statesburg, Suriyanakhon, The Black Forrest, Valyxias, Welskerland, Xind, Yursea

Advertisement

Remove ads