by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:38 pm
by USS Monitor » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:02 am
by The Romulan Republic » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:03 am
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Before we begin, I need to make one thing absolutely clear: I am not in favor of setting up any obstacles between the people and the voting booth. I believe in early voting and absentee voting, and am firmly against the recent spate of closures of voting locations in manys states.
Having said that, I'm skeptical of most get out the vote efforts. Every election, we're hit with public service ads on television and online encouraging all of us to do our civic duty and vote. I personally don't see the point. Yes, in America and elsewhere, it's a constitutional right. Yes, people fought, bled, and died for that right. However--and this is a big however--I really don't think that those who are politically apathetic should vote. If someone can't be bothered to keep up with world events, or thinks that all politicians are the same, or has no understanding of economics whatsoever, then I don't want that person within a mile of a voting booth. We have enough of an issue with the uninformed, the simplistic, the narrow-minded, and the outright bigoted swaying votes in the United States. Why would we add to that by encouraging a bunch of people who don't actually believe in the process to take part in it? To put it crudely, why would we encourage these dipshits to vote?
Another disclaimer: I am not saying that everybody who thinks that the parties have much in common is a dipshit. However, I've known plenty of dipshits who think this for the most superficial and shallow of reasons.
Thoughts?
by Minzerland II » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:06 am
St Anselm of Canterbury wrote:[…]who ever heard of anything having two mothers or two fathers? (Monologion, pg. 63)
by Jetan » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:06 am
USS Monitor wrote:I don't necessarily think everyone should vote, but we should make a distinction between people that are uninformed and people that are just jaded. There are people that know who the candidates are enough to formulate an opinion, but just feel like their vote doesn't matter. Those people should be prodded to vote so they can have their opinion counted. People that don't even know what's going on may as well stay home.
by The first Galactic Republic » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:09 am
Jetan wrote:USS Monitor wrote:I don't necessarily think everyone should vote, but we should make a distinction between people that are uninformed and people that are just jaded. There are people that know who the candidates are enough to formulate an opinion, but just feel like their vote doesn't matter. Those people should be prodded to vote so they can have their opinion counted. People that don't even know what's going on may as well stay home.
This sums up my view on the subject pretty well.
by Internationalist Bastard » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:12 am
by The Liberated Territories » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:12 am
by Yumyumsuppertime » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:18 am
The Romulan Republic wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Before we begin, I need to make one thing absolutely clear: I am not in favor of setting up any obstacles between the people and the voting booth. I believe in early voting and absentee voting, and am firmly against the recent spate of closures of voting locations in manys states.
Having said that, I'm skeptical of most get out the vote efforts. Every election, we're hit with public service ads on television and online encouraging all of us to do our civic duty and vote. I personally don't see the point. Yes, in America and elsewhere, it's a constitutional right. Yes, people fought, bled, and died for that right. However--and this is a big however--I really don't think that those who are politically apathetic should vote. If someone can't be bothered to keep up with world events, or thinks that all politicians are the same, or has no understanding of economics whatsoever, then I don't want that person within a mile of a voting booth. We have enough of an issue with the uninformed, the simplistic, the narrow-minded, and the outright bigoted swaying votes in the United States. Why would we add to that by encouraging a bunch of people who don't actually believe in the process to take part in it? To put it crudely, why would we encourage these dipshits to vote?
Another disclaimer: I am not saying that everybody who thinks that the parties have much in common is a dipshit. However, I've known plenty of dipshits who think this for the most superficial and shallow of reasons.
Thoughts?
Counterpoint:
If only the most motivated vote, that's potentially another way of saying that the ballot box will be dominated by the extremist fringe.
Why do you think midterms, with lower turnout than Presidential races, tend to favour the Tea Party types these days?
by Valonde » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:20 am
by Great Nepal » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:21 am
by Yumyumsuppertime » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:21 am
Minzerland II wrote:Yes, we in fact should. It is a horrible flaw in our system that the I'll-informed are able to sway elections but to exclude some from the process causes problems; (1). They'll feel disenfranchised by the Government (even if you don't deprive them of their right to vote, they still will feel disenfranchised); and (2). It won't be representative of the population.
I think these are key reasons for voluntary voting as it allows people who wish not to vote, not vote and those who are informed, to vote. As opposed to compulsory voting, which makes everyone vote, giving the I'll-informed maximised ability to sway the vote.
by The Romulan Republic » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:22 am
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Nah. I follow politics heavily, but I've never voted because I'm just insignificant. Even if I stood a chance at making a difference with my vote, my party has literally no politicial candidates.
by Internationalist Bastard » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:23 am
Valonde wrote:Yes, I think we should.
I think the problem lies more with the fact far too many people don't understand what voting actually is. What I mean is, so many people say 'my vote won't count'. To these people one little vote is not a game changer. But in reality one vote can actually change the course of history. What we need to do is educate.
Of course, if someone is going to vote whoever just to get it over with, then that person should not be voting.
by Minzerland II » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:23 am
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Minzerland II wrote:Yes, we in fact should. It is a horrible flaw in our system that the I'll-informed are able to sway elections but to exclude some from the process causes problems; (1). They'll feel disenfranchised by the Government (even if you don't deprive them of their right to vote, they still will feel disenfranchised); and (2). It won't be representative of the population.
I think these are key reasons for voluntary voting as it allows people who wish not to vote, not vote and those who are informed, to vote. As opposed to compulsory voting, which makes everyone vote, giving the I'll-informed maximised ability to sway the vote.
I stated upfront that I didn't believe in excluding anyone from the process. I'm just not inclined to encourage the unmotivated who don't wish to inform themselves on the issues, regardless of party, race, age, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, or ethnicity.
St Anselm of Canterbury wrote:[…]who ever heard of anything having two mothers or two fathers? (Monologion, pg. 63)
by Great Nepal » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:23 am
Valonde wrote:Yes, I think we should.
I think the problem lies more with the fact far too many people don't understand what voting actually is. What I mean is, so many people say 'my vote won't count'. To these people one little vote is not a game changer. But in reality one vote can actually change the course of history. What we need to do is educate.
Of course, if someone is going to vote whoever just to get it over with, then that person should not be voting.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:24 am
USS Monitor wrote:I don't necessarily think everyone should vote, but we should make a distinction between people that are uninformed and people that are just jaded. There are people that know who the candidates are enough to formulate an opinion, but just feel like their vote doesn't matter. Those people should be prodded to vote so they can have their opinion counted. People that don't even know what's going on may as well stay home.
by Internationalist Bastard » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:27 am
The Romulan Republic wrote:Internationalist Bastard wrote:Nah. I follow politics heavily, but I've never voted because I'm just insignificant. Even if I stood a chance at making a difference with my vote, my party has literally no politicial candidates.
The idea that a vote is worthless because one vote will not decide the election is a fallacy.
Voting is, by its nature, a collective enterprise, combining the contributions of a great many people. One person is unlikely to tip the balance. However, if enough of those people did not participate, or if enough of those who do not instead did, it would have a great impact.
Just as one person cannot build a bridge, one voter generally does not decide an election. But that does not make the contribution of each worker/voter unimportant to the whole.
Only profound arrogance says that an enterprise is worthless if it is not accomplished, or the outcome is not controlled, by you and you alone.
by Great Nepal » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:28 am
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Valonde wrote:Yes, I think we should.
I think the problem lies more with the fact far too many people don't understand what voting actually is. What I mean is, so many people say 'my vote won't count'. To these people one little vote is not a game changer. But in reality one vote can actually change the course of history. What we need to do is educate.
Of course, if someone is going to vote whoever just to get it over with, then that person should not be voting.
That's assuming a.) we like any of the choices. and b.) our system in the US wasn't absurd when it comes to elections
by Pandeeria » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:28 am
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.
In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???
by Yumyumsuppertime » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:28 am
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Nah. I follow politics heavily, but I've never voted because I'm just insignificant. Even if I stood a chance at making a difference with my vote, my party has literally no politicial candidates.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:29 am
Valonde wrote:Yes, I think we should.
I think the problem lies more with the fact far too many people don't understand what voting actually is. What I mean is, so many people say 'my vote won't count'. To these people one little vote is not a game changer. But in reality one vote can actually change the course of history. What we need to do is educate.
Of course, if someone is going to vote whoever just to get it over with, then that person should not be voting.
by Valonde » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:29 am
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Valonde wrote:Yes, I think we should.
I think the problem lies more with the fact far too many people don't understand what voting actually is. What I mean is, so many people say 'my vote won't count'. To these people one little vote is not a game changer. But in reality one vote can actually change the course of history. What we need to do is educate.
Of course, if someone is going to vote whoever just to get it over with, then that person should not be voting.
That's assuming a.) we like any of the choices. and b.) our system in the US wasn't absurd when it comes to elections
by Internationalist Bastard » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:31 am
Great Nepal wrote:Internationalist Bastard wrote:That's assuming a.) we like any of the choices. and b.) our system in the US wasn't absurd when it comes to elections
Then vote for whoever you dislike the least, or vote for third party, or spoil the ballot - all of these will be counted and sends an specific message; you are willing to live with one, you want someone else to win, you object to the entire system.
by Valonde » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:33 am
Great Nepal wrote:Valonde wrote:Yes, I think we should.
I think the problem lies more with the fact far too many people don't understand what voting actually is. What I mean is, so many people say 'my vote won't count'. To these people one little vote is not a game changer. But in reality one vote can actually change the course of history. What we need to do is educate.
Of course, if someone is going to vote whoever just to get it over with, then that person should not be voting.
Firstly your individual vote doesn't actually matter, no election that I can think of has come down to one vote; secondly if someone doesn't know what voting is, again probably better for everyone if they don't vote.
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