LGBT Rights & Issues Thread, V4

[Oneracon]

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/72331/bill_outlawing_conversion_therapy_approved#.WEl-sKIrJoN

So with the passage of the Affirmation of Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Gender Expression Bill little ol' Malta has become the first European country to ban "conversion therapy". The law includes imposing fines up to €10,000 and up to one year in prison for people found practicing or advertising "therapy" that claims to alter a person's sexual orientation or gender identity.

Wait, wait, wait, FIRST country in Europe to do so? Shit, I always assumed most of the Scandinavian countries had already banned conversion therapy, oh well guess I have an overly-optimistic view of the world then. Hasn't California also banned it or is that my optimism talking again?

Yup, also Malta's law is notable because it bans all "conversion therapy".

The American state bans in Vermont, California, New Jersey, Illinois, Oregon; the ban in the District of Columbia; and the municipal bans in Cincinatti, Miami Beach, and Seattle only apply for minors under 18. The Canadian provincial bans in Manitoba and Ontario are the same.

[Noraika]

Yup, also Malta's law is notable because it bans all "conversion therapy".

As it should be, it's a dangerous and ineffective treatment that can easily harm a person's mental state, and contribute to negative life outcomes directly. The practice of it, itself, should not be permitted on anyone. Good on Malta!

[Socialist Nordia]

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/72331/bill_outlawing_conversion_therapy_approved#.WEl-sKIrJoN

So with the passage of the Affirmation of Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Gender Expression Bill little ol' Malta has become the first European country to ban "conversion therapy". The law includes imposing fines up to €10,000 and up to one year in prison for people found practicing or advertising "therapy" that claims to alter a person's sexual orientation or gender identity.

This is great news. I hope other countries can follow their lead.

[Val Halla]

Yup, also Malta's law is notable because it bans all "conversion therapy".

As it should be, it's a dangerous and ineffective treatment that can easily harm a person's mental state, and contribute to negative life outcomes directly. The practice of it, itself, should not be permitted on anyone. Good on Malta!

I think a more appropriate response, however, would be "Wait, that isn't illegal".

[Noraika]

As it should be, it's a dangerous and ineffective treatment that can easily harm a person's mental state, and contribute to negative life outcomes directly. The practice of it, itself, should not be permitted on anyone. Good on Malta!

I think a more appropriate response, however, would be "Wait, that isn't illegal".

I'm glad they imposed a fine and prison sentence on the issue. It shows that the country will not tolerate its people being subject to, or encouraged to seek, false medical practices which would cause harm to them, or result in documented negative life outcomes that could put the individual in jeopardy.

Indeed. A good question is firstly 'why isn't this already illegal?'

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I think a more appropriate response, however, would be "Wait, that isn't illegal".

I'm glad they imposed a fine and prison sentence on the issue. It shows that the country will not tolerate its people being subject to, or encouraged to seek, false medical practices which would cause harm to them, or result in documented negative life outcomes that could put the individual in jeopardy.

Indeed. A good question is firstly 'why isn't this already illegal?'

Because people believe it shouldn't be.

[Noraika]

I'm glad they imposed a fine and prison sentence on the issue. It shows that the country will not tolerate its people being subject to, or encouraged to seek, false medical practices which would cause harm to them, or result in documented negative life outcomes that could put the individual in jeopardy.

Indeed. A good question is firstly 'why isn't this already illegal?'

Because people believe it shouldn't be.

Aye, but believing a practice should not be banned does not apply any more credence to a practice which, for all medical and recorded purposes, should be banned. People's opinions do not trump the facts established regarding such.

[United Marxist Nations]

Posted the thread: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=397204

[Neutraligon]

So Arkansas supreme court says that LG couples cannot have both names on the birth certificate automatically.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ge%2Fstory

[The Serbian Empire]

So Arkansas supreme court says that LG couples cannot have both names on the birth certificate automatically.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ge%2Fstory

Am I surprised? Not really. This is the Bible Belt we're speaking of in Arkansas.

[The Saint James Islands]

So Arkansas supreme court says that LG couples cannot have both names on the birth certificate automatically.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ge%2Fstory

*sigh*

Colour me unamused and unsurprised. Smells like a 14th Amendment violation that would be quashed by SCOTUS if an appeal were to be made and accepted.

[Sungai Pusat]

So Arkansas supreme court says that LG couples cannot have both names on the birth certificate automatically.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ge%2Fstory

Yup, biological truths indeed.

Might as well mandate that the name of the surrogate be in place of that of the parent, I'm guessing.

---

Emotions aside, is there a type of certificate for parents to have for children that aren't biologically theirs?

I mean, just so that this bullshit argument can be defeated even semantically, since he is technically right, even if the official use of a birth certificate mostly is to say "Hey! This person... exists. I guess."

Would also be helpful for those adopting orphans to have as well.

[Jumalariik]

Why not keep bathrooms as they are? If you can pass, go to the bathroom of choice, if you can't, do so or go to the bathroom of your assigned sex. It's not my job to bend to .3% of the country.

Nor is it your job to force women to get raped because they were born with a penis.

Idk if that's how biology works....

[The V O I D]

Nor is it your job to force women to get raped because they were born with a penis.

Idk if that's how biology works....

Transwomen are women. Debating this fact is questioning the understanding of neurology and biology. So, yes, that is how biology works.

Just because a transwoman hasn't had an operation yet, doesn't mean she goes to the men's room.

[Jumalariik]

Idk if that's how biology works....

Transwomen are women. Debating this fact is questioning the understanding of neurology and biology. So, yes, that is how biology works.

Just because a transwoman hasn't had an operation yet, doesn't mean she goes to the men's room.

So I'm sure that it is clear anatomically who a transwoman is? Like can a scientist verify this for me using archeology or is this something that is only knowable through conversation?

[United Marxist Nations]

Idk if that's how biology works....

Transwomen are women. Debating this fact is questioning the understanding of neurology and biology. So, yes, that is how biology works.

Just because a transwoman hasn't had an operation yet, doesn't mean she goes to the men's room.

I define womanhood primarily through genetics and genitalia.

[The V O I D]

Transwomen are women. Debating this fact is questioning the understanding of neurology and biology. So, yes, that is how biology works.

Just because a transwoman hasn't had an operation yet, doesn't mean she goes to the men's room.

I define womanhood primarily through genetics and genitalia.

Genetically speaking, there was a mutation that caused the neurological features in the transwoman to form as they did. It is the only way to explain how their neurologies changed during development - a mutation while the cells reproduced or something of that nature.

So, yes, genetically, transwomen are still technically speaking, women.

>inb4 chromosomes

With regards to genitals; so that means people who are intersex/hermaphrodites or who were born with the gender of male but had intersex parts so their parents made them female are automatically non-sexes/non-gendered and / or whatever their parents assigned to them, right? Right?

Transwomen are women. Debating this fact is questioning the understanding of neurology and biology. So, yes, that is how biology works.

Just because a transwoman hasn't had an operation yet, doesn't mean she goes to the men's room.

So I'm sure that it is clear anatomically who a transwoman is? Like can a scientist verify this for me using archeology or is this something that is only knowable through conversation?

It is not clear physically until such time as they have transitioned operationally or at least have transitioned their appearance and are putting an effort towards transitioning to the sex that matches their gender. But yes, neurologists have verified what I say on neurological structures of transgender people.

[Jumalariik]

I define womanhood primarily through genetics and genitalia.

Genetically speaking, there was a mutation that caused the neurological features in the transwoman to form as they did. It is the only way to explain how their neurologies changed during development - a mutation while the cells reproduced or something of that nature.

So, yes, genetically, transwomen are still technically speaking, women.

>inb4 chromosomes

With regards to genitals; so that means people who are intersex/hermaphrodites or who were born with the gender of male but had intersex parts so their parents made them female are automatically non-sexes/non-gendered and / or whatever their parents assigned to them, right? Right?

So I'm sure that it is clear anatomically who a transwoman is? Like can a scientist verify this for me using archeology or is this something that is only knowable through conversation?

It is not clear physically until such time as they have transitioned operationally or at least have transitioned their appearance and are putting an effort towards transitioning to the sex that matches their gender. But yes, neurologists have verified what I say on neurological structures of transgender people.

But let's say in 2000 years, we will not be able to tell between a non-transitioned transwoman and a man. Correct? I mean there is no physiological difference that you could point to. Correct? So I don't know if you can use it for legislation or for general policy.

[The V O I D]

Genetically speaking, there was a mutation that caused the neurological features in the transwoman to form as they did. It is the only way to explain how their neurologies changed during development - a mutation while the cells reproduced or something of that nature.

So, yes, genetically, transwomen are still technically speaking, women.

>inb4 chromosomes

With regards to genitals; so that means people who are intersex/hermaphrodites or who were born with the gender of male but had intersex parts so their parents made them female are automatically non-sexes/non-gendered and / or whatever their parents assigned to them, right? Right?



It is not clear physically until such time as they have transitioned operationally or at least have transitioned their appearance and are putting an effort towards transitioning to the sex that matches their gender. But yes, neurologists have verified what I say on neurological structures of transgender people.

But let's say in 2000 years, we will not be able to tell between a non-transitioned transwoman and a man. Correct? I mean there is no physiological difference that you could point to. Correct? So I don't know if you can use it for legislation or for general policy.

I mean, I'd say neurology is a pretty fundamental part of physiology.

[United Marxist Nations]

I define womanhood primarily through genetics and genitalia.

Genetically speaking, there was a mutation that caused the neurological features in the transwoman to form as they did. It is the only way to explain how their neurologies changed during development - a mutation while the cells reproduced or something of that nature.

So, yes, genetically, transwomen are still technically speaking, women.

>inb4 chromosomes

With regards to genitals; so that means people who are intersex/hermaphrodites or who were born with the gender of male but had intersex parts so their parents made them female are automatically non-sexes/non-gendered and / or whatever their parents assigned to them, right? Right?

I am talking about chromosomes, and, yes, people who are intersex are not necessarily one or the other.

[Jumalariik]

So Arkansas supreme court says that LG couples cannot have both names on the birth certificate automatically.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ge%2Fstory

Glad to know that some states still recognize fact over fiction.

[Vassenor]

Good news, everyone.

Pittsburgh council unanimously bans LGBTQ conversion therapy.

[Noraika]

Transgender women are women. Transgender men are men. The reason for this classification is the use of gender identity, which is a measurable aspect of human neurology which is based in how a person's brain subconsciously recognizes itself. Thus it is the more accurate in day-to-day interaction and identification. In addition to this, we have gender identity because, simply put, no other category which we have defined within that binary is expansive enough to represent the vast diversity of human beings, in terms of sex characteristics.

In terms of bathroom usage, there is no logical reason for it not to be based off of gender identity. It is simply a non-issue, and hasn't been tied to any direct effect on...well anything, other than the mental health of transgender people, especially youth, and had remained such a non-issue up until an artificial problem was created by those opposed to it. In addition, the knowledge of gender identity is very well-founded and established, so there's no reason to not include it in basic education.

Regardless, transgender identities, regardless of the personal opinions of some, are recognized as valid by the medical and psychological community. The same with homosexuality or other sexual or gender orientations. Thankfully, the medical and psychological professionals, and their associations, look at the facts, and do not let themselves be dictated to by fiction, and recognize them as valid and naturally occurring parts of human diversity.

[Noraika]

Good news, everyone.

Pittsburgh council unanimously bans LGBTQ conversion therapy.

Definitely a step in the right direction, although I would prefer to take the Malta route, and ban it entirely, instead of just banning it for minors. It's a public health and safety hazard to keep that sort of thing around in our society, and to allow it opens the doors to widespread abuse of others under the guise of 'medical practice'. All evidence of the negative outcomes of the treatment point to that it should be banned.

[Vassenor]

Good news, everyone.

Pittsburgh council unanimously bans LGBTQ conversion therapy.

Definitely a step in the right direction, although I would prefer to take the Malta route, and ban it entirely, instead of just banning it for minors. It's a public health and safety hazard to keep that sort of thing around in our society, and to allow it opens the doors to widespread abuse of others under the guise of 'medical practice'. All evidence of the negative outcomes of the treatment point to that it should be banned.

I think there's a technicality in that you cannot force someone who can legally consent to undergo such a procedure without it anyway. But I am probably wrong.