LGBT Rights & Issues Thread, V4

[Val Halla]

What if my religion supports homosexual relationships only? That sounds like bullshit, right? Or supported discrimination against people called Neil? They're both bullshit. Discriminating against us is bullshit too.

[Thermodolia]

proof pls

Gay marriage hasn't even existed before the 21st century. God, learn some history man.

Sauce?

[Chessmistress]

Gay marriage hasn't even existed before the 21st century. God, learn some history man.

Sauce?

He's partially right: gay marriage basically hasn't even existed before the 20st century.
His problem is that he's using a computer, a tablet or a smartphone, that hasn't even existed before the 20st century.
Then, if he reject gay marriage on the basis that it's a too recent thing he should even stop using his computer/tablet/smartphone
Logic matters.

Basically he's already without beef, pork, computer, tablet and smartphone, let's see how much he can keep pushing bullshit

[Neutraligon]

Sauce?

He's partially right: gay marriage basically hasn't even existed before the 20st century.
His problem is that he's using a computer, a tablet or a smartphone, that hasn't even existed before the 20st century.
Then, if he reject gay marriage on the basis that it's a too recent thing he should even stop using his computer/tablet/smartphone
Logic matters.

Basically he's already without beef, pork, computer, tablet and smartphone, let's see how much he can keep pushing bullshit

Add many medicines and medical devices to that.

[Chessmistress]

What if my religion supports homosexual relationships only? That sounds like bullshit, right? Or supported discrimination against people called Neil? They're both bullshit. Discriminating against us is bullshit too.

A religion supporting homosexual relationships only doesn't sounds bullshit, sounds wonderful.
As long as it's a thing that involves just only its followers, why such religion should be a problem?

[Neutraligon]

What if my religion supports homosexual relationships only? That sounds like bullshit, right? Or supported discrimination against people called Neil? They're both bullshit. Discriminating against us is bullshit too.

I believe there are versions of satanism that are very much for same-sex marriage.

[Val Halla]

What if my religion supports homosexual relationships only? That sounds like bullshit, right? Or supported discrimination against people called Neil? They're both bullshit. Discriminating against us is bullshit too.

A religion supporting homosexual relationships only doesn't sounds bullshit, sounds wonderful.
As long as it's a thing that involves just only its followers, why such religion should be a problem?

Because people do propose laws on the religious beliefs basis.

What if my religion supports homosexual relationships only? That sounds like bullshit, right? Or supported discrimination against people called Neil? They're both bullshit. Discriminating against us is bullshit too.

I believe there are versions of satanism that are very much for same-sex marriage.

And you know, awesome. But saying "everyone must marry same sex" is ridiculous, just like discrimination on religious grounds is ridiculous.

[Neutraligon]

A religion supporting homosexual relationships only doesn't sounds bullshit, sounds wonderful.
As long as it's a thing that involves just only its followers, why such religion should be a problem?

Because people do propose laws on the religious beliefs basis.

I believe there are versions of satanism that are very much for same-sex marriage.

And you know, awesome. But saying "everyone must marry same sex" is ridiculous, just like discrimination on religious grounds is ridiculous.

Oh I agree. My point was that there was a religion that supported gay marriage and thus you end up with conflicting religious intersts, so how does the government choose which one to follow (or neither of course)

[Chessmistress]

A religion supporting homosexual relationships only doesn't sounds bullshit, sounds wonderful.
As long as it's a thing that involves just only its followers, why such religion should be a problem?

Because people do propose laws on the religious beliefs basis.

Hence why a state should be secularist, and that should be within the constitution.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

What if my religion supports homosexual relationships only? That sounds like bullshit, right? Or supported discrimination against people called Neil? They're both bullshit. Discriminating against us is bullshit too.

A religion supporting homosexual relationships only doesn't sounds bullshit, sounds wonderful.
As long as it's a thing that involves just only its followers, why such religion should be a problem?

As far as I understand, Presbyterians and Lutherans are supporters of homosexual relationships. As far as I am aware last time I checked.

[The V O I D]

Because people do propose laws on the religious beliefs basis.

Hence why a state should be secularist, and that should be within the constitution.

It is. At least, in the US, it is.

Some politicians and people are just uneducated is all, and think the Constitution says we're a "Christian nation."

Those politicians and people who say such things make me... just... *disgusted growl.*

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Hence why a state should be secularist, and that should be within the constitution.

It is. At least, in the US, it is.

Some politicians and people are just uneducated is all, and think the Constitution says we're a "Christian nation."

Those politicians and people who say such things make me... just... *disgusted growl.*

Politicians are well aware that the Constitution doesn't say we're a Christian nation.

The argument that we are a Christian nation comes from the fact that we are, in fact, a culturally Christian nation. What that means is that religion has always had a place in American culture, which is true.

However, a culture, while it does influence the government, it shouldn't influence the rights of minorities, in my personal opinion. And yes, I am Christian, I just don't talk about it often in debates because some of the people who argue for these things make me cringe and I'd rather debate with them without bringing up the fact I am Christian unless it is absolutely necessary.

[The V O I D]

It is. At least, in the US, it is.

Some politicians and people are just uneducated is all, and think the Constitution says we're a "Christian nation."

Those politicians and people who say such things make me... just... *disgusted growl.*

Politicians are well aware that the Constitution doesn't say we're a Christian nation.

The argument that we are a Christian nation comes from the fact that we are, in fact, a culturally Christian nation. What that means is that religion has always had a place in American culture, which is true.

However, a culture, while it does influence the government, it shouldn't influence the rights of minorities, in my personal opinion. And yes, I am Christian, I just don't talk about it often in debates because some of the people who argue for these things make me cringe and I'd rather debate with them without bringing up the fact I am Christian unless it is absolutely necessary.

John McCain and many other politicians disagree. They believe the Constitution is founded on Christian principles and such...

It's gross.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Politicians are well aware that the Constitution doesn't say we're a Christian nation.

The argument that we are a Christian nation comes from the fact that we are, in fact, a culturally Christian nation. What that means is that religion has always had a place in American culture, which is true.

However, a culture, while it does influence the government, it shouldn't influence the rights of minorities, in my personal opinion. And yes, I am Christian, I just don't talk about it often in debates because some of the people who argue for these things make me cringe and I'd rather debate with them without bringing up the fact I am Christian unless it is absolutely necessary.

John McCain and many other politicians disagree. They believe the Constitution is founded on Christian principles and such...

It's gross.

Is it possible that Christianity influenced what principles would be in the Constitution?

[Chessmistress]

Hence why a state should be secularist, and that should be within the constitution.

It is. At least, in the US, it is.

Some politicians and people are just uneducated is all, and think the Constitution says we're a "Christian nation."

Those politicians and people who say such things make me... just... *disgusted growl.*

There's some inherent flaw, thn, or you didn't understand what I mean for secularism within constitution: it means that every law proposed on religious grounds is illegal and would be sinked by the supreme court. In fact it could not even reach discussion within the Parliament: if the politician who write the bill declare that the bill is based on religious values then the bill is already illegal.
Otherwise it isn't proper secularism.

[Thermodolia]

John McCain and many other politicians disagree. They believe the Constitution is founded on Christian principles and such...

It's gross.

Is it possible that Christianity influenced what principles would be in the Constitution?

It's possible but a good chunk of the founding fathers weren't Christians but deists and atheists

[Soldati Senza Confini]

John McCain and many other politicians disagree. They believe the Constitution is founded on Christian principles and such...

It's gross.

Yes, which they do say, and that's what they mean, that because we are a Christian culture, Christian principles influenced the Constitution. Which is not a disparate argument if you consider Protestantism was the de facto religion of a lot of the founding fathers.

However, Christianity did not influence the ideas of the Founding Fathers, the Enlightenment ideas and those of anti-clerical and anti-monarchist fellows were the ones who actually influenced the founding fathers somewhat.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Is it possible that Christianity influenced what principles would be in the Constitution?

It's possible but a good chunk of the founding fathers weren't Christians but deists and atheists

Deism was popular back at the time in Christian Protestantism, too.

So it is entirely possible many of them identified as Christian Deists, and not just Deists.

[The land of a great perhaps]

idk how to give off gay vibes so my parentals aren't surprised when I exit the closet.

[Sillexant]

What if my religion supports homosexual relationships only? That sounds like bullshit, right? Or supported discrimination against people called Neil? They're both bullshit. Discriminating against us is bullshit too.

Ever thought that maybe there is a greater reason for God supporting heterosexual relations over sodomy?

[Thermodolia]

What if my religion supports homosexual relationships only? That sounds like bullshit, right? Or supported discrimination against people called Neil? They're both bullshit. Discriminating against us is bullshit too.

Ever thought that maybe there is a greater reason for God supporting heterosexual relations over sodomy?

What?

[The Grene Knyght]

Ever thought that maybe there is a greater reason for God supporting heterosexual relations over sodomy?

What?

Sillexant is a troll account who just got off a 3-day ban, and is now on a 7-day ban. Don't expect an answer any time soon. And don't expect a non-troll answer ever.

[Thermodolia]

What?

Sillexant is a troll account who just got off a 3-day ban, and is now on a 7-day ban. Don't expect an answer any time soon. And don't expect a non-troll answer ever.

I see. Thanks for the info

[Val Halla]

I think the main reason people used to be like, not for lesbians and gay males was simple productivity. Death rates in infants used to be high, and also the need for physical labour. Now we don't need that, you'd expect it'd go away, but because of some bizarre reason, people still become consumed by irrational hate.

I don't think religion can come into it. It is those who use religion for their own agendas, biased or hate.

[Sungai Pusat]

I think the main reason people used to be like, not for lesbians and gay males was simple productivity. Death rates in infants used to be high, and also the need for physical labour. Now we don't need that, you'd expect it'd go away, but because of some bizarre reason, people still become consumed by irrational hate.

I don't think religion can come into it. It is those who use religion for their own agendas, biased or hate.

Because it's ambiguous.

Or it makes things more confusing for them, being that it implies that a man's partner may not be a woman and vice versa. Plus the upbringing that a lot of people have that emphasised on homosexuality being a bad thing and the like.