What if: Your country becomes a Leninist/Maoist country?

[Kubra]

Marx wanted to dismantle the church, not religion. As long as the church has power over the people, the people it commands can't be free. Religion is fine to believe, but the church cannot stand.

If the Church is dismantled, then we could not practice our faith, it would be extremely oppressive to us.

I think the response that is being pussyfooted around is "good".
You can imagine a few of us folks aren't huge fans of religion in general, and the catholic and orthodox church even less.
At some point in politics doing away with things ones doesn't like becomes an organizing principle.

[United Marxist Nations]

I'm influenced greatly by Marxism-Leninism, but I wouldn't exactly call myself one anymore.

Would you still ultimately consider yourself a Communist though?

I would probably say an authoritarian socialist.

[Pandeeria]

Seriously though, the point I was really trying to make is Leninism is not incompatible with nationalist ambitions. I can definitely see the merit of embracing Leninist or Maoist principles as a tool of national regeneration, as many Russians and Chinese did historically and many European intellectuals toyed with in the interwar.

Even if it's not an ideal regime type. It certainly has advantages, there is probably no more perfect regime type for mobilizing the nations resources. If it has already won you may as well make the best of it.

You know that Communism and it's accompanying ideologies (Marxism, Leninism, etc.) are inherently anti-Nationalist and it seeks the ultimate abolition of the state? Being a Communist and still favoring a regeneration of the state with at least quasi-nationalist characteristics is akin to being a Reaftionary dressed in red.

[Spurdo Sparde Land]

Join the rebellion, of course. No dirty commie is gonna rule over me.

[Dagashi]

I'd probably end up getting purged due to not being able to keep my mouth shut about how much of a Hegelian-in-denial Marx was.

Though my ambitions in the country would probably be similar to Ernst Junger's ideal of a socialist society dominated by a class of worker-warriors.

[Napkiraly]

Join an anti-communist rebel group. Or flee to the USA and work for the CIA.

Though preferably the CIA would have had the SAG...deal with any possible viable communist revolutionaries before that, since I don't think CSIS would be willing to do the job themselves.

[The Christonian Imperium]

there are no communists just lots of fascists and the nation has to have 7/8ths of the republics in our nation so 14 of the republics need to be fascists and we have 16 republics and 3 kingdoms and fascism and communism is outlawed

[Kubra]

Seriously though, the point I was really trying to make is Leninism is not incompatible with nationalist ambitions. I can definitely see the merit of embracing Leninist or Maoist principles as a tool of national regeneration, as many Russians and Chinese did historically and many European intellectuals toyed with in the interwar.

Even if it's not an ideal regime type. It certainly has advantages, there is probably no more perfect regime type for mobilizing the nations resources. If it has already won you may as well make the best of it.

You know that Communism and it's accompanying ideologies (Marxism, Leninism, etc.) are inherently anti-Nationalist and it seeks the ultimate abolition of the state? Being a Communist and still favoring a regeneration of the state with at least quasi-nationalist characteristics is akin to being a Reaftionary dressed in red.

sort of not really
"marxist-leninism" was wholly a stalin invention, and that guy was kinda in the business of reviving old russian empire territorial claims, coming full circle back to pan-slavism.
As for the chinese, it was pretty much for the building of a unified china with a central governing apparatus for the first time in its history.

[Pandeeria]

Will it stomp out any dissenting opinions, or will it still hold elections, allowing for free and open discussion and media, and not be a Single Party shit stain?

Assuming that since the OP said Leninist, it would follow "democratic centralism" and be a one-party state. How much freedom is within that structure, we can't know.

I don't like Lenin's idea of a Vangaurd Party ruling everything.

A Vangaurd coalition of multiple Communist, Leftist, and Centrist parties would be superior.

[Wanderjar]

Communism is never legitimate, therefore even if the people 'voted' for it, their votes immediately become irrelevant.

So, it's democratic until the people elect someone you don't like.

> Maoism
> Tolerating dissent

Mao tolerated no dissent and hated culture and beauty (just ask the Cultural Revolution). His entire idea was to subjugate the population ("to abolish arms, take up arms", and to get peace, use war). The pre-Bolshevik First Russian Revolution's state tolerated dissent, but Lenin was a Bolshevik at hear who tolerated nothing. He was no Stalin, but he was bloodthirsty, vengeful, violent, and oppressive.

ALL Marxist regimes either degenerate into Deformed Workers' States or outright Stalinism (USSR, Hoxa's Albania, Cuba), or collapse into famine, poverty, and/or filthy hospitals (Venezuela, the USSR at its end).

Aren't you an ANCAP? He opposed the cruel treatment of women, the horrible culture of Pre-Maoist China and banned the use of opium. Apparently, feet binding is beautiful culture, same as treating women as inferior.

Well I agree with Shiistan. I may not like Obama, for example, but he and the Democratic Party are legitimate. Communism can never be as it seeks to subvert the democratic process and cannot exist in a true republic. Neither can fascism though. Its like that saying attributed to the FIS in Algeria: One Man, One Vote, One Time.

[Halvatia]

EDIT: Id probably start a fascist rebellion.

[Thermodolia]

there are no communists just lots of fascists and the nation has to have 7/8ths of the republics in our nation so 14 of the republics need to be fascists and we have 16 republics and 3 kingdoms and fascism and communism is outlawed

This is a out of character forum

[Pandeeria]

there are no communists just lots of fascists and the nation has to have 7/8ths of the republics in our nation so 14 of the republics need to be fascists and we have 16 republics and 3 kingdoms and fascism and communism is outlawed

Wholly fuck, this is general. Not Factbooks and Information.

[The Kievan People]

You know that Communism and it's accompanying ideologies (Marxism, Leninism, etc.) are inherently anti-Nationalist and it seeks the ultimate abolition of the state? Being a Communist and still favoring a regeneration of the state with at least quasi-nationalist characteristics is akin to being a Reaftionary dressed in red.

It's one of those wonderful contradictions of life.

Communism is an anti-nationalist ideology. But communist parties where overwhelmingly nationalist or even ultra-nationalist. If you can get over the suppression of religion and free markets, there really isn't any contradiction at all between loving the nation and loving the party. Which is why more than a few nationalists in Russia and China did in fact make the leap to supporting the new states.

[Ohioan Territory]

I'd leave.

[Thermodolia]

It wouldn't as it is impossible. Communism is a blight upon all life. Fascism is the cure!

If I had a choice between fascism or communism, I'd choose communism in a heartbeat beat.

[Oesterrepublik]

You can have any belief you want to. What you can't have is an group of elites that keep the people down. The church is one such group of elites.

How in the hell is it keeping people down? And, no, we can't have any belief we want if you forcibly dismantle the Church, because a core belief is in a One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

>How in the hell is it keeping people down
>being this blind
Are you aware of all the atrocities organized religion has caused? I'm sorry, but your belief doesn't way out the fact that organized religion is dangerous and oppressive.

[Nayba Collective]

Get the fuck out of there before the economy collapses.

Same.

[Augusta Pinochet]

Communism is never legitimate, therefore even if the people 'voted' for it, their votes immediately become irrelevant.

BETTER DEAD THAN RED

That reminds me of one of my all-time favorite quotes: "No nation should go [Marxist] due to the irresponsibility of its own people."

"No nation should go [Marxist] due to the irresponsibility of its own people."

I can feel ya fam. Muh feelz when I read your post:



@Commies

I am looking at you. ^^

[Oesterrepublik]

I'd probably end up getting purged due to not being able to keep my mouth shut about how much of a Hegelian-in-denial Marx was.

Though my ambitions in the country would probably be similar to Ernst Junger's ideal of a socialist society dominated by a class of worker-warriors.

I'm ok with this. Your ideas are fine by me. Let's hope the revolution didn't end up like ussr and purge people.

[United Marxist Nations]

How in the hell is it keeping people down? And, no, we can't have any belief we want if you forcibly dismantle the Church, because a core belief is in a One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

>How in the hell is it keeping people down
>being this blind
Are you aware of all the atrocities organized religion has caused? I'm sorry, but your belief doesn't way out the fact that organized religion is dangerous and oppressive.

Which doesn't mean it is keeping people down at present.

[Communal Ecotopia]

BETTER DEAD THAN RED

That reminds me of one of my all-time favorite quotes: "No nation should go [Marxist] due to the irresponsibility of its own people."

I wouldn't want to die just because the state went Marxist, I'd try to get a position of power in the government, or use my skills to get a government job, or join the rebellion

Clarification: Marxist is not necessarily Leninist or Maoist. Certain Marxisms I'd cheer.

[Kubra]

Assuming that since the OP said Leninist, it would follow "democratic centralism" and be a one-party state. How much freedom is within that structure, we can't know.

I don't like Lenin's idea of a Vangaurd Party ruling everything.

A Vangaurd coalition of multiple Communist, Leftist, and Centrist parties would be superior.

barriers to entry into the vanguard party were like really low at the time. it was simple enough to be obviously a revolutionary and pay your dues, and this was considered to be steep enough to merit debate. It's well documented in the post-stalin era that party membership was fairly restrictive, I do not myself know exactly when this transition occurred.

[Thermodolia]

I wouldn't want to die just because the state went Marxist, I'd try to get a position of power in the government, or use my skills to get a government job, or join the rebellion

Clarification: Marxist is not necessarily Leninist or Maoist. Certain Marxisms I'd cheer.

I'm well aware of that. It was in response to Turtleshroom's post

[Communal Ecotopia]

Assuming that since the OP said Leninist, it would follow "democratic centralism" and be a one-party state. How much freedom is within that structure, we can't know.

I don't like Lenin's idea of a Vangaurd Party ruling everything.

A Vangaurd coalition of multiple Communist, Leftist, and Centrist parties would be superior.

Indeed, especially if all elections remained open.