Right Wing Discussion Thread the Third

[Germanic Templars]

Really? Shit, just play Medieval Total War 1 and/or 2. They got quotes from him on almost every loading screen.

Outside of political classes and games you won't find much of him.

Still, the games exposed me to him and his methods, which counts.

[Soadino]

Niccolò Machiavelli.

Best. Republican. Ever.

Though Thomas Hobbes deserves an honorable mention.

I agree. I like Machiavelli a lot.

[The East Marches]

Are there any philosophers, that you would recommend for someone who is only beginning to look into philosophy.

Obviously my main man Locke. If you read Germanic Templar's and Eisen-Ara's recommendations of Machiavelli, you must read Frederick the Great's Anti-Machiavell.

[Soadino]

Hobbes and Machiavelli are pretty good. Plato as well if you want to count him in.

I need to get reading Hobbes' books, tbh. I find that Machiavelli is underrated, which is sad really.

Right? Machiavelli is dank. I think 'The Prince' gave him a bad rep though.

[-Fahrong-]

Cheers.

If anything, start with this quote:

Politics have no relation to morals.

Ugh I get shivers down my spine whenever I hear those words and the terrible things they have encouraged. What good can come from saying it is fine to be evil?

[The East Marches]

He was a philosopher?

Machiavelli? Honest to the gods, I was in a rough patch when I was younger; I was passed a copy of "the Prince" by my shrink at the time and told "approach this from a philosophical standpoint, it might help you persevere". Well, it helped, changed how I view the world & people in alot of ways. He might as well be considering the contents of his works.

I firmly hold dear the methodology of assembly & accruing assets that Gustav Krupp pursued as what effectively mounts up to be a philosophical stance due to the successes achieved by the Krupp company; and how Krupp was effectively an essential arm of Production for a young country that in many ways acted like a "driving force" behind it's very ideals of Industrial Thought & Industrial Application.

I agree with your analysis of Krupp, that is a very interesting man to study if any of the Gentlemen here have not.

[Soadino]

If anything, start with this quote:

Ugh I get shivers down my spine whenever I hear those words and the terrible things they have encouraged. What good can come from saying it is fine to be evil?

Same guy who said this tho
It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles.
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... lli_2.html

[The East Marches]

If anything, start with this quote:

Ugh I get shivers down my spine whenever I hear those words and the terrible things they have encouraged. What good can come from saying it is fine to be evil?

My personal hero Henry "I literally did nothing wrong" Kissinger did

[Dagashi]

Are there any philosophers, that you would recommend for someone who is only beginning to look into philosophy.

Hegel. He's the clearest and most concise author on the subject there is. If you're a beginner to philosophy, it's good to start with him.

[Napkiraly]

Ugh I get shivers down my spine whenever I hear those words and the terrible things they have encouraged. What good can come from saying it is fine to be evil?

My personal hero Henry "I literally did nothing wrong" Kissinger did

Did you read On China?

[Germanic Templars]

If anything, start with this quote:

Ugh I get shivers down my spine whenever I hear those words and the terrible things they have encouraged. What good can come from saying it is fine to be evil?

It's the truth, but when you tie that into another one of his quotes:

It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles.

And you can make it so that such in political power are held to honor their titles and not to abuse them, then you merely keep them in check. That, in my opinion, is the job for the populous. For as it is also said by Machiavelli:

Before all else, be armed.

and

When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred.

It is that same populous that, when armed appropriately, can remind those in power that they may have the power, but it is the people that put them there.

[Soadino]

Ugh I get shivers down my spine whenever I hear those words and the terrible things they have encouraged. What good can come from saying it is fine to be evil?

It's the truth, but when you tie that into another one of his quotes:

It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles.

And you can make it so that such in political power are held to honor their titles and not to abuse them, then you merely keep them in check. That, in my opinion, is the job for the populous. For as it is also said by Machiavelli:

Before all else, be armed.

and

When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred.

It is that same populous that, when armed appropriately, can remind those in power that they may have the power, but it is the people that put them there.

I like those quotes, we need an armed populace

[The East Marches]

My personal hero Henry "I literally did nothing wrong" Kissinger did

Did you read On China?

Yes, it is a very good book. It helped me learn much about Chinese culture and customs before I went there.

[-Fahrong-]

Ugh I get shivers down my spine whenever I hear those words and the terrible things they have encouraged. What good can come from saying it is fine to be evil?

It's the truth, but when you tie that into another one of his quotes:

It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles.

And you can make it so that such in political power are held to honor their titles and not to abuse them, then you merely keep them in check. That, in my opinion, is the job for the populous. For as it is also said by Machiavelli:

Before all else, be armed.

and

When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred.

It is that same populous that, when armed appropriately, can remind those in power that they may have the power, but it is the people that put them there.

Popular opinion can easily be manipulated to support government policy (even when it lacks all moral good) when it does not operate accordingly to pre existing moral code.

[Germanic Templars]

It's the truth, but when you tie that into another one of his quotes:
And you can make it so that such in political power are held to honor their titles and not to abuse them, then you merely keep them in check. That, in my opinion, is the job for the populous. For as it is also said by Machiavelli:
and

It is that same populous that, when armed appropriately, can remind those in power that they may have the power, but it is the people that put them there.

Popular opinion can easily be manipulated to support government policy (even when it lacks all moral good) when it does not operate accordingly to pre existing moral code.

Hence his next quote:

The main foundations of every state, new states as well as ancient or composite ones, are good laws and good arms you cannot have good laws without good arms, and where there are good arms, good laws inevitably follow.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Popular opinion can easily be manipulated to support government policy (even when it lacks all moral good) when it does not operate accordingly to pre existing moral code.

Hence his next quote:

The main foundations of every state, new states as well as ancient or composite ones, are good laws and good arms you cannot have good laws without good arms, and where there are good arms, good laws inevitably follow.

After a quick read through his wiki page and the Machiavellism wiki age, I find his philosophy to be intriguing.

[Conscentia]

Are there any philosophers, that you would recommend for someone who is only beginning to look into philosophy.

Philosophy is broad. What fields specifically are you interested in? Logic? Aesthetics? Ethics? Epistemology? Metaphysics? Natural philosophy? Political philosophy? Philosophy of science?

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Are there any philosophers, that you would recommend for someone who is only beginning to look into philosophy.

Philosophy is broad. What fields specifically are you interested in? Logic? Aesthetics? Ethics? Epistemology? Metaphysics? Natural philosophy? Political philosophy? Philosophy of science?

Logic, Political and metaphysics, preferably.

[Eisarn-Ara]

I agree with your analysis of Krupp, that is a very interesting man to study if any of the Gentlemen here have not.

The history of Krupp itself is well worth diving into. "The Arms of Krupp" by William Manchester is seriously worth reading.

[Germanic Templars]

Hence his next quote:

After a quick read through his wiki page and the Machiavellism wiki age, I find his philosophy to be intriguing.

Damn right he is..

Also a friendly fyi, spoiler some of your sig, it's over 8 lines long.

[-Fahrong-]

Popular opinion can easily be manipulated to support government policy (even when it lacks all moral good) when it does not operate accordingly to pre existing moral code.

Hence his next quote:

The main foundations of every state, new states as well as ancient or composite ones, are good laws and good arms you cannot have good laws without good arms, and where there are good arms, good laws inevitably follow.

I quite frankly disagree. Good arms allows an enforcement of will but with no safeguard that it is a good will for good laws.

[Old Tyrannia]

I'm not sure such a thing could exist in most Western countries.

Well, it's surprising that you would say that.

You, for real think, that therw cannot be a TradCon Politician in the West that doesn't oppose people from multiple ethnicities existing in one country and doesn't think Muslims are scum?

Multiple ethnicities, sure, especially in states with a long history of ethnic diversity. Religion is an entirely different matter. Culture and religion are indelibly intertwined; the traditional cultural identity of a nation that is historically dominantly Christian is therefore inherently threatened by the emergence of a religiously pluralistic society. A traditionalist may tolerate the existence of other religions within the borders of their country, but is unlikely to welcome alien religious traditions, especially of the proselytising kind. I for one certainly don't hate Islam or possess any desire to persecute individual Muslims for their beliefs, but I'd rather there were none here. I don't really mind the existence of small, non-proselytising religious minorities such as Sikhs, Hindus and Jews in the UK, but generally I'm prejudiced towards any religious group besides Anglican and Presbyterian Christianity (smaller Protestant groups like the Methodists and Quakers, I'm mostly fine with; that doesn't extend to American-influenced evangelical sects).

Hopefully the British Muslim community will eventually become a stable demographic minority, assimilate into British culture and lose ties with its overseas origins.

[Diopolis]

Philosophy is broad. What fields specifically are you interested in? Logic? Aesthetics? Ethics? Epistemology? Metaphysics? Natural philosophy? Political philosophy? Philosophy of science?

Logic, Political and metaphysics, preferably.

Aristotle is really the basis for most of that in western thought, so start with him.

[Diopolis]

Well, it's surprising that you would say that.

You, for real think, that therw cannot be a TradCon Politician in the West that doesn't oppose people from multiple ethnicities existing in one country and doesn't think Muslims are scum?

Multiple ethnicities, sure, especially in states with a long history of ethnic diversity. Religion is an entirely different matter. Culture and religion are indelibly intertwined; the traditional cultural identity of a nation that is historically dominantly Christian is therefore inherently threatened by the emergence of a religiously pluralistic society. A traditionalist may tolerate the existence of other religions within the borders of their country, but is unlikely to welcome alien religious traditions, especially of the proselytising kind. I for one certainly don't hate Islam or possess any desire to persecute individual Muslims for their beliefs, but I'd rather there were none here. I don't really mind the existence of small, non-proselytising religious minorities such as Sikhs, Hindus and Jews in the UK, but generally I'm prejudiced towards any religious group besides Anglican and Presbyterian Christianity (smaller Protestant groups like the Methodists and Quakers, I'm mostly fine with; that doesn't extend to American-influenced evangelical sects).

Hopefully the British Muslim community will eventually become a stable demographic minority, assimilate into British culture and lose ties with its overseas origins.

Multiple ethnicities are fine if the state in question has a long history of multiple ethnic groups in it's borders, and then it's mostly for ethnic groups that have either been influential on the state or have a long history there. Multiple religions can be tolerated if the state has a history of such- subject to the same caveat as above, that only those which have been influential in or have a long history in the state- but is not the ideal.

[Conscentia]

Philosophy is broad. What fields specifically are you interested in? Logic? Aesthetics? Ethics? Epistemology? Metaphysics? Natural philosophy? Political philosophy? Philosophy of science?

Logic, Political and metaphysics, preferably.

I can't be certain that they'll catch your interest, but consider looking at: Aristotle, Zeno of Elea, Baruch Spinoza, David Hume, Charles Sanders Peirce, and Bertrand Russell.