Ohio Transwoman killed, called "Satan"

[Noraika]

Its important that we recognize that reports like this aren't just about one person. Its not just that one person was murdered due to a Christian's religious bigotry against transgender people. Its also about the issue of harassment, discrimination, and abuse faced by the near 1% of the population that's transgender, and the greater social problem, in this regard, that permeates throughout society. The abuse, violence, and religious and other rhetoric and justification that is used to further hatred against transgender people, and at times even promote their extermination.

This effects more than just this young woman who's life was taken, but also represents the struggles and worries of transgender people, their friends, and their families, and thus directly impacts many more people than just the individual.

That's the difference.

[Urran]

How did this not happen in the south?

[Noraika]

Except transgender people seem to be murdered at a lower rate than the general population. Individual incidents or big picture this isn't the pandemic that the narritive is spinning it as.

When we factor in the degree of rape, poverty, harassment, assault, and discrimination....murder is just one part of, and points to, the much bigger problems within society regarding transgender people, and the huge risks and dangers that transgender people face just being who they are in the day-to-day. The fact that these incidents are often hate crimes, and a part of the greater rhetoric of violence against transgender people, is supplementary to this as well.

[Urran]

Its important that we recognize that reports like this aren't just about one person. Its not just that one person was murdered due to a Christian's religious bigotry against transgender people. Its also about the issue of harassment, discrimination, and abuse faced by the near 1% of the population that's transgender, and the greater social problem, in this regard, that permeates throughout society. The abuse, violence, and religious and other rhetoric and justification that is used to further hatred against transgender people, and at times even promote their extermination.

This effects more than just this young woman who's life was taken, but also represents the struggles and worries of transgender people, their friends, and their families, and thus directly impacts many more people than just the individual.

That's the difference.

Thank you!

[Des-Bal]

[
When we factor in the degree of rape, poverty, harassment, assault, and discrimination....murder is just one part of, and points to, the much bigger problems within society regarding transgender people. The fact that these incidents are often hate crimes, and a part of the greater rhetoric of violence against transgender people, is supplementary to this as well.

It's actually pointing to the opposite. See you can't use the fact that you're less likely than the average person to be murdered as evidence of a problem.

There have been over 10,000 homicides this year, if transgender people are nearly 1% of the population they're due nearly 100 murders.

[New Axiom]

Okay, if I went to New York, let's say, amd some random dude called me satan and shot me in my balls I still wouldn't get this much media attention.

Last time I checked there wasn't a trend in religious nuts shooting random people in the balls, or for religious justifications for violence against cisgender individuals. With transgender people it falls not only into individual incidents, but a larger rhetoric that's been used in social conservative circles of using violence and deadly force against transgender individuals, as well as the larger issue of violence and harassment against transgender people, at times religiously motivated and justified, so once again this particular instance points to greater issues in society, and isn't just an isolated incident based in an isolated individual.

The thing is, in your case, its a single person in a single instance, which is more or less isolated. With transgender people it points to a much larger problem within society, is not an isolated incident. So yeah, the range of things being covered is more than just the individual, although the primary story may be about that indiviudal. Its about an issue which is far-reaching in society, and thus impacts many more individuals directly, especially transgender people, and as more people know transgender people as friends, family, coworkers, etc, as these individuals are also effected by the struggles of their loved ones.

This dude right here.

He is wise.

[Camicon]

[
When we factor in the degree of rape, poverty, harassment, assault, and discrimination....murder is just one part of, and points to, the much bigger problems within society regarding transgender people. The fact that these incidents are often hate crimes, and a part of the greater rhetoric of violence against transgender people, is supplementary to this as well.

It's actually pointing to the opposite. See you can't use the fact that you're less likely than the average person to be murdered as evidence of a problem.

There have been over 10,000 homicides this year, if transgender people are nearly 1% of the population they're due nearly 100 murders.

We already know that there is reporting bias when it comes to race and sex. I suspect that if you looked for it you would find significant reporting bias against transgender people.

[Des-Bal]

We already know that there is reporting bias when it comes to race and sex. I suspect that if you looked for it you would find significant reporting bias against transgender people.

Of course, there is only the narrative. Anything that goes against the narrative is suspect in certain but totally unprovable ways. Strive to bring glory to the narrative in your every action.

[Camicon]

We already know that there is reporting bias when it comes to race and sex. I suspect that if you looked for it you would find significant reporting bias against transgender people.

Of course, there is only the narrative. Anything that goes against the narrative is suspect in certain but totally unprovable ways. Strive to bring glory to the narrative in your every action.

We know there is a significant reporting bias when it comes to race and sex, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that gender would be exempt from that. We also know that there is a distinct and prevalent (and in many circles, aggressive and violent) social bias against sexual minorities.

What is fantastical beyond all belief is to assume that there is no reporting bias against sexual minorities.

[Des-Bal]

We know there is a significant reporting bias when it comes to race and sex, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that gender would be exempt from that. We also know that there is a distinct and prevalent (and in many circles, aggressive and violent) social bias against sexual minorities.

What is fantastical beyond all belief is to assume that there is no reporting bias against sexual minorities.

That's not the way skepticism works. The thing that's being sold right now is that this is a hate crime even though there logical issues with that bare assumption. The thing that's being sold is that there have been 20 transgender people killed this year and that this is evidence of a huge problem when reality that number is between 50 and 500% lower than the national average. You're arguing that that number is only so low because of a reporting bias and that the real, unknown number is surely large enough to be evidence of a huge problem. You're saying that almost all of these are hate crimes even though crime statistics suggest that is impossible. I'm not drinking your Kool Aid. Is it unthinkable to me that the number is higher than 20? Not in the least. Is it anathema to my understanding of the world that transgender people face problems? Absolutely not. What you're selling is this particular murder, the number 20 and the homicide of transgender people as a serious problem. If we're throwing out all the facts stop pretending they matter and change the link in the op to pictures of cute puppies because if it doesn't matter what the facts are let's try to make people smile with the perfunctory green text.

[New China and North India]

Thats really sad, I definitely think transgender people are a group that isn't given the same attention as others, however identity politics in general to me just seems a little trivial in that humans are all 99.999% the exact same (genetically). I personally think we should celebrate what we have in common instead of obsess ourselves with what we have apart. The worst part of it, though, is all the labels and categories people try to create. If you feel like you are a woman, be a woman, if you feel like a man, be a man. To be honest I don't see why people care so much about what someone else wants to do with their life.

If only every person were like you, and me the world would be a utopia. It's so sad.

How did this not happen in the south?

Because a lot of people there are too afraid to come out as a member of the LGBTQQIA community.

[American Imperial State]

a trans person beaten to death and killed? very unfortunate, indeed.

[Camicon]

We know there is a significant reporting bias when it comes to race and sex, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that gender would be exempt from that. We also know that there is a distinct and prevalent (and in many circles, aggressive and violent) social bias against sexual minorities.

What is fantastical beyond all belief is to assume that there is no reporting bias against sexual minorities.

That's not the way skepticism works. The thing that's being sold right now is that this is a hate crime even though there logical issues with that bare assumption.

> Man calls a woman the Devil because she is transgender.
> Man kills woman while calling her the Devil

I am not in the habit of assuming to know a person's motivations better than they do, and this murderer made it pretty goddamn clear what his motivations were.

The thing that's being sold is that there have been 20 transgender people killed this year and that this is evidence of a huge problem when reality that number is between 50 and 500% lower than the national average.

The problem is less that transsexual people die (everyone dies) and more that they are being killed specifically because they are transgender.

You're arguing that that number is only so low because of a reporting bias and that the real, unknown number is surely large enough to be evidence of a huge problem.

I'm saying that we're not seeing the whole picture because of a reporting bias that everything indicates should exist, and because of a systemic bias that absolutely and undoubtedly does exist.

You're saying that almost all of these are hate crimes even though crime statistics suggest that is impossible.

Ohio doesn't classify this as a hate crime. Ohio is not alone in this regard. You see the same kind of problem with rape statistics; rape statistics for males are incredibly unreliable unless you classify "being made to penetrate" as rape, which almost nobody does.

I'm not drinking your Kool Aid.

I'm not asking you to. I'm asking you to acknowledge that the picture is unclear, and playing down the severity of this incident and others like it helps absolutely nobody.

Is it unthinkable to me that the number is higher than 20? Not in the least. Is it anathema to my understanding of the world that transgender people face problems? Absolutely not. What you're selling is this particular murder, the number 20 and the homicide of transgender people as a serious problem. If we're throwing out all the facts stop pretending they matter and change the link in the op to pictures of cute puppies because if it doesn't matter what the facts are let's try to make people smile with the perfunctory green text.

Again, transgender people are going to die. The problem is that when transgender people are murdered it is almost certainly because they are transgender. When a white woman dies it is almost certainly not because she was targeted as a white woman.

We know that the suicide rate among transgenders is astronomically higher than everyone else. We know that their chances of being physically and verbally abused are astronomically higher than everyone. We don't know the exact extent to which they are murdered because of their gender because the structures and systems we have in place to monitor that sort of thing are failing in that task; set aside the reporting bias, only 17 American states have hate crime laws that cover transgender individuals. Less than half of the Union doesn't track hate crimes against transgender people, because they don't consider that specific kind of bigotry a hate crime.

[Terdesuni]

I really hate it when people use Christianity as an excuse to hate people, I mean if Jesus was there he would have chastised those who called her that and probably raised her from the dead to further prove his point.

[American Imperial State]

this guy was just crazy, he probably would have beaten his wife to death for being Satan, too.

It wasn't satan. Exactly what it was i cannot say, since i'm not sure what can be said without crossing the so-called 'trolling' line
(read: opposing points of view people emotionally disagree with.)

[New Axiom]

I really hate it when people use Christianity as an excuse to hate people, I mean if Jesus was there he would have chastised those who called her that and probably raised her from the dead to further prove his point.

Doubt it. Remember, Jesus said men shall not lay with men.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

I really hate it when people use Christianity as an excuse to hate people, I mean if Jesus was there he would have chastised those who called her that and probably raised her from the dead to further prove his point.

Doubt it. Remember, Jesus said men shall not lay with men.

A) Jesus never said that. That was supposedly Paul although the translation of the word is preetttyyyy questionable

B) Jesus actually stopped people from stoning a literal adulteress, so he kinda doesn't like this shit even if the persons a sinner

C) Even if A and B didn't exist, man laying with man has jack shit to do with this because the person murdered was a woman.

[United Marxist Nations]

Doubt it. Remember, Jesus said men shall not lay with men.

A) Jesus never said that. That was supposedly Paul although the translation of the word is preetttyyyy questionable

B) Jesus actually stopped people from stoning a literal adulteress, so he kinda doesn't like this shit even if the persons a sinner

C) Even if A and B didn't exist, man laying with man has jack shit to do with this because the person murdered was a woman.

The translation is not questionable, literally every single group with any authority on the matter agrees about what it says and always has.

/endthreadjack

[Camicon]

A) Jesus never said that. That was supposedly Paul although the translation of the word is preetttyyyy questionable

B) Jesus actually stopped people from stoning a literal adulteress, so he kinda doesn't like this shit even if the persons a sinner

C) Even if A and B didn't exist, man laying with man has jack shit to do with this because the person murdered was a woman.

The translation is not questionable, literally every single group with any authority on the matter agrees about what it says and always has.

/endthreadjack

It's not a threadjack. Religions are notoriously terrible to the LGBT+ community, and the reasons for their bigotry are entirely relevant.

That said, no books in the New Testament were written during the lifetime of Jesus, and almost certainly not by anyone who knew him personally. They are second-hand stories, translated and altered innumerable times in unknowable ways, and arbitrarily included and excluded by people who use circular logic to justify their supreme authority. If you're looking for a factually correct and reliable book the Bible is not it.

[United Marxist Nations]

The translation is not questionable, literally every single group with any authority on the matter agrees about what it says and always has.

/endthreadjack

It's not a threadjack. Religions are notoriously terrible to the LGBT+ community, and the reasons for their bigotry are entirely relevant.

That said, no books in the New Testament were written during the lifetime of Jesus, and almost certainly not by anyone who knew him personally. They are second-hand stories, translated and altered innumerable times in unknowable ways, and arbitrarily included and excluded by people who use circular logic to justify their supreme authority. If you're looking for a factually correct and reliable book the Bible is not it.

The books come from the tradition of the Church, their inclusion was not arbitrary.

And yes, it is a threadjack to debate Christian doctrine.

[Kelinfort]

A) Jesus never said that. That was supposedly Paul although the translation of the word is preetttyyyy questionable

B) Jesus actually stopped people from stoning a literal adulteress, so he kinda doesn't like this shit even if the persons a sinner

C) Even if A and B didn't exist, man laying with man has jack shit to do with this because the person murdered was a woman.

The translation is not questionable, literally every single group with any authority on the matter agrees about what it says and always has.

/endthreadjack

I agree. Which is why I am no longer a Christian.

[New Axiom]

The translation is not questionable, literally every single group with any authority on the matter agrees about what it says and always has.

/endthreadjack

I agree. Which is why I am no longer a Christian.

HERESY!!!!!!

Jk.

I believe the abrahamic God exists, and choose to follow Cristianity, but I am not so judge mental towards people. That's Gods job.

[The New Sea Territory]

[
When we factor in the degree of rape, poverty, harassment, assault, and discrimination....murder is just one part of, and points to, the much bigger problems within society regarding transgender people. The fact that these incidents are often hate crimes, and a part of the greater rhetoric of violence against transgender people, is supplementary to this as well.

It's actually pointing to the opposite. See you can't use the fact that you're less likely than the average person to be murdered as evidence of a problem.

There have been over 10,000 homicides this year, if transgender people are nearly 1% of the population they're due nearly 100 murders.

Homicides =/= hate crimes.

r/badstatistics

[Des-Bal]

> Man calls a woman the Devil because she is transgender.
> Man kills woman while calling her the Devil

I am not in the habit of assuming to know a person's motivations better than they do, and this murderer made it pretty goddamn clear what his motivations were.

The problem is less that transsexual people die (everyone dies) and more that they are being killed specifically because they are transgender.

I'm saying that we're not seeing the whole picture because of a reporting bias that everything indicates should exist, and because of a systemic bias that absolutely and undoubtedly does exist.

Ohio doesn't classify this as a hate crime. Ohio is not alone in this regard. You see the same kind of problem with rape statistics; rape statistics for males are incredibly unreliable unless you classify "being made to penetrate" as rape, which almost nobody does.

I'm not asking you to. I'm asking you to acknowledge that the picture is unclear, and playing down the severity of this incident and others like it helps absolutely nobody.

Again, transgender people are going to die. The problem is that when transgender people are murdered it is almost certainly because they are transgender. When a white woman dies it is almost certainly not because she was targeted as a white woman.

We know that the suicide rate among transgenders is astronomically higher than everyone else. We know that their chances of being physically and verbally abused are astronomically higher than everyone. We don't know the exact extent to which they are murdered because of their gender because the structures and systems we have in place to monitor that sort of thing are failing in that task; set aside the reporting bias, only 17 American states have hate crime laws that cover transgender individuals. Less than half of the Union doesn't track hate crimes against transgender people, because they don't consider that specific kind of bigotry a hate crime.

You absolutely fucking are assuming, the guy lived in the house. Why did he pick that moment to shoot her? Assuming that it was a hate crime full stop is a leap and it is not one I'm personally taking until more facts emerge.

I am done hearing that transgender people are almost always killed for their identity without some kind of substantiation. You're presenting information and making inferences that have nothing to do with the information.

Is it in any way possible that the idea that transgender people are constantly being murdered might be causing people to moderate their behavior out of fear? I'd say that's harm. Insisting a problem exists with no evidence and denying any evidence that it doesn't is dangerous business.

[Grenartia]

It's not a threadjack. Religions are notoriously terrible to the LGBT+ community, and the reasons for their bigotry are entirely relevant.

That said, no books in the New Testament were written during the lifetime of Jesus, and almost certainly not by anyone who knew him personally. They are second-hand stories, translated and altered innumerable times in unknowable ways, and arbitrarily included and excluded by people who use circular logic to justify their supreme authority. If you're looking for a factually correct and reliable book the Bible is not it.

1. The books come from the tradition of the Church, their inclusion was not arbitrary.

2. And yes, it is a threadjack to debate Christian doctrine.

1. The translations and interpretations are highly questionable indeed.

2. Not as it relates to the factors that cause people to murder trans people.