Opinions on Muslim Ban

[Brilliania]

Islam is the number 1 religion of terrorists. Islam is a degenerate religion. Also, the Quran states that Muhammad had sex with a 9-year old.

[Nacesa Plana]

Also, McVeigh was an agnostic. So getting rid of the religious people won't end terrorism.

A safety belt doesn’t safe all the lives. However, still a lot. It's wise to use your safety belt.

[Kronstad]

Deport all religious people to the moon. All of them. And worldwide please.

It’s ok to believe in an invisible imaginary friend who created all and everything. When you’re 9-years old.
It’s not when you’re an adult.

They are all the same. Sooner or later they start wars about who’s having the best religion or who’s the real Muslim, Christian or whatever.

They want to be near their invisible imaginary friend? Let us, atheists help them. Send them to the moon. Without an SOS.

As an atheist, although I hate the idea itself, I have to agree.
I've never heard of any religion that doesn't want to eventually conquer the world or eliminate all non-believers, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Scientology or Mormonism.
I don't think Buddhism wants us all to become buddhists but their whole system wants people to become "enlightened" by essentially becoming lifeless (denying desire and emotions), so there's that.

tl;dr all religions say "you are either with us or a mortal enemy"

[Nariterrr]

Islam is the number 1 religion of terrorists. Islam is a degenerate religion. Also, the Quran states that Muhammad had sex with a 9-year old.

Depends on what you regard as a terrorists. Considering that Muslims only commit 0.6% of all crime in Europe...

[Equalaria]

This is disgusting- why would we ban people that have been subject to colonial abuses at the hands of the white establishment for centuries? Banning Muslims totally is completely bigoted and hateful, it only proves how cruel white patriarchy is when they cause these problems, only to turn away the victims of abuses perpetrated by the white power establishment. Refugees need to be treated with compassion and tolerance, as diversity is our strength. This hate speech needs to stop, and should be punished criminally. Muslims aren't the issue, it's white racist men like Donald trump causing all these problems.

[Hurdergaryp]

Background info

Do they record what religion you are, I didn't know they did that.

Many countries actually mention the religion of the citizen in their passports, which is not optional. Indonesia and Egypt tend to do that, for example. Non-denominational is not an option over there, by the way.

[Central European Commonwealth]

I dislike Islam for many of the same reasons why I dislike Christianity.

However, discrimination of people based on whatever nonsense they believe in is never an answer. Education is, and stopping propping up the vilest religious dictatorships in the world will also come a long way.

So not only will what Donald Trump is proposing be counterproductive, giving radical Islamists more ammo to use in their recruiting efforts against the West - as the US will have come out officially as a Muslim-hating nation, it will also erode the liberties of the non-Muslim population by setting a powerful precedent. Donald Trump might just be thinking about giving the lowest possible denominator something bread and games to cheer about while boosting his ratings at the expense of a religious group, he will also lead the United States, and eventually the West, down a path which hasn't been followed for the last 80 years or so.

[Hurdergaryp]

I dislike Islam for many of the same reasons why I dislike Christianity.

However, discrimination of people based on whatever nonsense they believe in is never an answer. Education is, and stopping propping up the vilest religious dictatorships in the world will also come a long way.

So not only will what Donald Trump is proposing be counterproductive, giving radical Islamists more ammo to use in their recruiting efforts against the West - as the US will have come out officially as a Muslim-hating nation, it will also erode the liberties of the non-Muslim population by setting a powerful precedent. Donald Trump might just be thinking about giving the lowest possible denominator something bread and games to cheer about while boosting his ratings at the expense of a religious group, he will also lead the United States, and eventually the West, down a path which hasn't been followed for the last 80 years or so.

Trump slept with a book of Hitler's speeches on his bedside for a decade, so it is not as if it comes as a surprise.

[Catalonia Imparapla]

Well, you can only enter Meccah if you're a Muslim, so it's not like they're not doing it already.

Besides, Islam is not compatible with the western values of freedom of worship and equality. I'd say a ban on Muslims is not what we need, but we need to know what is being taught at the mosques and madrasas, which are breeding grounds for radicalized islamists. Have a government official that can understand Arabic and place him in there. Hell, you're even creating jobs for those that can speak Arabic.

[Azurius]

Deport all religious people to the moon. All of them. And worldwide please.

It’s ok to believe in an invisible imaginary friend who created all and everything. When you’re 9-years old.
It’s not when you’re an adult.

They are all the same. Sooner or later they start wars about who’s having the best religion or who’s the real Muslim, Christian or whatever.

They want to be near their invisible imaginary friend? Let us, atheists help them. Send them to the moon. Without an SOS.

As an atheist, although I hate the idea itself, I have to agree.
I've never heard of any religion that doesn't want to eventually conquer the world or eliminate all non-believers, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Scientology or Mormonism.
I don't think Buddhism wants us all to become buddhists but their whole system wants people to become "enlightened" by essentially becoming lifeless (denying desire and emotions), so there's that.

tl;dr all religions say "you are either with us or a mortal enemy"

Would have to agree here as well though I am not an atheists but actually a spiritualist myself. However you will find there are great differences between religion and spiritiuality. Whilst spirituality encourages you to think, learn and enlighten yourself, also better yourself as a human(or soul) etc.

All religion does is press you into a set of fixed and stubborn dogmatic thinking and rules, turning you into a mindless servant of the system. Every religion I saw without any exception at all, is a tool to make people gullible, docile and keep them stupid so that some fatcats at the top can rule over them. And the worst thing is: Thanks to religion you won´t even fight against that exploitation but instead readily accept it!

Some examples, christianity: Be obedient and follow the laws of the bible(that are written by mankind and set by some priests or popes and not by god but nevermind that) and let yourself be exploited or you will go to hell.

Buddhism(modern day budhism, older forms of budhism can be very different here)/hindiusm: Be obedient and let yourself be exploited by the fatcats at the top, turn your cheek and do not resist that exploitation, instead throw them even more money or ressources down their throats! Do that and you will be rich and live like a king in your next life. Oh also the only reason you are poor and exploited is because originally you were a "bad person" in your last live/s and hence deserve beeing treated like some cattle or a slave.

What kind of nonsense...Also nevermind that re-incarnation originally in all spiritual teachings never worked that way. Re-incarnation rather works like this:

Your soul has things to learn to be able to mature and reach the next step of re-incarnation into a so called "higher" beeing. Humans already are pretty high and complex beeings and already are above animals, insects or plants. The aim and goal however for every soul is to aim ever higher, and the next step after a human would be in fact a god/godly beeing, something our minds as humans also can hardly even begin to comrehend.

If you need to live as a poor person to learn certain lessons and things to achieve that, then so be it, and no matter how "good of a person" you are, you will end up as a poor beggar in your next re-incarnation again and again, same goes for wealthy people, if you need to be wealthy to learn whatever so be it and eventually you will see several incarnations as a wealthy person, no matter what of a good person or an asshole you are.

This cycle continues endlessly until you have reached perfection and are ready for the next step of incarnation.

Now look at what modern budhism and hinduism made out of that concept. They made a tool out of that to merely keep people stupid, docile and obedient to the upperclass so that they readily let themselves be exploited without resisting.

[Vassenor]

Do they record what religion you are, I didn't know they did that.

Many countries actually mention the religion of the citizen in their passports, which is not optional. Indonesia and Egypt tend to do that, for example. Non-denominational is not an option over there, by the way.

Not all do though.

[Rainar]

So in light of Donald Trump as the Republican Nominee, the Muslim ban as once again come under fire and support. With the rise of terrorists and terror attacks, the opinion on Muslims have dipped. My opinion is that when you bar certain people and or make them feel like they are dangerous, they will strike back. A good example being the French Wars of Religion. If we alienate Muslims, terrorists will seek to radicalize them. But I do support making the vetting process stronger.

What is your opinion, NationStates?

You cannot betray Muslims.

[Esternial]

Plenty of adults without any religion can decide to turn themselves to religious scripture and develop a belief in God, which often but not exclusively happens after some kind of tragedy.

In the same way people can develop and change their political spectrum by reading or listening, the same applies to one's religious beliefs.

Not that hard to grasp, really.

Sure. Like tons of people start believing one day in the Norse mythology? Oh wait...

Because it's not a mainstream religion, and hardly a religion at all. When you've gone through a tragedy you're more likely to find a Christians self-help group than one following a pagan Norse religion, unless you've been living under a rock for several ages.

[Hurdergaryp]

Many countries actually mention the religion of the citizen in their passports, which is not optional. Indonesia and Egypt tend to do that, for example. Non-denominational is not an option over there, by the way.

Not all do though.

Western countries tend not to bother with such details, because it doesn't make a citizen any different for the law.

[Azurius]

Well, you can only enter Meccah if you're a Muslim, so it's not like they're not doing it already.

Besides, Islam is not compatible with the western values of freedom of worship and equality. I'd say a ban on Muslims is not what we need, but we need to know what is being taught at the mosques and madrasas, which are breeding grounds for radicalized islamists. Have a government official that can understand Arabic and place him in there. Hell, you're even creating jobs for those that can speak Arabic.

Christianity isn´t either. Nor is it even part of european culture in fact, celtism, paganism etc. would be.

So should we now also ban christianity as well? Yeah let´s ban anything we don´t like! Good idea and has in history always worked out just greatly

And false again, muslim extremists are not bred and raised inside mosques, but in fact in rural areas or secret meeting spots by underground extremist groups.

[Nariterrr]

Well, you can only enter Meccah if you're a Muslim, so it's not like they're not doing it already.

Besides, Islam is not compatible with the western values of freedom of worship and equality. I'd say a ban on Muslims is not what we need, but we need to know what is being taught at the mosques and madrasas, which are breeding grounds for radicalized islamists. Have a government official that can understand Arabic and place him in there. Hell, you're even creating jobs for those that can speak Arabic.

Muslims can only enter Mecca for two reasons -

1) It's a holy site, not a country.
2) The Saudi Government is concerned for tourist safety because it is very crowded.

Religion is general is not compatible with Western values, singling out Islam does nothing.

[Catalonia Imparapla]

So should we now also ban christianity as well? Yeah let´s ban anything we don´t like! Good idea and has in history always worked out just greatly

Actually, the thing Christianity has going for itself is that it went through a lot of reform movements that eventually changed it to what it is today.

As far as I know, there hasn't been a single meaningful reform movement in Islam. The only country where Islam was starting to turn more and more to western values was Turkey, due to Ataturk's great reforms, but it seems like Erdogan has trashed all of that now.

1) It's a holy site, not a country.
2) The Saudi Government is concerned for tourist safety because it is very crowded.

1) Actually, it's a city, not a holy site. It has 2 million inhabitants. That's like saying Rome is a holy site.

2) If I'm not mistaken, the ban on non-Muslims applies even outside of Haj and Ramzan. This is an obvious case of discrimination, there's no other way to look at it.

[Nariterrr]

So should we now also ban christianity as well? Yeah let´s ban anything we don´t like! Good idea and has in history always worked out just greatly

Actually, the thing Christianity has going for itself is that it went through a lot of reform movements that eventually changed it to what it is today.

As far as I know, there hasn't been a single meaningful reform movement in Islam. The only country where Islam was starting to turn more and more to western values was Turkey, due to Ataturk's great reforms, but it seems like Erdogan has trashed all of that now.

1) It's a holy site, not a country.
2) The Saudi Government is concerned for tourist safety because it is very crowded.

1) Actually, it's a city, not a holy site. It has 2 million inhabitants. That's like saying Rome is a holy site.

2) If I'm not mistaken, the ban on non-Muslims applies even outside of Haj and Ramzan. This is an obvious case of discrimination, there's no other way to look at it.

1) It is a city, which is also a holy site

2) It is, but discrimination in holy site for tourist safety reasons is different from discrimination in a whole nation

[Azurius]

So should we now also ban christianity as well? Yeah let´s ban anything we don´t like! Good idea and has in history always worked out just greatly

Actually, the thing Christianity has going for itself is that it went through a lot of reform movements that eventually changed it to what it is today.

As far as I know, there hasn't been a single meaningful reform movement in Islam. The only country where Islam was starting to turn more and more to western values was Turkey, due to Ataturk's great reforms, but it seems like Erdogan has trashed all of that now.

1) It's a holy site, not a country.
2) The Saudi Government is concerned for tourist safety because it is very crowded.

1) Actually, it's a city, not a holy site. It has 2 million inhabitants. That's like saying Rome is a holy site.

2) If I'm not mistaken, the ban on non-Muslims applies even outside of Haj and Ramzan. This is an obvious case of discrimination, there's no other way to look at it.

And that is utterly false, both shia and sunni muslim changed multiple times and reformed themselves multiple times through the course of history. Maybe not as often as christianity yes, but it still has reformed itself multiple times nonetheless.

False again, even under Erdogan Turkey remains in that sense very progressive and reformed, it has moved back to more conservative policies yes, but islam itself in Turkey remains reformed and very different from their arabic counterparts. Hell persians are also different from arabs and also follow their own and different set of doctrines on islam. So what you are saying here is utterly false.

Also it doesn´t matter how often christianity or anything else was reformed anyway, fact remains that christianity actually is incompatible with our western values and that is a fact.

[Mabbralia]

A ban on all Muslims is not realistic or a good idea for a few reasons:

1) You don't know who is and who isn't Muslim. Many Muslims do not wear religious garments and do not look "Arab-looking". Attempting to figure out if every single person who is in or enters the country is a Muslim would cost a ridiculous amount of money and would cause law enforcement to be distracted from actual crime (including terrorist attacks), which means this might actually be counter-productive.
2) There are over 3 million Muslims in the United States and many of them were born there which makes them natural-born American citizens and therefore exempt from deportation.
3) It would feed into the "The West/America vs Islam" narrative that ISIL and countless other Islamic terrorist organizations use to recruit people by creating more anti-Western sentiment (especially anti-American sentiment) in the Middle East and around the world. Also if you deport millions of Muslims back to war-torn countries with high rates of unemployment and poverty, then again, this makes them more susceptible to radicalization.

I would say the main solution to combating domestic terrorism would be strengthening the vetting process and increasing security and law enforcement, especially during major events and in areas more likely to be attacked.

[Catalonia Imparapla]

1) It is a city, which is also a holy site

2) It is, but discrimination in holy site for tourist safety reasons is different from discrimination in a whole nation

Jerusalem (the country, not the city) was also considered the "Holy Land" some time ago, was it not? People go on pilgrimage there as well, from Christians to Jews, too, so not only one religion.

And yet, Muslims aren't banned from entering Israel due to "tourist safety reasons", are they?

Still, I am not blaming Islam for the discrimination in Meccah, but Saudi Arabia, and more specifically the House of Saud. It is well known that they're financing extremist Islam movements, and not only in the west. Forty years ago, the Middle East wasn't as f*cked up as it is today, and it's all because of their political play.

[Risottia]

So in light of Donald Trump as the Republican Nominee, the Muslim ban as once again come under fire and support. With the rise of terrorists and terror attacks, the opinion on Muslims have dipped. My opinion is that when you bar certain people and or make them feel like they are dangerous, they will strike back. A good example being the French Wars of Religion. If we alienate Muslims, terrorists will seek to radicalize them. But I do support making the vetting process stronger.

What is your opinion, NationStates?

The "Muslim ban" cannot happen in America as it is unconstitutional and the SCotUS will strike it down. Failing that, it would mean that the Constitution of the US is forfeit, hence the Government of Canada, in the name of Her British Majesty, will revoke the Treaty of Paris, remove tupee from the premises, and install the Rt.Hon. Hillary, the 1st Baroness Rodham-Clinton, Order of the Roddon, CBE, DCMG as Provisional Viceroy of America, pending the approval of the Acts of Union between the Crown of Canada and the Crown of America, which shall thenceforth be known as the United Dominion.

[The first Galactic Republic]

I think a good option would be to ban travel to and from nations that terror attacks commonly originate from. Like: Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc...

That feel when people born in first world countries radicalize anyway.

[Hansdeltania]

I fail to see how it would be possible to ban Muslims from entering the US. For example, my family is Vietnamese, and we often get mistaken as Filipino or Indonesian. Both of those countries have some number of Muslims and some level of Islamic terrorism, which means that you cannot tell if they are Muslim or not. Likewise, there are Arab Christians, and if you restrict them from coming in by race, the UN might have a very strong condemnation prepared, and the Arab countries might cut off the oil supply like they did in 1973.

[Internationalist Bastard]

It's moronic to assume it'll stop kids already living here from radicalizing.