Russia banned from Rio?

[Gatito]

It goes like this:

America doesn't like Russia.

Olympic games are coming up.

America will use its gigantic influence and the influence of its puppet state to prevent Russia from participating.

Woo-hoo! You've got corruption.

What did America do specifically to get Russia banned?

Specifically, they influenced the decision made by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

[Alvecia]

What did America do specifically to get Russia banned?

Specifically, they influenced the decision made by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

This is known how?

[Geilinor]

What did America do specifically to get Russia banned?

Specifically, they influenced the decision made by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

In what way? By bribing WADA? By threatening to pull out of WADA?

[Internationalist Bastard]

So? It seems unfair to the athletes who love Russia and want to run for her, but worked hard and didn't cheat.

There is a neutral team for them to compete in, incidentally. (It's for athletes who object to a particular state or who identify with a nation not legally recognized. It usually gets about one or two people.)
Nobody is forcing them to compete for Russia.

RUSSIA has been banned from competing. Not necessarily their non-doped athletes.

But what I'm saying is they want to compete for Russia. You can love your country and disaprove of the government.

[Khadgar]

What did America do specifically to get Russia banned?

Specifically, they influenced the decision made by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Did the evil Americans also fabricate the evidence of Russian cheating? Or did they somehow force the poor innocent Russians to cheat?

[Geilinor]

There is a neutral team for them to compete in, incidentally. (It's for athletes who object to a particular state or who identify with a nation not legally recognized. It usually gets about one or two people.)
Nobody is forcing them to compete for Russia.

RUSSIA has been banned from competing. Not necessarily their non-doped athletes.

But what I'm saying is they want to compete for Russia. You can love your country and disaprove of the government.

They can compete, just not for Russia. That seems fair until the doping issue is sorted out.

[Ostroeuropa]

There is a neutral team for them to compete in, incidentally. (It's for athletes who object to a particular state or who identify with a nation not legally recognized. It usually gets about one or two people.)
Nobody is forcing them to compete for Russia.

RUSSIA has been banned from competing. Not necessarily their non-doped athletes.

But what I'm saying is they want to compete for Russia. You can love your country and disaprove of the government.

In what sense are they being punished then, if the olympics refuses to allow people to compete for a country which cheated the rules?
Don't forget, the allegation is that Russia cheated. Not all its athletes. That the state actively engaged in doping.
If thats true, it strikes me as appropriate to ban Russia as a team, and allow its non-doped athletes to compete under the neutral flag.

It might suck for them, but its fair. Just because you always dreamed of winning the gold with your teammate, doesnt make it unfair to you if your teammate is banned because they cheated, but you are still allowed to compete with others.

[Gatito]

Specifically, they influenced the decision made by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

In what way? By bribing WADA? By threatening to pull out of WADA?

America and Canada were the original accusers of Russian doping.

[Shofercia]

That's not what's happening right now.

That's not what the president of the IOC is saying.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/36581397

Except I charged WADA with racism. WADA. Not IOC. But if I must: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/22/sport ... field.html

An appeals court on Thursday upheld the ban on Russia’s track and field team from the Rio Olympics, empowering sports organizations to discipline other Russian teams after revelations of a government-run doping scheme.

Interesting how you are willingly admitting that the Russian government was involved in helping its athletes dope, and yet you refuse to admit that western governments were involved in the decision by the Olympic administration to ban Russia.

This is what you call bias.

Enforcing the rules is not bias.

So enforcing the segregation rules isn't bias? C'mon, if they just banned those who were previously caught doping, fine. But they're banning clean athletes too.

Why not just ban the athletes found to be on roids? Why block all Russian competition from Track and Field?

Because WADA are a bunch of racist pricks.

[Freefall11111]

In what way? By bribing WADA? By threatening to pull out of WADA?

America and Canada were the original accusers of Russian doping.

And?

[Shofercia]

So? It seems unfair to the athletes who love Russia and want to run for her, but worked hard and didn't cheat.

There is a neutral team for them to compete in, incidentally. (It's for athletes who object to a particular state or who identify with a nation not legally recognized. It usually gets about one or two people.)
Nobody is forcing them to compete for Russia.

RUSSIA has been banned from competing. Not necessarily their non-doped athletes.

Actually Isinbayeva has been banned from competing. Even independently. So are a lot of other Russian athletes. For doing nothing wrong, but merely because they were born in Russia.

[Geilinor]

So enforcing the segregation rules isn't bias? C'mon, if they just banned those who were previously caught doping, fine. But they're banning clean athletes too.

Why not just ban the athletes found to be on roids? Why block all Russian competition from Track and Field?

Because WADA are a bunch of racist pricks.

Segregation? That is an outlandish comparison.

[Gatito]

Specifically, they influenced the decision made by the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Did the evil Americans also fabricate the evidence of Russian cheating? Or did they somehow force the poor innocent Russians to cheat?

I'd wager that almost all of the athletes are cheating in some way. It's just a matter of who gets caught.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Prove the corruption in this case first and then we'll talk.

It goes like this:

America doesn't like Russia.

Olympic games are coming up.

America will use its gigantic influence and the influence of its puppet state to prevent Russia from participating.

Woo-hoo! You've got corruption.

You know what else is corruption? Letting countries drug their athletes.

You know what both of these claims need? More proof.

[Gatito]

So enforcing the segregation rules isn't bias? C'mon, if they just banned those who were previously caught doping, fine. But they're banning clean athletes too.




Because WADA are a bunch of racist pricks.

Segregation? That is an outlandish comparison.

Uh, no it's not. Take one country out, you're segregating it from the rest.

[Ostroeuropa]

There is a neutral team for them to compete in, incidentally. (It's for athletes who object to a particular state or who identify with a nation not legally recognized. It usually gets about one or two people.)
Nobody is forcing them to compete for Russia.

RUSSIA has been banned from competing. Not necessarily their non-doped athletes.

Actually Isinbayeva has been banned from competing. Even independently. So are a lot of other Russian athletes. For doing nothing wrong, but merely because they were born in Russia.

If true, that's clearly unacceptable even if you accept the premise that Russia actively engaged in doping.

[Freefall11111]

Did the evil Americans also fabricate the evidence of Russian cheating? Or did they somehow force the poor innocent Russians to cheat?

I'd wager that almost all of the athletes are cheating in some way. It's just a matter of who gets caught.

Wagers are nice. Evidence is better.

[Internationalist Bastard]

But what I'm saying is they want to compete for Russia. You can love your country and disaprove of the government.

In what sense are they being punished then, if the olympics refuses to allow people to compete for a country which cheated the rules?
Don't forget, the allegation is that Russia cheated. Not all its athletes. That the state actively engaged in doping.
If thats true, it strikes me as appropriate to ban Russia as a team, and allow its non-doped athletes to compete under the neutral flag.

It might suck for them, but its fair. Just because you always dreamed of winning the gold with your teammate, doesnt make it unfair to you if your teammate is banned because they cheated, but you are still allowed to compete with others.

Yeah, it does ruin the dream for people.
I love the Olympics because it promotes healthy and fun competition between nations and allows one healthy and fun pride in their own.
To deny someone the right to play for the nation they want to play for is denying them a big part of why they wanted to compete in the first place.

[Dragonia Re Xzua]

So enforcing the segregation rules isn't bias? C'mon, if they just banned those who were previously caught doping, fine. But they're banning clean athletes too.




Because WADA are a bunch of racist pricks.

Segregation? That is an outlandish comparison.

Banning an entire nation just because a few dope heads were found is more outlandish.

[Geilinor]

Segregation? That is an outlandish comparison.

Uh, no it's not. Take one country out, you're segregating it from the rest.

This situation has no parallels with racial segregation.

[Shofercia]

There is a neutral team for them to compete in, incidentally. (It's for athletes who object to a particular state or who identify with a nation not legally recognized. It usually gets about one or two people.)
Nobody is forcing them to compete for Russia.

RUSSIA has been banned from competing. Not necessarily their non-doped athletes.

But what I'm saying is they want to compete for Russia. You can love your country and disaprove of the government.

Not according to WADA.

But what I'm saying is they want to compete for Russia. You can love your country and disaprove of the government.

They can compete, just not for Russia. That seems fair until the doping issue is sorted out.

No, they cannot. If they trained in Russia, according to WADA, they cannot compete. Not even independently.

So enforcing the segregation rules isn't bias? C'mon, if they just banned those who were previously caught doping, fine. But they're banning clean athletes too.




Because WADA are a bunch of racist pricks.

Segregation? That is an outlandish comparison.

Is it? Our athletes can drink from this fountain. Yours cannot. Our athletes can compete at Rio. Yours cannot. Look, if Russia's athletes were allowed to compete independently, I'd be fine with that. If only Russia's athletes who were always clean and never doped were allowed to compete, I'd be fine that. But neither is the case. Thanks to WADA.

[Geilinor]

The allegations did not originate from the US and Canada but from German public broadcasting.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/dec/03/russia-accused-athletics-doping-cover-up-olympics

[The first Galactic Republic]

Segregation? That is an outlandish comparison.

Banning an entire nation just because a few dope heads were found is more outlandish.

You don't understand. The claim is that the government is behind it. It's not the athletes doing it. It's not even a case of the country ignoring it. The government itself is doing it, is the claim.

Edit: Oh clean athletes can't compete at all then? That's a bit more unfair.

[Ostroeuropa]

In what sense are they being punished then, if the olympics refuses to allow people to compete for a country which cheated the rules?
Don't forget, the allegation is that Russia cheated. Not all its athletes. That the state actively engaged in doping.
If thats true, it strikes me as appropriate to ban Russia as a team, and allow its non-doped athletes to compete under the neutral flag.

It might suck for them, but its fair. Just because you always dreamed of winning the gold with your teammate, doesnt make it unfair to you if your teammate is banned because they cheated, but you are still allowed to compete with others.

Yeah, it does ruin the dream for people.
I love the Olympics because it promotes healthy and fun competition between nations and allows one healthy and fun pride in their own.
To deny someone the right to play for the nation they want to play for is denying them a big part of why they wanted to compete in the first place.

If the nation cheated, they should be banned.
Like I said.

My dream might be to win a gold medal with my team. But if a member of my team cheated, they should be banned, and it isn't unfair to me for that to be the case. It might suck, but those are the rules.
Nothing prevents me getting another team member to fill their slot.

[Shofercia]

Actually Isinbayeva has been banned from competing. Even independently. So are a lot of other Russian athletes. For doing nothing wrong, but merely because they were born in Russia.

If true, that's clearly unacceptable even if you accept the premise that Russia actively engaged in doping.

It is true. Hence the outrage.