Russia banned from Rio?

[Novus America]

Russian strong, I see. I wonder if there'll be any polite green men showing up in Rio.

I'm sarcastically glad that you find racism so entertaining.

Umm while I know you like saying racism every other sentence, this is not racism.

Because Russian is not a race! It does not only apply to "white" Russians or "asian" Russians or "black" Russians. Nationality =/= race. Nor does it apply to ethnic Russians from outside Russia.

Russia is not a race, and ethinic Russians outside of Russia are not effected. It is not racist.

And obviously you object to Russia being held accountable. But unless you have actual evidence of some ulterior motive, not just "I am mad, ergo ebul West" we have no reason to believe you. Simply saying there could be a ebul motive does not mean one exists.

Ummm Russian is an ethnicity. Claiming that ethnic Russians outside of Russia aren't affected, is like the KKK claiming that ethnic blacks in the North are not affected, ergo they cannot be racist. Most Russians train in... you guessed it - Russia! The Grandfather Clause was racism, stop trying to pretend otherwise.

And if you want to hold Russia, the country, accountable, by all means, but athletes shouldn't be punished solely because of their birthplace. Apparently saying that automatically makes me a Putin Apologist in your eyes. And a racist prick doesn't need motive to be a racist prick, much like an alcoholic doesn't need motive to consume alcohol. It's really not that complex.

Why is Russia upset that its Track and Field athletes have been spared having to go to the 2016 Biohazard Olympics?

Because that should be the choice of the athletes.

Umm ethnicity does not equal race. Russian is not a race. Moreover ethnic Russians outsides Russia are not affected. And it does not ban people born in Russia! People born in Russia no longer living or training there are not affected either. So it has nothing to do with race. Targeting a state is not necessarily racism.

Your misrepresentations do not well reflect what actually happened.

Oh and first of all a motive does not equal guilt. And racism is itself a motive. You last sentence makes no sense whatsoever. And proves nothing. Your circular logic is circular.

[Shofercia]

I'm sarcastically glad that you find racism so entertaining.




Ummm Russian is an ethnicity. Claiming that ethnic Russians outside of Russia aren't affected, is like the KKK claiming that ethnic blacks in the North are not affected, ergo they cannot be racist. Most Russians train in... you guessed it - Russia! The Grandfather Clause was racism, stop trying to pretend otherwise.

And if you want to hold Russia, the country, accountable, by all means, but athletes shouldn't be punished solely because of their birthplace. Apparently saying that automatically makes me a Putin Apologist in your eyes. And a racist prick doesn't need motive to be a racist prick, much like an alcoholic doesn't need motive to consume alcohol. It's really not that complex.




Because that should be the choice of the athletes.

Umm ethnicity does not equal race. Russian is not a race. Moreover ethnic Russians outsides Russia are not affected. And it does not ban people born in Russia! People born in Russia no longer living or training there are not affected either. So it has nothing to do with race. Targeting a state is not necessarily racism.

Your misrepresentations do not well reflect what actually happened.

Oh and first of all a motive does not equal guilt. And racism is itself a motive. You last sentence makes no sense whatsoever. And proves nothing. Your circular logic is circular.

Wow, when I was studying how the Mississippi Plan worked, I remember similar arguments. After all, it applies to everyone, and African Americans in the North can vote, so clearly, not racism, right? Your apologia is utterly pathetic.

Moreover ethnic Russians outsides Russia are not affected.

And yet, amazingly enough, most ethnic Russians live in Russia, and are affected. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Plan clearly applied to the South, so surely it wasn't racist, since blacks in the North weren't affected by it. That's essentially what you're arguing with that line.

And it does not ban people born in Russia! People born in Russia no longer living or training there are not affected either.

See above. The Mississippi Plan had nothing to do with people born in the South, and living in the North. So clearly, according to Novus America, it wasn't racist.

Targeting a state is not necessarily racism.

Right, but I'm NOT talking about targeting a state. I'm talking about targeting Human Beings. Ethnic Russian Athletes who train in Russia and never doped, cannot even compete under an independent IOC banner. That's the crux of the issue. They banned Mutko, no one gave a shit. Not even sure why athletes would want to claim that second-best is worthy of a Gold Medal, but that'll now be the case, thanks to the morons at WADA.

And of course you add legalese junk, such as claiming that Russian is not a race, so it cannot be racism, even though Russian is an ethnicity, and ethnic based discrimination is just as bad as racism.

[Novus America]

Umm ethnicity does not equal race. Russian is not a race. Moreover ethnic Russians outsides Russia are not affected. And it does not ban people born in Russia! People born in Russia no longer living or training there are not affected either. So it has nothing to do with race. Targeting a state is not necessarily racism.

Your misrepresentations do not well reflect what actually happened.

Oh and first of all a motive does not equal guilt. And racism is itself a motive. You last sentence makes no sense whatsoever. And proves nothing. Your circular logic is circular.

Wow, when I was studying how the Mississippi Plan worked, I remember similar arguments. After all, it applies to everyone, and African Americans in the North can vote, so clearly, not racism, right? Your apologia is utterly pathetic.

Moreover ethnic Russians outsides Russia are not affected.

And yet, amazingly enough, most ethnic Russians live in Russia, and are affected. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Plan clearly applied to the South, so surely it wasn't racist, since blacks in the North weren't affected by it. That's essentially what you're arguing with that line.

And it does not ban people born in Russia! People born in Russia no longer living or training there are not affected either.

See above. The Mississippi Plan had nothing to do with people born in the South, and living in the North. So clearly, according to Novus America, it wasn't racist.

Targeting a state is not necessarily racism.

Right, but I'm NOT talking about targeting a state. I'm talking about targeting Human Beings. Ethnic Russian Athletes who train in Russia and never doped, cannot even compete under an independent IOC banner. That's the crux of the issue. They banned Mutko, no one gave a shit. Not even sure why athletes would want to claim that second-best is worthy of a Gold Medal, but that'll now be the case, thanks to the morons at WADA.

And of course you add legalese junk, such as claiming that Russian is not a race, so it cannot be racism, even though Russian is an ethnicity, and ethnic based discrimination is just as bad as racism.

Even if enthnic discrimination is just as bad, it is still not racism. Call it ethnic discrimination then, if you can prove it. You admit to using misleading language.

And the Mississippi plan can be easily distinguished. It affected everyone of a race inside those territories.

People who are not ethnic Russians training in Russia are affected. And ethnic Russians not training in Russia are not affected.

So it does not apply to a whole ethnicity. Nor even just an ethnicity inside Russia. Now if the said non ethinic Russians training in Russia are exempt, you might have a point. But they did not.

The Russian Federation is a state. Not the Russian ethnicity.

Where Russian sanctions on Ukraine racist? No. Ukrainian is not a race. And applying sanctions to a whole state is not the same thing as targeting an ethnicity either.

[San Marlindo]

Interesting.
Out of curiosity, has this ever occured before? Not Russia specifically, but a country being barred from one, several, or all events.

South Africa was banned from 1964 onwards. They remained banned until apartheid was abolished the 1990s, even though they'd offered to field nonwhite athletes in the '80s to demonstrate their commitment to multi-racialism...at least in principle.

I don't disagree with the decision, but I also believe countries which committed far worse human rights atrocities on their own people should also be banned likewise, i.e. North Korea. Certainly they deserved it.

[AiliailiA]

They don't have to train outside of Russia, they have to get tested outside of Russia.

If that was the case, let's fly all clean Russian athletes to wherever you want, to get tested. And they cannot compete for Russia, fine, let them compete independently. Except that's not happening either.

You've repeatedly said "clean" athletes. You mean athletes that clear tests now and from now on, right? Presumably tests administered by some non-Russian authority and not in Russia.

Thing is, all athletes have to pass tests long before the games, when they're in training. The actions of the Russian sports authorities have made it impossible to know if an athlete who is clean NOW always was.

[The Two Jerseys]

They deserve to be banned. You break the rules, you get punished, plain and simple.

[Shofercia]

Wow, when I was studying how the Mississippi Plan worked, I remember similar arguments. After all, it applies to everyone, and African Americans in the North can vote, so clearly, not racism, right? Your apologia is utterly pathetic.

Moreover ethnic Russians outsides Russia are not affected.

And yet, amazingly enough, most ethnic Russians live in Russia, and are affected. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Plan clearly applied to the South, so surely it wasn't racist, since blacks in the North weren't affected by it. That's essentially what you're arguing with that line.

And it does not ban people born in Russia! People born in Russia no longer living or training there are not affected either.

See above. The Mississippi Plan had nothing to do with people born in the South, and living in the North. So clearly, according to Novus America, it wasn't racist.

Targeting a state is not necessarily racism.

Right, but I'm NOT talking about targeting a state. I'm talking about targeting Human Beings. Ethnic Russian Athletes who train in Russia and never doped, cannot even compete under an independent IOC banner. That's the crux of the issue. They banned Mutko, no one gave a shit. Not even sure why athletes would want to claim that second-best is worthy of a Gold Medal, but that'll now be the case, thanks to the morons at WADA.

And of course you add legalese junk, such as claiming that Russian is not a race, so it cannot be racism, even though Russian is an ethnicity, and ethnic based discrimination is just as bad as racism.

Even if enthnic discrimination is just as bad, it is still not racism. Call it ethnic discrimination then, if you can prove it. You admit to using misleading language.

And the Mississippi plan can be easily distinguished. It affected everyone of a race inside those territories.

People who are not ethnic Russians training in Russia are affected. And ethnic Russians not training in Russia are not affected.

So it does not apply to a whole ethnicity. Nor even just an ethnicity inside Russia. Now if the said non ethinic Russians training in Russia are exempt, you might have a point. But they did not.

The Russian Federation is a state. Not the Russian ethnicity.

Where Russian sanctions on Ukraine racist? No. Ukrainian is not a race. And applying sanctions to a whole state is not the same thing as targeting an ethnicity either.

It's equally bad, and racism is more of a buzzword. You don't like it, you're welcome to Crimea River.


People who are not ethnic Russians training in Russia are affected.

Name at least eight. That would represent all 2% of Russia's national team. Oh, and in the South, erm, people of mixed race were affected, not that I'd expected you to know something like Plessy v Ferguson.


ethnic Russians not training in Russia are not affected

And blacks living outside of the South were not affected. We've been over this before, all of one post ago, did you forget?


So it does not apply to a whole ethnicity.

It doesn't have to. If x chooses to only beat up blacks in California, that's still a racist hate crime.


Nor even just an ethnicity inside Russia.

Nor did Plessy v Ferguson. Because honestly, if we're going by just 1/8th, why not 1/16th or 1/32nd?


Now if the said non ethinic Russians training in Russia are exempt, you might have a point. But they did not.

Oh, so if x beats up 400 blacks in California, and then beats up 4 white guys, and says "I love beating up people from Africa," that wouldn't be labeled as a hate crime?


The Russian Federation is a state. Not the Russian ethnicity.

The sanctions are against athletes. If all athletes were allowed to compete under the IOC banner, but no athletes were allowed to compete under Russia's banner, then you'd have a point. You don't.


Where Russian sanctions on Ukraine racist?

If Russia denied entry to those who lived and worked in Ukraine for the past 10 years, solely on those grounds, then yeah, I'd say that's fucked up.


No. Ukrainian is not a race. And applying sanctions to a whole state is not the same thing as targeting an ethnicity either.

Yo, already been discussed: The sanctions are against athletes. If all athletes were allowed to compete under the IOC banner, but no athletes were allowed to compete under Russia's banner, then you'd have a point. You don't.

[Shofercia]

If that was the case, let's fly all clean Russian athletes to wherever you want, to get tested. And they cannot compete for Russia, fine, let them compete independently. Except that's not happening either.

You've repeatedly said "clean" athletes. You mean athletes that clear tests now and from now on, right? Presumably tests administered by some non-Russian authority and not in Russia.

Thing is, all athletes have to pass tests long before the games, when they're in training. The actions of the Russian sports authorities have made it impossible to know if an athlete who is clean NOW always was.

I mean athletes that never doped. That don't have a history of doping. And if you don't dope, it really doesn't matter where you're tested. Russian athletes have been tested at numerous events where they competed. The Olympics isn't the only competition. So it's possible to see a pattern of whether an athlete doped or not. Whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty?

They deserve to be banned. You break the rules, you get punished, plain and simple.

Except athletes who broke no rules are also being punished.

[Gristol-Serkonos]

Or Y'know... the Russians could just... Git Gud.

And stop bloody cheating the system.

[Magical Girl Devil]

How is this "racism"? I don't get it. So if athletes from a certain nation are barred from participating in an international competition because the nation's government engaged in massive cheating, that is racism?

Except athletes who broke no rules are also being punished.

That's how sanction works, I believe.

[Novus America]

Even if enthnic discrimination is just as bad, it is still not racism. Call it ethnic discrimination then, if you can prove it. You admit to using misleading language.

And the Mississippi plan can be easily distinguished. It affected everyone of a race inside those territories.

People who are not ethnic Russians training in Russia are affected. And ethnic Russians not training in Russia are not affected.

So it does not apply to a whole ethnicity. Nor even just an ethnicity inside Russia. Now if the said non ethinic Russians training in Russia are exempt, you might have a point. But they did not.

The Russian Federation is a state. Not the Russian ethnicity.

Where Russian sanctions on Ukraine racist? No. Ukrainian is not a race. And applying sanctions to a whole state is not the same thing as targeting an ethnicity either.

It's equally bad, and racism is more of a buzzword. You don't like it, you're welcome to Crimea River.


People who are not ethnic Russians training in Russia are affected.

Name at least eight. That would represent all 2% of Russia's national team. Oh, and in the South, erm, people of mixed race were affected, not that I'd expected you to know something like Plessy v Ferguson.


ethnic Russians not training in Russia are not affected

And blacks living outside of the South were not affected. We've been over this before, all of one post ago, did you forget?


So it does not apply to a whole ethnicity.

It doesn't have to. If x chooses to only beat up blacks in California, that's still a racist hate crime.


Nor even just an ethnicity inside Russia.

Nor did Plessy v Ferguson. Because honestly, if we're going by just 1/8th, why not 1/16th or 1/32nd?


Now if the said non ethinic Russians training in Russia are exempt, you might have a point. But they did not.

Oh, so if x beats up 400 blacks in California, and then beats up 4 white guys, and says "I love beating up people from Africa," that wouldn't be labeled as a hate crime?


The Russian Federation is a state. Not the Russian ethnicity.

The sanctions are against athletes. If all athletes were allowed to compete under the IOC banner, but no athletes were allowed to compete under Russia's banner, then you'd have a point. You don't.


Where Russian sanctions on Ukraine racist?

If Russia denied entry to those who lived and worked in Ukraine for the past 10 years, solely on those grounds, then yeah, I'd say that's fucked up.


No. Ukrainian is not a race. And applying sanctions to a whole state is not the same thing as targeting an ethnicity either.

Yo, already been discussed: The sanctions are against athletes. If all athletes were allowed to compete under the IOC banner, but no athletes were allowed to compete under Russia's banner, then you'd have a point. You don't.

Hah, so at least you admit the racism thing is BS. Yes I know racism like fascism is usually just an empty buzzword.

And I know Plessy v. Ferguson of course. Obviously you do not understand the one drop rule though. But this has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

A state oppressing a certain race within its borders is completely different than sanctions against a countries sports team and its members.

This does not apply to all Russians either, just people, regardless of ethnicity that trained using a corrupt training system. The sanctions are on the training system. And people in the training system.

But you are back to your circular logic again, WADA is ebul and hates Russia.
And I will not get past your sense of victimhood.

So I leave you with this. You do not like the WADA sanctions?

Crimea river.

[The Two Jerseys]

They deserve to be banned. You break the rules, you get punished, plain and simple.

Except athletes who broke no rules are also being punished.

Crimea river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCNY_point_shaving_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_basketball_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Minnesota_basketball_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_at_Chapel_Hill_football_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_State_child_sex_abuse_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_University_athletics_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Southern_California_athletics_scandal

Innocent athletes get punished all the time when the program itself is rotten to the core.

[Novus America]

Except athletes who broke no rules are also being punished.

Crimea river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCNY_point_shaving_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_basketball_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Minnesota_basketball_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_at_Chapel_Hill_football_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_State_child_sex_abuse_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_University_athletics_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Southern_California_athletics_scandal

Innocent athletes get punished all the time when the program itself is rotten to the core.

And I might also add it is not racist just because most or all members of the team belong to a certain ethnicity or nationality.

[The Qeiiam Star Cluster]

Russian-speaking militias have risen up in Brazil and seized the Olympic stadia!

[Baltenstein]

Russian-speaking militias have risen up in Brazil and seized the Olympic stadia!

Obviously those are locals who bought their gear at the cornerstore.

[Old Tyrannia]

They deserve to be banned. You break the rules, you get punished, plain and simple.

But, you see, it's Russia being punished for breaking the rules, which means it's obviously an evil western plot and Russia has done nothing wrong. At. All.

[SaintB]

Apparently the Russians never had these on their Arcade Machines.

[Hurdergaryp]

Interesting.
Out of curiosity, has this ever occured before? Not Russia specifically, but a country being barred from one, several, or all events.

Countries have been banned from the Olympics before for various reasons, but as far as I remember this is the first incidence of drugs cheats being the cause of the ban for a whole nation.

Russia Today probably has transformed this whole thing in yet another attempt of the decadent West to punish the mighty Russian Federation and its immaculate leadership for its virility, moral superiority and guaranteed victory at all future fronts.

[Footballand]

As outsider, i can say that really if some athletes be guilty, you can't ban one entire nation to compete, also the innocent athletes.

In fact, if you see the % of guilty athletes by olympics commites have more % of guilty athletes than Russia:

Russian athletes generated 148 anti-doping rule violations and i.e Italy have 123, Belgium & France 91, Australia 49...but when you see the number of total test per country, the % of no-doping athletes is bigger in Russia than in Italy, Belgium or France, so...if you go to ban a entire nation, also Italy, Belgium and France need to be banned...but politics rules...also, why USA is outside the WADA? Marion Jones is a example, or Florence Griffith Joyner...USA use his own rules to his own athletes (USADA: "Despite its name and status as the country's official anti doping organization, USADA is a private organization and not subject to government oversight") ..."Any world athlete have to spend some controls and submit to the jurisprudence of the corresponding sport federation, the Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) International Agency or the International Olympic Committee (IOC), accepting its dictates and potential penalties in case of finding a positive and, Instead, Americans are permitted to regulate their doping cases, assuming that such a case would end, internally."...""The code of conduct used in USA allows any American player to choose between international agencies (WADA, IOC, etc, etc) or their own (USADA) to join an antidoping legislation being selected unanimously the "home" option".


Also nobody say nothing about another thing, the laboratories:

"The National Anti-Doping Organizations (NADOs) of Andorra and Israel were deemed not to have 2015 Code compliant rules in place. Argentina, Bolivia, Ukraine were also declared non-compliant as a result of using non-accredited laboratories, an action prohibited under global anti-doping rules as it relates to analyze blood and urine samples."

[Hurdergaryp]

Apparently the Russians never had these on their Arcade Machines.

Back then, it was Tetris all the way for the Russian people.

[AiliailiA]

You've repeatedly said "clean" athletes. You mean athletes that clear tests now and from now on, right? Presumably tests administered by some non-Russian authority and not in Russia.

Thing is, all athletes have to pass tests long before the games, when they're in training. The actions of the Russian sports authorities have made it impossible to know if an athlete who is clean NOW always was.

I mean athletes that never doped. That don't have a history of doping. And if you don't dope, it really doesn't matter where you're tested. Russian athletes have been tested at numerous events where they competed. The Olympics isn't the only competition. So it's possible to see a pattern of whether an athlete doped or not. Whatever happened to innocent before proven guilty?

You're missing the point. All other athletes have to pass tests in training. It's too late to apply those tests to Russian athletes now. So while it is unfair to Russian athletes who have never doped, it's the lesser of evils. Giving them all a pass would let through some who did dope in training and that's worse because it's unfair to all other athletes who (a)didn't dope and (b)took fair tests to prove it.

It really DOES matter when you're tested. If all that mattered was whether athletes had detectable drugs in their blood at the event, testing would be a whole lot simpler and no national federations would need to be involved at all.

[AiliailiA]

Also nobody say nothing about another thing, the laboratories:

"The National Anti-Doping Organizations (NADOs) of Andorra and Israel were deemed not to have 2015 Code compliant rules in place. Argentina, Bolivia, Ukraine were also declared non-compliant as a result of using non-accredited laboratories, an action prohibited under global anti-doping rules as it relates to analyze blood and urine samples."

This seems to be a quote from WADA, or some other source quoting WADA.

Which is fine, but a style point: you should give a link to sources you quote, or at least name the source.

Non-accredited labs leave open the possibility of the national doping agency to participate in cheating. There should be sanctions for that, but it's clearly less serious than being caught actually cheating.

[Major-Tom]

Apparently the Russians never had these on their Arcade Machines.

(Image)

Heavens no, they had needles where that poster should've been.

[Shofercia]

It's equally bad, and racism is more of a buzzword. You don't like it, you're welcome to Crimea River.


People who are not ethnic Russians training in Russia are affected.

Name at least eight. That would represent all 2% of Russia's national team. Oh, and in the South, erm, people of mixed race were affected, not that I'd expected you to know something like Plessy v Ferguson.


ethnic Russians not training in Russia are not affected

And blacks living outside of the South were not affected. We've been over this before, all of one post ago, did you forget?


So it does not apply to a whole ethnicity.

It doesn't have to. If x chooses to only beat up blacks in California, that's still a racist hate crime.


Nor even just an ethnicity inside Russia.

Nor did Plessy v Ferguson. Because honestly, if we're going by just 1/8th, why not 1/16th or 1/32nd?


Now if the said non ethinic Russians training in Russia are exempt, you might have a point. But they did not.

Oh, so if x beats up 400 blacks in California, and then beats up 4 white guys, and says "I love beating up people from Africa," that wouldn't be labeled as a hate crime?


The Russian Federation is a state. Not the Russian ethnicity.

The sanctions are against athletes. If all athletes were allowed to compete under the IOC banner, but no athletes were allowed to compete under Russia's banner, then you'd have a point. You don't.


Where Russian sanctions on Ukraine racist?

If Russia denied entry to those who lived and worked in Ukraine for the past 10 years, solely on those grounds, then yeah, I'd say that's fucked up.


No. Ukrainian is not a race. And applying sanctions to a whole state is not the same thing as targeting an ethnicity either.

Yo, already been discussed: The sanctions are against athletes. If all athletes were allowed to compete under the IOC banner, but no athletes were allowed to compete under Russia's banner, then you'd have a point. You don't.

Hah, so at least you admit the racism thing is BS. Yes I know racism like fascism is usually just an empty buzzword.

And I know Plessy v. Ferguson of course. Obviously you do not understand the one drop rule though. But this has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

A state oppressing a certain race within its borders is completely different than sanctions against a countries sports team and its members.

This does not apply to all Russians either, just people, regardless of ethnicity that trained using a corrupt training system. The sanctions are on the training system. And people in the training system.

But you are back to your circular logic again, WADA is ebul and hates Russia.
And I will not get past your sense of victimhood.

So I leave you with this. You do not like the WADA sanctions?

Crimea river.

The point is that athletes should be able to compete in sports that they're the best at, if they did nothing wrong. For some odd reason, you, Novus America, are completely failing to grasp this point. You keep on repeating arguments that have already been destroyed, ad nauseum, while accusing others of circular logic. I'm not going to bother with your petty and, quite frankly, idiotic personal attacks, such as you babbling something about a sense of victimhood, and once again address the idiocy of the argument that was debunked.

This does not apply to all Russians either, just people, regardless of ethnicity that trained using a corrupt training system. The sanctions are on the training system. And people in the training system.

The extreme majority of Russian athletes train in Russia. The extreme majority of non-Russian athletes do not. If I was to pass a law against sleeping on park benches, that law would be targeting homeless, even though it's written to target everyone, because, for some odd reason, there just aren't that many homeowners sleeping on park benches. The very fact that you fail to grasp this simple point, makes me wonder whether any of your points have any merit.

A state oppressing a certain race within its borders is completely different than sanctions against a countries sports team and its members.

Oh, so if the US was to ban all people whose ancestors were slaves from competing, and the IOC banned all African countries from competing, the actually effect wouldn't be to ban blacks in sports? Not according to Novus America, since, hey, some blacks could still compete in either case.

[Shofercia]

Except athletes who broke no rules are also being punished.

Crimea river.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCNY_point_shaving_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_basketball_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Minnesota_basketball_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_North_Carolina_at_Chapel_Hill_football_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_State_child_sex_abuse_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University_football_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_University_athletics_scandal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Southern_California_athletics_scandal

Innocent athletes get punished all the time when the program itself is rotten to the core.

Ahhh yes, if some people get to be utter morons, (WADA) others can be utter morons too (NCAA's committee that made the USC ruling) brilliant logic Two Jerseys, absolutely brilliant! I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I am saying it's discriminatory or idiotic, and in some cases, both. For instance, part of the punishment included: docked 30 scholarships over three years

Da fuck? Money-wise that's pennies for USC, perhaps even half pennies. But for those kids that could've used those scholarships, it wrecked their dreams. What was the point of that ruling that you're hailing? From the USC article, you know, the one that you cited:

During a flight delay last year, I was cornered at an airport by an administrator from a major program outside the Pac-12. He made fun of me as a "USC fanboy" because of my rants against the NCAA ruling against the Trojans. But we started talking. Turned out he agreed with just about all my points. (He just didn't like USC.)

He told me, after some small talk and off-the-record, that "everybody" thought USC got screwed. He said that he thought the NCAA was trying to scare everyone with the ruling, but subsequent major violations cases put it in a pickle.

Then he told me that USC was punished for its "USC-ness," that while many teams had closed down access — to media, to fans, etc. — USC under Pete Carroll was completely open, and that was widely resented. There was a widespread belief the national media fawned on USC because of this. Further, more than a few schools thought that the presence of big-time celebrities, such as Snoop Dogg and Will Ferrell, at practices and at games constituted an unfair recruiting advantage for the Trojans.

It wasn't against the rules, but everyone hated it. This, as he assessed his own smell test, was a subtext of the so-called atmosphere of noncompliance that the NCAA referred to — an atmosphere that oddly yielded very few instances of noncompliance around the football program even after a four-year NCAA investigation.

So, Two Jerseys, are you saying that two wrongs make a right?