UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Olivaero]

I might find that I become the first person ever to actually fail my master's course, by having only "completed" something in the region of 50 of the 180 credits.

Or I haven't and the people in the postgrad office have spent 4+ weeks not bothering to actually let me know how that's going.

Fuck :/ that can't be great. Hope things go well.

[The Nihilistic view]

What you have there is asking people to talk about stuff, rather than asking them what is most important to them out of a range of options and to rank them. Thus it's not as valid when talking about the most important reason to people. Immigration was not the most important.

"Immigration" was followed at some distance by "borders" and "border", and also "security".
"Control" was way behind "immigration".

If you force people to vote for one specific thing of three, you are begging the question, for the sake of a more conclusive ranking. People's choice of options will be swayed.

if you voted to leave the EU because of immigration, and believed it was because of EU laws and rules that we couldn't change, then you would probably select "that decisions should be taken in the UK", as that would have solved your perceived immigration problem.

There were more than 3 options for ranking.

If you voted to leave because of immigration then you voted leave because of immigration. It's not a difficult question. The level of intelligence you credit people is probably part of the problem with why remain lost in the end and why it has been coming for a while. Basically thinking a majority of people look at a question and can't tell the difference between the two.

[Souseiseki]

For the record my original answer was going to be "because I'm me", so I don't know why I actually chose to post that.

because of the esprit de thread that has slowly but surely developed

[Ostroeuropa]

For the record my original answer was going to be "because I'm me", so I don't know why I actually chose to post that.

I don't really know what to say. So i'm just going to offer you some comforting fiction.
But here you go;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujksjzq ... hCymOq-wJX

Helps me out sometimes. Keeps me grounded through absurdism and such. The calming tones over all the terrible shit happening makes it feel like I can handle anything. Maybe it'll work out for you.

-
Things don't always go as planned. Sometimes this fucks up all our plans. But that's all it is. You might feel like your life is ruined, but it isn't, just your plan for your life, that's all. You can make new plans. Trite perhaps, but you know.

Uh. Hang in there.
(Socialawkwardness intensifies.)

[Mad hatters in jeans]

I wonder how many people thought leaving the EU was at all related to Muslims.

Given that Google searches originating from British IP addresses for "what is the EU" spiked on June 24 I think we can logically assume a good chunk had no idea what they were voting for.

Yeah but to be fair there haven't been many referendums here, so folks voted as if it were an election campaign and so you get a number voting in protest against the EU without realising how damaging doing so would be to their local area.

keeping in mind one of the big arguments over control was control over... immigration

And that lie about the NHS likely swung a good number of them over.

Throw in a few tabloids screaming about immigrants ruining everything including christmas for years on end and you have a misinformed public who don't really understand what is going on.

You can tell it was misinformation that tipped the scales because the younger voters didn't fall for the bullshit nearly as much. Being more reliant on the internet for their opinions than newspapers.

I might find that I become the first person ever to actually fail my master's course, by having only "completed" something in the region of 50 of the 180 credits.

Or I haven't and the people in the postgrad office have spent 4+ weeks not bothering to actually let me know how that's going.

Ugh that's a horrible feeling.

[Napkiraly]

I might find that I become the first person ever to actually fail my master's course, by having only "completed" something in the region of 50 of the 180 credits.

Or I haven't and the people in the postgrad office have spent 4+ weeks not bothering to actually let me know how that's going.

That's disheartening to hear.

If you passed all of the courses that you took, I don't see how this can be.

[Imperializt Russia]

I might find that I become the first person ever to actually fail my master's course, by having only "completed" something in the region of 50 of the 180 credits.

Or I haven't and the people in the postgrad office have spent 4+ weeks not bothering to actually let me know how that's going.

That's disheartening to hear.

If you passed all of the courses that you took, I don't see how this can be.

I basically stopped submitting or doing work in February because I couldn't face the world, and because living at home was cripplingly depressing in itself.

[Olivaero]

That's disheartening to hear.

If you passed all of the courses that you took, I don't see how this can be.

I basically stopped submitting or doing work in February because I couldn't face the world, and because living at home was cripplingly depressing in itself.

The first part is exactly why I left uni. Is there any chance of resitting any module you failed?

[Imperializt Russia]

I basically stopped submitting or doing work in February because I couldn't face the world, and because living at home was cripplingly depressing in itself.

The first part is exactly why I left uni. Is there any chance of resitting any module you failed?

I just typed out an "executive summary of my last 18 months" but reading through it, I am not posting it.

Potentially, yes. Two months ago, I submitted mitigating circumstances to the head of the course at Liverpool and the course liaison. The head of course and one other jolly chap apparently are the committee that meets to discuss mitigating circumstances, and I've heard literally nothing back.

So either it's not gone through, and no-one's told me, and I don't want to have to face that because my life will be over, or it has gone through, and no-one's told me, and I've been petrified in fear for the last four weeks or more for nothing.

[Salandriagado]

In Papua New Guinea there are societies where cannibalism is acceptable and euthanasia is widely practiced. Now, we do not have a duty to civilise them, which is what I'm sure some people on this thread would love, but would you want to live in a society where cannibalism is considered acceptable and where involuntary euthanasia of the disabled occurs on a regular basis? No? Then you think that those moral values are inferior as a code to the ones we've developed regarding the human body.

Would you go from here, to saying that ranking countries in immigration desirability is an acceptable policy?

No. Generalising on that level is unacceptable. Ranking individuals, maybe.

Kindly quote me when replying to me so people can see what you're failing to address properly.

Your argument is irrelevant, as it is based on a dislike for this country. That's it; you don't feel proud about what this country & its people have done, therefore your opinions are based on nothing but hypothetical.

I have no dislike for this country. As I say: it's doing pretty well, relatively speaking. Not the best, but pretty well.

You have no wish to help the people of this country, as you do not respect them.

I have, as I said, a wish to help all people. Respect has nothing to do with that. Nor does it have anything to do with pride. There are maybe ten or twenty people in the world I strongly respect, and I'm entirely confident that the number of people that you actually respect with more than lip service is lower than that.

Shame on you.

What, precisely, do you think is shameful about acting rationally in pursuit of the benefit of all humans (and other entities filling the criteria mentioned in the post you failed to quote)?

I'm entirely confident that I receive less benefit from the country, and contribute more to it, than you do. This is a transaction that I'm quite comfortable with, but not any reason for pride.

I doubt very much that I take more from the state than you do. Hell, I don't even use the NHS!

Your father is a stock trader. That is: his entire livelihood is entirely dependent on the existence of a well managed currency to trade in, and a well regulated market to trade on.

In terms of contribution- currently, no, I doubt I do contribute more than you, because I am 16. My parents on the other hand, I am sure, contribute far more financially, and take far less out. But this isn't a competition; the fact that you feel the need to say to me that you contribute more is sad.

Your parents probably take more out every year than I have in my entire life, through the advantages listed above and others. Financial contributions are, frankly, irrelevant, for two reasons: firstly, they aren't voluntary, and secondly, they are outright far less important than contributing something of actual value. So there's my question: how many people do you directly and significantly help? Not your parents, you, by your own personal actions, directly and materially, for no benefit to yourself, and without any kind of force compelling you to do so? Because many people, myself included, had long since lost count at your age. Once you get to the actual answer of "zero or something very close to it", think about why. Because there is absolutely no reason you couldn't do so. There is, frankly, absolutely no reason that you couldn't have been doing so for years. This kind of contribution: contributions that actually materially make the world a better place, on however small a scale, are the only contributions that have any real value. Your mother contributes plenty in this regard, you and your father not so much.

Kindly quote me when replying to me so people can see what you're failing to address properly.

Your argument is irrelevant, as it is based on a dislike for this country. That's it; you don't feel proud about what this country & its people have done, therefore your opinions are based on nothing but hypothetical.

I have no dislike for this country. As I say: it's doing pretty well, relatively speaking. Not the best, but pretty well.

You have no wish to help the people of this country, as you do not respect them.

I have, as I said, a wish to help all people. Respect has nothing to do with that. Nor does it have anything to do with pride. There are maybe twenty or thirty people in the world I strongly respect, and I'm entirely confident that the number of people that you actually respect with more than lip service is lower than that.

Shame on you.

What, precisely, do you think is shameful about acting rationally in pursuit of the benefit of all humans (and other entities filling the criteria mentioned in the post you failed to quote)?

I'm entirely confident that I receive less benefit from the country, and contribute more to it, than you do. This is a transaction that I'm quite comfortable with, but not any reason for pride.

I doubt very much that I take more from the state than you do. Hell, I don't even use the NHS!

Your father is a stock trader. That is: his entire livelihood is entirely dependent on the existence of a well managed currency to trade in, and a well regulated market to trade on.

In terms of contribution- currently, no, I doubt I do contribute more than you, because I am 16. My parents on the other hand, I am sure, contribute far more financially, and take far less out. But this isn't a competition; the fact that you feel the need to say to me that you contribute more is sad.

Your parents probably take more out every year than I have in my entire life, through the advantages listed above and others. Financial contributions are, frankly, irrelevant, for two reasons: firstly, they aren't voluntary, and secondly, they are outright far less important than contributing something of actual value. So there's my question: how many people do you, on a regular basis, directly help? Not your parents, you, by your own personal actions, directly and materially, for no benefit to yourself, and on a purely voluntary basis? Because contributions like that, which actually materially benefit the world, on however small a level, are the only things that actually really matter in this regard, and many people, including all of those people I said I respect, had long since lost count by the time they were your age. And there is no reason whatsoever that you can't do it: it's entirely and completely your fault that you haven't contributed anything. If you actually care about anybody apart from yourself, if you actually want to make the world a better place, stop sitting here arguing on the internet and go out and do something about it.

[Napkiraly]

The first part is exactly why I left uni. Is there any chance of resitting any module you failed?

I just typed out an "executive summary of my last 18 months" but reading through it, I am not posting it.

Potentially, yes. Two months ago, I submitted mitigating circumstances to the head of the course at Liverpool and the course liaison. The head of course and one other jolly chap apparently are the committee that meets to discuss mitigating circumstances, and I've heard literally nothing back.

So either it's not gone through, and no-one's told me, and I don't want to have to face that because my life will be over, or it has gone through, and no-one's told me, and I've been petrified in fear for the last four weeks or more for nothing.

I would suggest getting in contact with them as soon as possible. I hope they will be accommodating. I had to go through a similar process in what was supposed to be my final year.

[Olivaero]

The first part is exactly why I left uni. Is there any chance of resitting any module you failed?

I just typed out an "executive summary of my last 18 months" but reading through it, I am not posting it.

Potentially, yes. Two months ago, I submitted mitigating circumstances to the head of the course at Liverpool and the course liaison. The head of course and one other jolly chap apparently are the committee that meets to discuss mitigating circumstances, and I've heard literally nothing back.

So either it's not gone through, and no-one's told me, and I don't want to have to face that because my life will be over, or it has gone through, and no-one's told me, and I've been petrified in fear for the last four weeks or more for nothing.

Maybe send an email enquiring about the state of your application for mitigating circumstances? or if you need to know right a way ring up tomorrow? If I know anything about university lecturers they've probably all had various holidays over the summer that has made arranging a meeting hard so it might of been a decision made relatively recently and they just haven't gotten around to it yet. Regardless, you'll still have your degree right? I know it's probably not what you need to go where you want to go but there are always options especially if it's a 2:1 or above.

[Souseiseki]

The first part is exactly why I left uni. Is there any chance of resitting any module you failed?

I just typed out an "executive summary of my last 18 months" but reading through it, I am not posting it.

Potentially, yes. Two months ago, I submitted mitigating circumstances to the head of the course at Liverpool and the course liaison. The head of course and one other jolly chap apparently are the committee that meets to discuss mitigating circumstances, and I've heard literally nothing back.

So either it's not gone through, and no-one's told me, and I don't want to have to face that because my life will be over, or it has gone through, and no-one's told me, and I've been petrified in fear for the last four weeks or more for nothing.

i'd tell you to contact them already but then i'd be a bit of a hypocrite

[Ostroeuropa]

Would you go from here, to saying that ranking countries in immigration desirability is an acceptable policy?

No. Generalising on that level is unacceptable. Ranking individuals, maybe.

Kindly quote me when replying to me so people can see what you're failing to address properly.

Here you go.

It's an issue of resources and practicality. Given unlimited funding, we could be far more strenuous. But, fact is, the British government owes its own citizens fair treatment before it owes foreigners fair treatment, and that should be reflected in funding and resource allocation.
So a broad, perhaps unfair, policy, is acceptable to me until home affairs are in better order and more funds could be directed to make immigration checks more individualized instead of generalized.

It generalizes. So what.
Foreigners are not entitled to not be generalized by the British Government if doing so will save resources. They are not entitled to equal treatment. They are not citizens. Citizens are the governments priority, and resources should be expended to reflect that.

It might suck for the Saudi that isn't a fundamentalist, but that isn't our problem, because they aren't a citizen.

[Olivaero]

I just typed out an "executive summary of my last 18 months" but reading through it, I am not posting it.

Potentially, yes. Two months ago, I submitted mitigating circumstances to the head of the course at Liverpool and the course liaison. The head of course and one other jolly chap apparently are the committee that meets to discuss mitigating circumstances, and I've heard literally nothing back.

So either it's not gone through, and no-one's told me, and I don't want to have to face that because my life will be over, or it has gone through, and no-one's told me, and I've been petrified in fear for the last four weeks or more for nothing.

i'd tell you to contact them already but then i'd be a bit of a hypocrite

Yeah I wouldn't of been capable of taking my own advice when I dropped out of uni I could barely leave my accomodation...

[Imperializt Russia]

I just typed out an "executive summary of my last 18 months" but reading through it, I am not posting it.

Potentially, yes. Two months ago, I submitted mitigating circumstances to the head of the course at Liverpool and the course liaison. The head of course and one other jolly chap apparently are the committee that meets to discuss mitigating circumstances, and I've heard literally nothing back.

So either it's not gone through, and no-one's told me, and I don't want to have to face that because my life will be over, or it has gone through, and no-one's told me, and I've been petrified in fear for the last four weeks or more for nothing.

Maybe send an email enquiring about the state of your application for mitigating circumstances? or if you need to know right a way ring up tomorrow? If I know anything about university lecturers they've probably all had various holidays over the summer that has made arranging a meeting hard so it might of been a decision made relatively recently and they just haven't gotten around to it yet. Regardless, you'll still have your degree right? I know it's probably not what you need to go where you want to go but there are always options especially if it's a 2:1 or above.

It's a 2:2 lol

[Olivaero]

Maybe send an email enquiring about the state of your application for mitigating circumstances? or if you need to know right a way ring up tomorrow? If I know anything about university lecturers they've probably all had various holidays over the summer that has made arranging a meeting hard so it might of been a decision made relatively recently and they just haven't gotten around to it yet. Regardless, you'll still have your degree right? I know it's probably not what you need to go where you want to go but there are always options especially if it's a 2:1 or above.

It's a 2:2 lol

still not the end of the world considering it's in the hard sciences right? there's no use pretending it's gonna be easy but there will be a way forward. But from what it sounds like to me, you need to spend some time focusing on getting better in yourself. Then again I'm just some guy on the internet but it is something I've experienced.

[Imperializt Russia]

In hindsight, I should have suspended my studies as soon as my invoice came through and I knew I wouldn't be able to afford it.

But I'd do the last six whole years differently "in hindsight", so what worth is that?

[Olivaero]

In hindsight, I should have suspended my studies as soon as my invoice came through and I knew I wouldn't be able to afford it.

But I'd do the last six whole years differently "in hindsight", so what worth is that?

Hindsight is 20/20 it's better to think about the future, as hollow as that sounds.

[Hydesland]

It's a 2:2 lol

Anecdote sure, but I have a friend with a Desmond who has a good job in finance right now. It's a fairly common grade, definitely not the end of the world.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's pretty much a death knell for working in the nuclear industry unless I try and go in at some sort of bottom grade.
I applied for an EDF job that made no mention of what grade it actually wanted and was super vague.

Saving grace was that I get to claim I have a 3.0 GPA because a French company operating in the UK uses US grades on its online application system.

[Napkiraly]

It's a 2:2 lol

Anecdote sure, but I have a friend with a Desmond who has a good job in finance right now. It's a fairly common grade, definitely not the end of the world.

Especially nowadays. IIRC there was a study that showed that those with a Desmond more or less matched their 2:1 counterparts, but just worked in less noticeable and big companies. So the SME's instead of huge firms.

Hell, even some of those are starting to drop the requirement. IIRC, EY doesn't require you to have a 2:1 anymore.

[The Nihilistic view]

Feel free not to answer this if it makes you feel uncomfortable for those it applies to.

The reason I am curious is two fold. First I suspended my studies at one point for depression and anxiety for about 2 years in the end before carrying on to finish. My experiance is unis are total shite at dealing with or even often noticing when people have problems affecting studies. So we're your institutions crap at dealing with it? The second point is if so what if anything could be a solution?

I found the system at my uni was basically set up for the student to come to the uni. Yet I know in my case and it seems painfully obvious from what IR has said that when suffering from this sort of thing that is one of the last things a student wants to do. IR you said you did not even want to check your email IIRC a little while ago, I know that feeling well in the year that things went tits up for me.

Generally the point is people that are clearly capable slipping through the net and thus not achieving what they can or in the time period that they should.

[Napkiraly]

My uni was pretty good for the most part. The downside is that they don't do long term therapy sessions. You get six and then you have to go somewhere else, which can be a bit :/. But on the whole, when my depression hit at its fullest force that it ever has, my uni was there when I needed it. They encouraged me to get help, they allowed me to suspend taking my final exams for a year along with my dissertation. As well, they made an effort to coordinate as much as possible with my GP and the psychiatric services of the NHS I was receiving. That said, I know of horror stories of experiences with unis about this stuff. So it is probably a mix of the particular institution you go to, the particular faculty, and dumb luck.

Also, I forgot to mention that when I came back they welcomed me back with open arms and made sure my transition back was smooth and remained quite helpful. One of my profs was quite happy to see me again.

[Imperializt Russia]

I had a significant factor in that I was studying from home. Not that it would have changed much, since the nature of my course means there's only eight weeks of actual taught courses, only one of which was provided by my university, and no two lecturers the same for any week. It's complicated.

So this means that administrators and teachers wouldn't have noticed in me - they didn't notice it when I was finishing my undergrad, after all, when I was only turning up to the labs and was taking a pull of a vodka bottle to have the energy to do so.
Not to mention, each of those eight weeks was fantastic. From January to May especially I was incredibly dejected, and I didn't have any modules from February to May, but two modules each in January and February. I would perk up for each week of lectures (because it was always interesting, and I had to travel, fully expensed, so it was a kind of mini-adventure), then settle back down into a sludge in my bed between them.

I only finally admitted to the administrators (not the ones at my uni - it's complicated) that I had been depressed for a long time (and this is only self-diagnosis of course), and this was why I was being useless at handing in work - on the morning of yet another deadline at the beginning of May. It had become too much by that point. I submitted a piece of complete garbage for that, something I threw together overnight, not sleeping, that failed to address anything substantial, because it was a big piece of analytical work that I had neither the time for, nor the understanding for as I'd forgotten how to do it since it had been set. Somehow that came back as 26. No idea how it scored that highly.
Never even fully read the email for that.
I didn't suggest or even consider raising I was depressed when finishing my undergrad, to try and contest my undergrad degree classification (which I would have loved to have been able to do) because I didn't realise that's what it probably was until after I finished. I thought I was just being pathetic. Then I had an argument with my mum over joining the army reserve, and I shut down for a month while still away. I left the house to unlock the gate for archery practice, because I had to, and didn't do anything else. Like eating. That was when I realised it was depression. It'd keep coming in cycles until May and basically I've just been at the point where I'm apathetic to everything since mid-July. I've not been at home since mid-July, so I suspect there's a correlation.

Over last summer I couldn't bear to do anything either - though I found some drinking buddies basically the first night back home, who I still have. I knew that I was getting worse, so I thought that I had to get on with my masters, and that I'd snap out of it, with something to do, that I really wanted to do, that I could look forward to.
And I was right.
Until I completed my first module and got slapped in the face with an invoice two grand more than I could afford.
Uni administration (at my uni, this time) either couldn't or wouldn't tell me how much my fees were. If I'd gotten a 2:1, my fees would have been waived and I'd have been considered for a £5000 stipend. On the 2:2 I got, I was liable to pay the full fees of £16,000 but I was issued a bursary of £10,000 - and as a continuing student, I was eligible for a 20% discount on my fees. Apparently, no-one had ever thought to calculate this set of circumstances.

My entirely reasonable belief was that I would be charged £16,000 which would have 20% taken off. I would be given a £10,000 bursary, which would make my overall fees payments a hair under £3000. I had £3000, and I figured I could do some work and save to go back to Liverpool for the latter half of the course.
Turns out, according to the bursary regulations no-one ever suggested I read despite asking fifty fucking times if they had any ideas what my fees were going to be, continuing students in receipt of the 20% discount and any other source of funding have the 20% applied to whatever is outstanding after bursaries. I found that out in January.
I assumed they'd just settled for the option that meant they lost less money on the course, by arranging it that way. I spoke to someone in finance who was apparently so inept they basically promised to look into it and that yep, I've done everything I need to, so when I was asking why my library card no longer worked on the morning of an exam in January, I was informed that nope, my fees definitely were five, not three, and nope, that woman I spoke to last time was chatting shit and should not have told me anything that she did.

So, eh.

Prospective uni students ITT - your administration will be garbage, it will be inefficient, and it won't work.
Don't listen to them.
Oh, and get everything in writing if you do make the mistake of listening to them.