How American Politics Went Insane

[The 93rd Coalition]

I believe the only phrase that adequately describes the situation is "Mistakes were made".

I can think of a better one:

"Prepare for unforeseen consequences"

Going still further:

"I assure you, it was worth the risk."

[Nerotysia]

He correctly identifies problems in American politics but applies the wrong solutions.

Restoring the status quo would solve these new problems, yes, but they are intensely imperfect solutions that would just bring back our old problems.

Instead, we could try new, better solutions, such as eliminating gerrymandering (thus eradicating one of the central problems of modern politics, which is the lack of compromise). It would not be too difficult either (technically) - allowing the parties themselves to shape electoral districts is just stupid. Of course they're going to draw safe districts and of course it's going to have exactly the effects we've seen. I don't know the best way to draw electoral districts, but I do know that our current system is only one step above the worst way.

Additionally, abolishing the two-party system. Plurality voting guarantees two-party dominance, and there are multiple better alternatives. One of the biggest reasons people vote for renegade candidates is because they feel alienated from the parties that are supposed to represent them. And of course they would feel that way with only two parties ever mattering. There's far, far more than just two sides to every issue. So, a new voting system which allows many parties, that would also be very good.

And also he wants greater private funding of political parties. Is he, like, an unabashed corporate cronyist? Like, he identifies that big spenders can simply bypass our laws, and instead of arguing to tighten those laws so that can't happen, he just says "Well, enable them to give money to the parties again!" Or, get this, we could just tighten our laws, prevent single donors from giving massive sums of money to anyone. Seriously, there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Nerotysia]

...(snip)...But a much easier marker: doesn't deadlift.

This post is aggressively vapid. And I was kinda surprised that it was you, Mermania. Don't you usually make better posts? I don't know, maybe I'm thinking of a different person.

(Unless it was satire or something?)

[Annorax]

Much like the Remain campaign from the U.K. and global progressivism as whole, establishment politicians in the U.S. (HRC included) preach stay the course and ignore the underlying anger that is only just beginning to boil over. When people are legitimately hurting and they are told to stay the course it is very cold comfort especially in the face of illegal immigration and trade deals that appear to squeeze them out. The message is clear, fix it or we burn the house down. One of the Leave campaign slogans I heard was "If you have money you want to Remain and if you don't you want to Leave." It really only affects people with money if this globalism fails just like when the Leave campaign won.

There are many part of America with crappy economies and news that the stock market or some ledger is in the black won't make people more hopeful. They are not impacted by it.There are real security concerns and resentment about immigration that the current administration just dismisses. The old narrative of blaming bigotry or racism on those that disagree with progressivism or globalism will not work any more.

As far as illegal immigration goes I'd like to see Obama, Cameron, Clinton, Merkel, and the like would go through the immigrant neighborhoods they claim to love so much without security just prove their money is where their mouth is.

[Ethel mermania]

...(snip)...But a much easier marker: doesn't deadlift.

This post is aggressively vapid. And I was kinda surprised that it was you, Mermania. Don't you usually make better posts? I don't know, maybe I'm thinking of a different person.

(Unless it was satire or something?)

I didn't write it. But I am good with the premise

because the people don't want what the elite want, politics has gone to hell. No its the party leadership on both sides that are the problem, not the people.

For example, the republican party leadership want s to cripple medicare, and social security. The folks in the party who work for a living, don't want too. The elite cry they don't listen to us. And the reason is simple, the top of the party does not represent the middle of the party. Even now the party is trying to tale the nomination away from trump by releasing delegates from their first votr pledge.

Same with the democrats. Hillary could ha e run for tammney hall she is so crooked and bought, Goldman sachs, owns both bill and hillary.. Sanders ran as an outsider and drew huge numbers of votes. The party worked actively against the wishes of the membership.

So politics left to the masters, as the Atlantic article suggests, is the problem with this country, not the solution.

[Expectareaction]

So politics left to the masters, as the Atlantic article suggests, is the problem with this country, not the solution.

Go ahead on.

[Ashmoria]

yeah i read that article yesterday. it has an excellent analysis of whats gone wrong.

but i think it has left out how the conservative industrial complex --rush Limbaugh, glenn beck, the NRA-- work to make sure that the republican base is always up in arms whenever congressional republicans work to get something actually passed.

I think it would be fair to say that the Koch Bros made a mess of America by starting the Tea Party.... and the Koch Bros is part of the Establishment

But I hope America doesn't end up the same fate as Europe and Brexit.

the kochs are more in the conservative industrial complex. they are at odds with the establishment in that they are trying to transform the republican party into the libertarian party. and were succeeding until it all went wobbly with the advent of candidate trump.

[Ashmoria]

yeah i read that article yesterday. it has an excellent analysis of whats gone wrong.

but i think it has left out how the conservative industrial complex --rush Limbaugh, glenn beck, the NRA-- work to make sure that the republican base is always up in arms whenever congressional republicans work to get something actually passed.

As opposed to the Democratic Base which is composed of calm rational open minded individuals easily able to tolerate ideas and values contrary to their who seek only free and expressive dialogue.

Its amazing, how blind people are to their own polarization.

well no. but the liberal industrial complex has very little power.

for instance when president Obama proposed his grand bargain that would have changed the COLA for social security, in effect lowering benefits in the future, it was/is anathema to liberals and the democratic party. but they were unable to create the firestorm that that would have resulted if a republican leader had proposed raising taxes, for example.

[Ashmoria]

I love how the Article seems to diminish those who don't subscribe to Party loyalty as if the Republican or Democratic parties have displayed consistent loyalty to the well being of the people of the nation and not merely the small base that keeps them in their career political jobs.
I mean seriously the Article seems to ignore the fact that the "establishment" has polarized the American people and left entirely unsatisfied.

The establishment is failed, much like bandos in the city, its time to burn it down so rebuilding can begin proper.

the establishment failed by fucking itself. they have put themselves into a corner they cant get out of and that makes them utterly unlikeable to their constituents. what seemed like a good idea turned out to be the pathway to extremism and polarization.

[Ashmoria]

What does that link have to do with anything I or Ash said?

The Democratic base are anything but rational
Is it rational to support a candidate who can beat Trump by a few points, while another can beat Trump over a lot points?

well yes it is.

as long as trump can be beaten it makes sense to go with the candidate that most represents the party as a whole.

[Ashmoria]

As to the Atlantic article


BWAHAHAHAHAHAH . I think this article describes the author

What's IYA?

Intellectual Yet Idiot: semi-erudite bureaucrat who thinks he is an erudite; pathologizes others for doing things he doesn't understand not realizing it is his understanding that may be limited; imparts normative ideas to others: thinks people should act according to their best interests *and* he knows their interests, particularly if they are uneducated "red necks" or English non-crisp-vowel class.

More socially: subscribes to the New Yorker; never curses on twitter; speaks of "equality of races" and "economic equality" but never went out drinking with a minority cab driver; has considered voting for Tony Blair; has attended more than 1 TEDx talks and watched more than 2 TED talks; will vote for Hillary Monsanto-Malmaison because she seems electable; has The Black Swan on his shelves but mistakes absence of evidence for evidence of absence; is member of a club to get traveling privileges; if social scientist uses statistics without knowing how they are derived; when in the UK goes to literary festivals; drinks red wine with steak (never white); used to believe that fat was harmful and has now completely reversed; takes statins because his doctor told him so; fails to understand ergodicity and when explained forgets about it soon later; doesn't use Yiddish words; studies grammar before speaking a language; has a cousin who worked with someone who knows the Queen; has never read Frederic Dard, Michael Oakeshot, John Gray, or Joseph De Maistre; has never gotten drunk with Russians and went breaking glasses; doesn't know the difference between Hecate and Hecuba; doesn't know that there is no difference between "pseudointellectual" and "intellectual"; has mentioned quantum mechanics at least twice in the past 5 years; knows at any point in time what his words or actions are doing to his reputation.

But a much easier marker: doesn't deadlift.

isn't that poisoning the well?

or is it just ad hominem?

[Conserative Morality]

...(snip)...But a much easier marker: doesn't deadlift.

This post is aggressively vapid. And I was kinda surprised that it was you, Mermania. Don't you usually make better posts? I don't know, maybe I'm thinking of a different person.

(Unless it was satire or something?)

You're thinking of a different person. Anti-intellectualism is one of EM's hallmarks.

[Lesser Mackonia]

As to the Atlantic article


BWAHAHAHAHAHAH . I think this article describes the author

What's IYA?

Intellectual Yet Idiot: semi-erudite bureaucrat who thinks he is an erudite; pathologizes others for doing things he doesn't understand not realizing it is his understanding that may be limited; imparts normative ideas to others: thinks people should act according to their best interests *and* he knows their interests, particularly if they are uneducated "red necks" or English non-crisp-vowel class.

More socially: subscribes to the New Yorker; never curses on twitter; speaks of "equality of races" and "economic equality" but never went out drinking with a minority cab driver; has considered voting for Tony Blair; has attended more than 1 TEDx talks and watched more than 2 TED talks; will vote for Hillary Monsanto-Malmaison because she seems electable; has The Black Swan on his shelves but mistakes absence of evidence for evidence of absence; is member of a club to get traveling privileges; if social scientist uses statistics without knowing how they are derived; when in the UK goes to literary festivals; drinks red wine with steak (never white); used to believe that fat was harmful and has now completely reversed; takes statins because his doctor told him so; fails to understand ergodicity and when explained forgets about it soon later; doesn't use Yiddish words; studies grammar before speaking a language; has a cousin who worked with someone who knows the Queen; has never read Frederic Dard, Michael Oakeshot, John Gray, or Joseph De Maistre; has never gotten drunk with Russians and went breaking glasses; doesn't know the difference between Hecate and Hecuba; doesn't know that there is no difference between "pseudointellectual" and "intellectual"; has mentioned quantum mechanics at least twice in the past 5 years; knows at any point in time what his words or actions are doing to his reputation.

But a much easier marker: doesn't deadlift.

This sums up so, so much of the Western media today on "teh ryse of da fahr hwrite!" Good post.

[Ethel mermania]

As to the Atlantic article


BWAHAHAHAHAHAH . I think this article describes the author

What's IYA?

Intellectual Yet Idiot: semi-erudite bureaucrat who thinks he is an erudite; pathologizes others for doing things he doesn't understand not realizing it is his understanding that may be limited; imparts normative ideas to others: thinks people should act according to their best interests *and* he knows their interests, particularly if they are uneducated "red necks" or English non-crisp-vowel class.

More socially: subscribes to the New Yorker; never curses on twitter; speaks of "equality of races" and "economic equality" but never went out drinking with a minority cab driver; has considered voting for Tony Blair; has attended more than 1 TEDx talks and watched more than 2 TED talks; will vote for Hillary Monsanto-Malmaison because she seems electable; has The Black Swan on his shelves but mistakes absence of evidence for evidence of absence; is member of a club to get traveling privileges; if social scientist uses statistics without knowing how they are derived; when in the UK goes to literary festivals; drinks red wine with steak (never white); used to believe that fat was harmful and has now completely reversed; takes statins because his doctor told him so; fails to understand ergodicity and when explained forgets about it soon later; doesn't use Yiddish words; studies grammar before speaking a language; has a cousin who worked with someone who knows the Queen; has never read Frederic Dard, Michael Oakeshot, John Gray, or Joseph De Maistre; has never gotten drunk with Russians and went breaking glasses; doesn't know the difference between Hecate and Hecuba; doesn't know that there is no difference between "pseudointellectual" and "intellectual"; has mentioned quantum mechanics at least twice in the past 5 years; knows at any point in time what his words or actions are doing to his reputation.

But a much easier marker: doesn't deadlift.

isn't that poisoning the well?

or is it just ad hominem?

no i dont think political leadership even pretends to consider the people anymore. paul ryan wants to dismantle social security and medicare, do you think the line worker at an american auto plant wants that?

do you believe that bill and hillary clinton think their repeal of glass- steagall is going to help poor inner city blacks.

look at the response to the Brexit, the people have spoken, and they want a redo. "oh no we cant do that, lets repeal it, have another vote", till we get the result we like.

[New Jerzylvania]

isn't that poisoning the well?

or is it just ad hominem?

no i dont think political leadership even pretends to consider the people anymore. paul ryan wants to dismantle social security and medicare, do you think the line worker at an american auto plant wants that?

do you believe that bill and hillary clinton think their repeal of glass- steagall is going to help poor inner city blacks.

look at the response to the Brexit, the people have spoken, and they want a redo. "oh no we cant do that, lets repeal it, have another vote", till we get the result we like.

Ya ever see that old episode of Star Trek where they come to a planet exactly like Earth where anyone that gets old enough to become an adult gets sick and dies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miri_(Sta ... nal_Series

We seem to be living on that planet now, except here you can become an adult, just not act like one. There are barely any real adults left (as I recall their behavior) from 40 or 50 years ago. Most were born between 1890 and 1920.
They (on the whole and comparatively) weren't selfish and were mostly happy with what little they had plus they looked out for you. This would be my grandparents generation. Yeah, unfortunately we aren't like them.

[Ethel mermania]

no i dont think political leadership even pretends to consider the people anymore. paul ryan wants to dismantle social security and medicare, do you think the line worker at an american auto plant wants that?

do you believe that bill and hillary clinton think their repeal of glass- steagall is going to help poor inner city blacks.

look at the response to the Brexit, the people have spoken, and they want a redo. "oh no we cant do that, lets repeal it, have another vote", till we get the result we like.

Ya ever see that old episode of Star Trek where they come to a planet exactly like Earth where anyone that gets old enough to become an adult gets sick and dies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miri_(Sta ... nal_Series

We seem to be living on that planet now, except here you can become an adult, just not act like one. There are barely any real adults left (as recall their behavior) from 40 or 50 years ago. Most were born between 1890 and 1920.
They (on the whole and comparatively) weren't selfish and were mostly happy with what little they had plus they looked out for you. This would be my grandparents generation. Yeah, unfortunately we aren't like them.

i.......

dont have a lot of argument here.

[New Jerzylvania]

Ya ever see that old episode of Star Trek where they come to a planet exactly like Earth where anyone that gets old enough to become an adult gets sick and dies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miri_(Sta ... nal_Series

We seem to be living on that planet now, except here you can become an adult, just not act like one. There are barely any real adults left (as recall their behavior) from 40 or 50 years ago. Most were born between 1890 and 1920.
They (on the whole and comparatively) weren't selfish and were mostly happy with what little they had plus they looked out for you. This would be my grandparents generation. Yeah, unfortunately we aren't like them.

i.......

dont have a lot of argument here.

So, now that is setttled, which Grateful Dead song do you think would be appropriate to put on right now?

[Ethel mermania]

i.......

dont have a lot of argument here.

So, now that is setttled, which Grateful Dead song do you think would be appropriate to play right now?

funny you say that. the new dead are playing at citifield tonite, and i am pissed i am not there

in terms of this conversation,

jack straw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUUqnjxwqk

[New Jerzylvania]

So, now that is setttled, which Grateful Dead song do you think would be appropriate to play right now?

funny you say that. the new dead are playing at citifield tonite, and i am pissed i am not there

in terms of this conversation,

jack straw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUUqnjxwqk

Here we go, from Europe "72. What a great album. A very nice choice.

[Ethel mermania]

funny you say that. the new dead are playing at citifield tonite, and i am pissed i am not there

in terms of this conversation,

jack straw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUUqnjxwqk

Here we go, from Europe "72. What a great album. A very nice choice.

heh, it fits quite well, i am curious if you had another tune in mind. i need to go to bed, another night in another thread i will ask what your first show was, goodnight.

[New Jerzylvania]

Here we go, from Europe "72. What a great album. A very nice choice.

heh, it fits quite well, i am curious if you had another tune in mind. i need to go to bed, another night in another thread i will ask what your first show was, goodnight.

After that I'll put on Ripple and then maybe Unbroken Chain (just to electrify).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVdTQ3OPtGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbBcniI1Ao

I'm sleepy too. Later Miss Ethel, Goodnight.

[Spiloebistan]

do you believe that bill and hillary clinton think their repeal of glass- steagall is going to help poor inner city blacks.

No because they already did it.

They can't think their repeal of glass-steagall is going to help poor inner city blacks because we've already seen the result of the repeal of glass-steagall.

[Ethel mermania]

do you believe that bill and hillary clinton think their repeal of glass- steagall is going to help poor inner city blacks.

No because they already did it.

They can't think their repeal of glass-steagall is going to help poor inner city blacks because we've already seen the result of the repeal of glass-steagall.

Which did not help poor people at all, ( should have been "was", my bad). And the inevitable consolidation of the industry killed thousands of entry level jobs in it, thst would have provided an upward path for people, and only benefited the top of the food chain.

[Ethel mermania]

heh, it fits quite well, i am curious if you had another tune in mind. i need to go to bed, another night in another thread i will ask what your first show was, goodnight.

After that I'll put on Ripple and then maybe Unbroken Chain (just to electrify).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVdTQ3OPtGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbBcniI1Ao

I'm sleepy too. Later Miss Ethel, Goodnight.

Mr mermania. It's long story.

[The Princes of the Universe]

No because they already did it.
They can't think their repeal of glass-steagall is going to help poor inner city blacks because we've already seen the result of the repeal of glass-steagall.

Which did not help poor people at all, ( should have been "was", my bad). And the inevitable consolidation of the industry killed thousands of entry level jobs in it, thst would have provided an upward path for people, and only benefited the top of the food chain.

Yet another reason I left the Democrats for leftward pastures.