UK Referendum Thread [Moderator Sanctioned]

[Baltenstein]

Is Spanish posession of Gibraltar actually a thing anybody is seriously considering? To me it looks even more comical an issue than Argentina claiming they will somehow get the Falklands.

[Souseiseki]

Is Spanish posession of Gibraltar actually a thing anybody is seriously considering? To me it looks even more comical an issue than Argentina claiming they will somehow get the Falklands.

dual sovereignty is the option on the table. spain is going to cripple them once we leave.

[Vassenor]

Is Spanish posession of Gibraltar actually a thing anybody is seriously considering? To me it looks even more comical an issue than Argentina claiming they will somehow get the Falklands.

They're conveniently ignoring the fact they signed the territory away "in perpetuity" for a kickoff.

[Glamour]

Yes. But the EU is basically telling the UK that its departure must be confirmed as soon as possible. Why do you think they want this?

They want to know if we are serious or if it is a gambit for staying with more concessions. They are not prepared to offer more concessions.

They want to know if who is serious?

Northern Ireland has a right to be serious about joining Ireland given the history of that. And Scotland is defined in its role in the United Kingdom as being one of the two Kingdoms that United, where its people have sovereignty over themselves, while the Queen (who ratifies everything Westminster does) has sovereignty over the Kingdom of England. In the event that the Scottish people cannot carry out their sovereign will or it is dominated by any means then the UK is no longer one thing that can be considered seriously. This is why nobody from Westminster has confirmed that they will attempt to block a second Scottish independence referendum - because they simply are not able to.

Therefore Scotland wishing to secede and remain in the EU as a sovereign (at that point separate) place would not be as implausible as many seem to think. And another thing is that when Thatcher went to war with Argentina, she did so not as someone who was effectively going to war against Europe. If Westminster decided to maintain Gibraltar by similar means that would be totally not worth it, especially considering Gibraltar is an economic centre and so is London and money actually plays more of a part in who goes to war where than politicians do. Also, the EU is clearly more of a central point of who backs who in war than England and Wales wanting Gibraltar is. Spain wants Gibraltar too and Spain is more important to Europe than England and Wales are now.

[Eirin]

I wonder if Gibraltar voting to remain by 95% or some thing will prompt them to voluntarily join Spain? What would they value more if pressed?

[Neu Leonstein]

So just on the markets:

GBP down another 3.5% or so - I quite like the 1-year chart... http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GBPUSD:CUR

But the really big mover in my book are Gilts (10-year British government bonds), with yields down another 15 basis points after dropping almost 30 basis points on Friday. That's huge and comes even despite the downgrade. Flight for safety and expectations of lower BoE rates for longer, I'd imagine.

FTSE down again - as before, the fall cushioned by a relatively large number of big companies with most of their revenue abroad (if you earn your money in USD but report your revenues in GBP a sharp depreciation of the pound will make you look good just for valuation reasons). Along the same vein, contrast the banks: mostly foreign HSBC and StanChart doing ok, Barclays and RBS hammered.

And a bunch of the big banks are revising down their growth forecasts and looking at a recession by the first half of 2017, despite expecting more BoE moves.

[Ostroeuropa]

Gibraltar, London, Northern Ireland, and Scotland join Ireland by referendum. Its the only solution that allows them to immediately join the EU, other than Parliament admitting they made a huge mistake and saying this is a bad idea.

If they then also secede from Ireland in a manner consistent with the Irish constitution (Except Northern Ireland) they'd still be in the EU apparently.

Though Spain might veto gibraltar anyway, because reasons.

[Great Nepal]

So just on the markets:

GBP down another 3.5% or so - I quite like the 1-year chart... http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GBPUSD:CUR

It certainly seems to have stabilised like leave campaigners had said; although its with respect to the y axis...

[Ostroeuropa]

Also:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/683 ... leave-vote

Ireland begs British people to stop trying to immigrate to their country, in a supreme act of irony.
We've basically DDOS'd their immigration office.

They've run out of paperwork for us to fill in.
There's nothing left.

They're literally begging us to stop.

[Souseiseki]

Also:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/683 ... leave-vote

Ireland begs British people to stop trying to immigrate to their country, in a supreme act of irony.
We've basically DDOS'd their immigration office.

They've run out of paperwork for us to fill in.
There's nothing left.

They're literally begging us to stop.

britain is, of course, famous for listen to ireland's wishes

*personally sends 10 applications*

[Neu Leonstein]

They're literally begging us to stop.

Another EU member who will lobby on Britain's behalf. I see a negotiation strategy coming.

[Ostroeuropa]

Also:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/683 ... leave-vote

Ireland begs British people to stop trying to immigrate to their country, in a supreme act of irony.
We've basically DDOS'd their immigration office.

They've run out of paperwork for us to fill in.
There's nothing left.

They're literally begging us to stop.

britain is, of course, famous for listen to ireland's wishes

*personally sends 10 applications*

This is the biggest political shitshow I have ever seen. Top notch drama. Almost worth it, if it weren't going to completely fuck the country.
I'm still hoping we pull back from the brink, but we've managed to completely start going batshit on the world stage, and everyone is staring in either horror or amusement. We're trolling europe and ireland and basically circling the drain, because we're such a special snowflake.

[Souseiseki]

britain is, of course, famous for listen to ireland's wishes

*personally sends 10 applications*

This is the biggest political shitshow I have ever seen. Top notch drama. Almost worth it, if it weren't going to completely fuck the country.
I'm still hoping we pull back from the brink.

"Merkel already talking as if the UK has gone. Refers to the 27 members of the EU. Hollande says Ger Fra Italy are the 3 big countries of EU"

[Glamour]

Also:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/683 ... leave-vote

Ireland begs British people to stop trying to immigrate to their country, in a supreme act of irony.
We've basically DDOS'd their immigration office.

They've run out of paperwork for us to fill in.
There's nothing left.

They're literally begging us to stop.

Another reason why Ireland would back Scotland being able to take them. And Scotland would gladly take them. But this would require Scotland would be in the EU which requires Westminster to declare Article 50 so that Scotland can go ahead with its independence referendum. All of this needs to happen as soon as possible which is why the EU is telling Westminster to declare Article 50 already. Germany has also said that there will be no talks on whether or not this should be done - it should be done, right away, and even informal talks are not to be had on the matter. But informal talks are to be had, and have been had, with Nicola Sturgeon. Including between her and Ireland.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... it-fallout

It looks like those who believe the EU are anti-democratic might have voted themselves democratically into a nation that will fail to see the value of democracy.

[Souseiseki]

"Billionaire Peter Hargreaves gave Leave £3m because exit EU 'better for UK'. Lost £410m since Friday"

[Arkolon]

So just on the markets:

GBP down another 3.5% or so - I quite like the 1-year chart... http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GBPUSD:CUR

It certainly seems to have stabilised like leave campaigners had said; although its with respect to the y axis...

By my rough approximation, a fall to 1.18 would make the UK the world's seventh largest economy, falling behind India. It's unlikely but how funny would that be.

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ate-Brexit

Superstate plans again.

Poland is flipping out and hyperventilating now that Britain is gone, and the plans have been unveiled.

The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.

Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.

Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees.

The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland - a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism - after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP Info.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

britain is, of course, famous for listen to ireland's wishes

*personally sends 10 applications*

This is the biggest political shitshow I have ever seen. Top notch drama. Almost worth it, if it weren't going to completely fuck the country.
I'm still hoping we pull back from the brink, but we've managed to completely start going batshit on the world stage, and everyone is staring in either horror or amusement. We're trolling europe and ireland and basically circling the drain, because we're such a special snowflake.

I am just looking with both feelings lol.

On the one hand, I am amused at the political drama. On the other hand I am looking the financial markets in England with utter shock.

[Souseiseki]

the express is frankly not much better than what you had earlier

e: and i think we can both agree on this as people that kinda want it to happen

[Ifreann]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

Superstate plans again.

Poland is flipping out and hyperventilating now that Britain is gone, and the plans have been unveiled.

The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.

Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.

Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees.

The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland - a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism - after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP Info.

Brussels will also send someone around to your house to lick all your doorknobs.

[Ostroeuropa]

the express is frankly not much better than what you had earlier

e: and i think we can both agree on this as people that kinda want it to happen

I agree. It would make more sense than the half-formed europe.

[Neu Leonstein]

Superstate plans again.

Here's an easy way to tell plausible from definitely incorrect stories: if they contain any hint of fiscal centralisation across the EU or euro area and cite Germany among the countries supporting them, they are false.

[Ostroeuropa]

Superstate plans again.

Here's an easy way to tell plausible from definitely incorrect stories: if they contain any hint of fiscal centralisation across the EU or euro area and cite Germany among the countries supporting them, they are false.

Why not actually address the content.

[Valystria]

Superstate plans again.

Here's an easy way to tell plausible from definitely incorrect stories: if they contain any hint of fiscal centralisation across the EU or euro area and cite Germany among the countries supporting them, they are false.

The public broadcaster reports that the bombshell proposal will be presented to a meeting of the Visegrad group of countries - made up of Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia - by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier later today.

Excerpts of the nine-page report were published today as the leaders of Germany, France and Italy met in Berlin for Brexit crisis talks.

Spain’s foreign minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo has called for “more Europe” whilst Italy’s finance minister, Carlo Padoan, is advocating a common budget for the eurozone states.

And Emmanuel Macron, France’s economy minister, wants to go even further and set up a common eurozone treasury which would oversee the permanent transfer of funds from wealthier northern Europe to shore up Mediterranean economies.

It's being presented by Germany. Yet according to you, Germany is lying, the EU is lying, the EU's internal documents are lying, and despite the evidence indicating the EU is actually rushing for superstate centralization you're arbitrarily saying no it isn't so because Germany is supporting it.

[Neu Leonstein]

Why not actually address the content.

I did...

The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.

Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.