UK Referendum Thread [Moderator Sanctioned]

[Ifreann]

Cameron sounds very upbeat in this debate.that's starting now on five live.

Of course he does. He knows he's dodged a massive bullet by "resigning" so promptly after the result.

I'd say he's been giving Samantha the good loving ever since he "resigned". Lights on and everything.

[Ifreann]

Those are some pretty dramatic u-turns from the press right there.

“The next possible route to an EU passport is marriage,” continues the erstwhile campaigner against sham marriages.

*waves Irish passport*
Ladies.

[Vassenor]

Those are some pretty dramatic u-turns from the press right there.

“The next possible route to an EU passport is marriage,” continues the erstwhile campaigner against sham marriages.

*waves Irish passport*
Ladies.

...

[Souseiseki]

Those are some pretty dramatic u-turns from the press right there.

“The next possible route to an EU passport is marriage,” continues the erstwhile campaigner against sham marriages.

*waves Irish passport*
Ladies.

i already pre-claimed you a week ago, if you remember correctly

[Ostroeuropa]

ostro how do you feel about the increase in incidents of racial abuse or people literally being beaten unconscious by people after the referndum

This was an inevitable consequence of the factors at play, but it's ultimately a symptom, one made worse by the "cure" of neoliberal elites screaming "racism!" at people to demonize opposition to their policy.

[Souseiseki]

ostro how do you feel about the increase in incidents of racial abuse or people literally being beaten unconscious by people after the referndum

This was an inevitable consequence of the factors at play, but it's ultimately a symptom, one made worse by the "cure" of neoliberal elites screaming "racism!" at people to demonize opposition to their policy.

do you think that the people smashing polish kids heads in might have actually just be really racist all along

[The Blaatschapen]

*waves Irish passport*
Ladies.

i already pre-claimed you a week ago, if you remember correctly

*waves Dutch passport*

Are Welsh women also into sheep?

[Souseiseki]

*shouts go home to anyone that looks vaguely brown on bus*
*complains about liberal elites calling them racist*

[Arkolon]

Sterling value falls further, reaching a thirty-one year record low.

"The pound was stable during the weekend, clearly it was recovering!"

[Soldati Senza Confini]

ostro how do you feel about the increase in incidents of racial abuse or people literally being beaten unconscious by people after the referndum

This was an inevitable consequence of the factors at play, but it's ultimately a symptom, one made worse by the "cure" of neoliberal elites screaming "racism!" at people to demonize opposition to their policy.

I mean, it is racist.

What else can you call it? A "correction"?

[Ostroeuropa]

This was an inevitable consequence of the factors at play, but it's ultimately a symptom, one made worse by the "cure" of neoliberal elites screaming "racism!" at people to demonize opposition to their policy.

do you think that the people smashing polish kids heads in might have actually just be really racist all along

No. I don't think racism happens in a vacuum. For example of why there's been an increase in racism, take a look at a microcosm incident example from reddit and look at the underlying mechanisms at play.

1. /r/News begins censoring discussion of the Orlando shooter being a muslim, purges comments and articles mentioning this. So do all the mainstream subs which are controlled by these types.

2. In response, as one commenter aptly points out, they have effectively forced a situation where the entirety of reddit, if they wish to know the news, will need to enter subs where nazis live and be exposed to their way of framing the narrative and solutions as the baseline for discussion and how the conversation is started.

This has essentially been repeated for upwards of thirty years, with increasing intensity, over a number of incidents, and many issues.
If some of the only people talking about the threat of globalism are racists, then racism will increase.

The more issues you cede for racists to have a monopoly on, the more powerful they will become.

These people smashing in poles heads weren't racists all along. They were turned into racists because it was the explanation provided to them that made the most sense of the world, and that is a result of catastrophic failure on the part of western institutions and politicians to engage with people in a way that relates to their lives and experiences.

Not only are all opinions of race outside the neoliberal multicultural orthodoxy de-facto ceded to the racists, most discussion of economics is too.

I'm not talking about leftist supporters and such, but rather, the actual official stances of the political organizations.

[Ifreann]

*waves Irish passport*
Ladies.

i already pre-claimed you a week ago, if you remember correctly

So you did, so you did.

How do you feel about sham citizenship adoptions?

[Vassenor]

Diplomats dismiss idea UK could stay in single market without obeying the rules, and German BDI also pushes back at claims

So either we follow the same rules as everyone else, or we GTFO. We're not getting the "no strings attached" tariff-free trade deal that everyone thinks we can.

[Souseiseki]

These people smashing in poles heads weren't racists all along. They were turned into racists because it was the explanation provided to them that made the most sense of the world, and that is a result of catastrophic failure on the part of western institutions and politicians to engage with people in a way that relates to their lives and experiences.

so they actually are racist and they became racists probably because of their own ignorance or people actively lying to them but it's also our fault for not pretending their racist ignorance based on lies was really a legitimate concern of immigwation all along?

e: you're right about the last part though blarities and tories need to go :^)

[Soldati Senza Confini]

*shouts go home to anyone that looks vaguely brown on bus*
*complains about liberal elites calling them racist*

I think the problem Ostro is pointing out is that racism is not an inherent condition of people.

Of which I agree with him, even though I don't agree with how he worded his comment.

You're not born being racist, you learn how to be a racist.

[Vassenor]

So we're trying to say it's not racist to scream GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY while smashing someone's face in?

[Seraven]

This was an inevitable consequence of the factors at play, but it's ultimately a symptom, one made worse by the "cure" of neoliberal elites screaming "racism!" at people to demonize opposition to their policy.

do you think that the people smashing polish kids heads in might have actually just be really racist all along

Probably more have to do with the fact that they now have some sort of excuse, a rational excuse according to them.

[Ostroeuropa]

These people smashing in poles heads weren't racists all along. They were turned into racists because it was the explanation provided to them that made the most sense of the world, and that is a result of catastrophic failure on the part of western institutions and politicians to engage with people in a way that relates to their lives and experiences.

so they actually are racist and they became racists probably because of their own ignorance or people actively lying to them but it's also our fault for not pretending their racist ignorance based on lies was really a legitimate concern of immigwation all along?

Some of the leave supporters are racists yes.
You're calling them ignorant, but it isn't so. Rather, you're ignorant of their perspective and why it makes sense to them.
Yes, the demonization of people who support immgiration reform as racists has been one reason for the rise of racism.

I was being perfectly clear in my statements.

The more issues you cede for racists to have a monopoly on, the stronger their faction will get.

[Minoa]

Hi,

Things have been very worrying for all of us and my friends who are no ethnically British, especially in light of the recent events, and I have become determined to develop an escape plan if things get much worse. Today I have found out that I can resume the nationality of my mother because of a change to nationality law back in 2000. According to the IMF, this country only has public debt of 38.246% of the GDP, and a base interest rate of 1.5%.

[Arkolon]

Diplomats dismiss idea UK could stay in single market without obeying the rules, and German BDI also pushes back at claims

So either we follow the same rules as everyone else, or we GTFO. We're not getting the "no strings attached" tariff-free trade deal that everyone thinks we can.

Soon we'll make a full circle, where we realise what we wanted all along was access to the single market, an opt-out of the euro and Schengen Area, an opt-out for the ever-closer union, the ability to cut back welfare spending on migrants as well as EU immigration, and generous protections for our financial sector.

[Souseiseki]

so they actually are racist and they became racists probably because of their own ignorance or people actively lying to them but it's also our fault for not pretending their racist ignorance based on lies was really a legitimate concern of immigwation all along?

Some of the leave supporters are racists yes.
You're calling them ignorant, but it isn't so. Rather, you're ignorant of their perspective and why it makes sense to them.
Yes, the demonization of people who support immgiration reform as racists has been one reason for the rise of racism.

I was being perfectly clear in my statements.

The more issues you cede for racists to have a monopoly on, the stronger their faction will get.

i mean, anti-semitism makes perfect sense from an anti-semetic perspective. that doesn't mean i'm not going to call it a bunch of ignorant shite.

[Seraven]

Because there are less people in the Remainers who regretted their decisions.

I wonder if there's anyone in the UK looking at the state of affairs and thinking "Gosh, I wish I'd voted leave"

Maybe there are, just less in number, like Arch's post.

Hi,

Things have been very worrying for all of us and my friends who are no ethnically British, especially in light of the recent events, and I have become determined to develop an escape plan if things get much worse. Today I have found out that I can resume the nationality of my mother because of a change to nationality law back in 2000. According to the IMF, this country only has public debt of 38.246% of the GDP, and a base interest rate of 1.5%.

Do that.

Or maybe go to Scotland? Most people there voted for remain, after all. Maybe friendlier too.

[Souseiseki]

Diplomats dismiss idea UK could stay in single market without obeying the rules, and German BDI also pushes back at claims

So either we follow the same rules as everyone else, or we GTFO. We're not getting the "no strings attached" tariff-free trade deal that everyone thinks we can.

Soon we'll make a full circle, where we realise what we wanted all along was access to the single market, an opt-out of the euro and Schengen Area, an opt-out for the ever-closer union, the ability to cut back welfare spending on migrants as well as EU immigration, and generous protections for our financial sector.

isn't this, with one except, exactly what we already had

or is that the joke

[Ostroeuropa]

Some of the leave supporters are racists yes.
You're calling them ignorant, but it isn't so. Rather, you're ignorant of their perspective and why it makes sense to them.
Yes, the demonization of people who support immgiration reform as racists has been one reason for the rise of racism.

I was being perfectly clear in my statements.

The more issues you cede for racists to have a monopoly on, the stronger their faction will get.

i mean, anti-semitism makes perfect sense from an anti-semetic perspective. that doesn't mean i'm not going to call it a bunch of ignorant shite.

If all you do is call them names without addressing the problems that lead them to these conclusions, you have ceded the issue to them, and are effectively conceding they are right, but it makes you mad.

[Arkolon]

Soon we'll make a full circle, where we realise what we wanted all along was access to the single market, an opt-out of the euro and Schengen Area, an opt-out for the ever-closer union, the ability to cut back welfare spending on migrants as well as EU immigration, and generous protections for our financial sector.

isn't this, with one except, exactly what we already had

or is that the joke

That's the joke indeed. It sounds like the sweetest deal Merkel & Juncker could ever offer us ... if it wasn't for the fact that that's what we already had and we outright refused to keep it.