US Diplomats Urge Barack to Obomba Bashar

[United Marxist Nations]

That is actually best case scenario for a non-Assad victory. Worst case is that it reaps eternal war.

Eternal War sounds kind of cool, actually.

In the Grim Darkness of the Syrian desert...

[Ganos Lao]

Eliminating Assad all but assures an Islamist victory. Goodbye democracy, hello Saudi Arabia's version of Manchukuo.

That is actually best case scenario for a non-Assad victory. Worst case is that it reaps eternal war.

Saudi Arabia profiting is not at all best-case anything.

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

The Lion Assad, Victor In The Incredibly Democratic Elections of 2015/16, Sheller Of Uppity Towns Which If You'll Remember Was The Root Cause Of This Whole Thing is not an honest man.

You missed the point of my post, and are also incorrect if you think I think so highly of the guy.

It's not that I support him. I don't. I just think there's no reason not to support him, or at least work with him, until we have someone in the wings who is quality leadership material.

It won't be worth removing him just to have an al-Maliki pop up and fuck Syria up even further. We owe it to the Syrians to help them find good government, not to simply pull a "well, Saddam's gone, mission accomplished" again.

Ok let's pull a Congo then.

"You get Mobutu instead of the commies yay."

[Senkaku]

I too would like to risk provoking war with Russia. /s

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

You missed the point of my post, and are also incorrect if you think I think so highly of the guy.

It's not that I support him. I don't. I just think there's no reason not to support him, or at least work with him, until we have someone in the wings who is quality leadership material.

It won't be worth removing him just to have an al-Maliki pop up and fuck Syria up even further. We owe it to the Syrians to help them find good government, not to simply pull a "well, Saddam's gone, mission accomplished" again.

Ok let's pull a Congo then.

"You get Mobutu instead of the commies yay."

All of the AIDS, none of the capitalism.

[The East Marches]

To quote Stefan Memeneux "Not an argument".

Nor is "if only we had supported it, which we didn't, it would exist", really.

I've got congressional and pentagon stuff to back that assertion. "moronic_western_fantasy.txt" doesn't.

[Ganos Lao]

You missed the point of my post, and are also incorrect if you think I think so highly of the guy.

It's not that I support him. I don't. I just think there's no reason not to support him, or at least work with him, until we have someone in the wings who is quality leadership material.

It won't be worth removing him just to have an al-Maliki pop up and fuck Syria up even further. We owe it to the Syrians to help them find good government, not to simply pull a "well, Saddam's gone, mission accomplished" again.

Ok let's pull a Congo then.

"You get Mobutu instead of the commies yay."

Let's say Assad's gone. The circumstances of his departure aren't important - he's just gone.

Who do we know in the country of Syria that could not only replace him but do a good job?

[Ganos Lao]

Ok let's pull a Congo then.

"You get Mobutu instead of the commies yay."

All of the AIDS, none of the capitalism.

In Syria's case, it'd be all of the terrorism, none of the promised freedom.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

The Lion Assad, Victor In The Incredibly Democratic Elections of 2015/16, Sheller Of Uppity Towns Which If You'll Remember Was The Root Cause Of This Whole Thing is not an honest man.

You missed the point of my post, and are also incorrect if you think I think so highly of the guy.

No your problem is that you've bought into a fantasy of him being the one honest player in the middle east, or possibly one of two including Russia.

Not true. He is simpering at home. Same goes for Putin and Medvyedev. It's gross.

[The East Marches]

Ok let's pull a Congo then.

"You get Mobutu instead of the commies yay."

Let's say Assad's gone. The circumstances of his departure aren't important - he's just gone.

Who do we know in the country of Syria that could not only replace him but do a good job?

Should we care about the good job part? I'm all for the tinpot dictator who can keep a lid on things for at least 20 years. I don't even believe we have that standard met.

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

Ok let's pull a Congo then.

"You get Mobutu instead of the commies yay."

Let's say Assad's gone. The circumstances of his departure aren't important - he's just gone.

Who do we know in the country of Syria that could not only replace him but do a good job?

The circumstances of his departure are important.

Let's have him agree to step down to an interim government after ISIS & similar types are gone.

[Ganos Lao]

I too would like to risk provoking war with Russia. /s

Russia won't go to war with the West (IMHO I think Russia is a part of the West) because they don't care that much about Syria to get involved in a war. Russia doesn't care about Syria at all, really.

This is just the same old, same old that the Cold War was all about.

[The East Marches]

I too would like to risk provoking war with Russia. /s

They lost a jet and the Turks had the balls to ask them for reparations after the fact. The Russians won't fight the third world war for Syria.

[Ganos Lao]

Let's say Assad's gone. The circumstances of his departure aren't important - he's just gone.

Who do we know in the country of Syria that could not only replace him but do a good job?

The circumstances of his departure are important.

Let's have him agree to step down to an interim government after ISIS & similar types are gone.

For the purposes of the argument, they aren't, though.

But I do agree with you on him stepping down. I just don't want to see another Iraq, you know? By all means, deal with Assad, but do it right or don't do it at all.

[Ganos Lao]

Let's say Assad's gone. The circumstances of his departure aren't important - he's just gone.

Who do we know in the country of Syria that could not only replace him but do a good job?

Should we care about the good job part? I'm all for the tinpot dictator who can keep a lid on things for at least 20 years. I don't even believe we have that standard met.

The problem is that the most likely successor is someone from a known al-Qaeda affliate (itself part of an entire coalition loyal to AQ) that will most likely throw the lid away, driving the Alawites who survive the mass murder campaigns into Europe, where they will be accused by the far right of being out to destroy the European way of life. The cycle continues, and we're stuck at square one.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

I too would like to risk provoking war with Russia. /s

They lost a jet and the Turks had the balls to ask them for reparations after the fact. The Russians won't fight the third world war for Syria.

Some polonium for erdogan sounds lovely this time of year though.

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

The circumstances of his departure are important.

Let's have him agree to step down to an interim government after ISIS & similar types are gone.

For the purposes of the argument, they aren't, though.

But I do agree with you on him stepping down. I just don't want to see another Iraq, you know? By all means, deal with Assad, but do it right or don't do it at all.

And that is exactly what this is about. He's such an ass that he refuses to step down after the shits all over (a key and controversial point of the negotiations with the opposition).

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

We've got an aggressive despot who, despite his leanings, put forth effort to better Syria through modernization and updating; we've got various rebel groups with independent causes; we've got theocratic militants with plans to conquer multiple countries and destroy thousands of years of ancient history by demolishing museums, destroying artifacts, and committing mass genocide against the descendants of these ancient cultures, all the while imposing strict bans on electricity, shaving, showing skin, secular learning, freedom of movement, most forms of media, among so many other things on pain of brutal death via knife-beheading.

Say what you want about Assad, he never threatened to blow up the Egyptian pyramids, burial structures older than most civilizations in the modern world who have done nothing wrong against Islam, not even acting with a religious purpose in their time of building (rather, being a tomb than a temple), except being constructed before Muhammad was born. To me, the larger threat is much more clear. We should not waste our time with a petty dictator when we have a very serious threat to thousands of years of culture and world history committing genocide against pretty much everyone.

[The East Marches]

Should we care about the good job part? I'm all for the tinpot dictator who can keep a lid on things for at least 20 years. I don't even believe we have that standard met.

The problem is that the most likely successor is someone from a known al-Qaeda affliate (itself part of an entire coalition loyal to AQ) that will most likely throw the lid away, driving the Alawites who survive the mass murder campaigns into Europe, where they will be accused by the far right of being out to destroy the European way of life. The cycle continues, and we're stuck at square one.

Shia are not much better than the Sunni for radical and stupid ideas. The difference being they are willing to be manipulated by the Aytollahs in Tehran rather than the gentlemen in Ridyah. I dislike the current scenario due to its causing the current refugee crisis and the lack of backbone being shown in Brusels. I wonder if the Shia/Sunni divide would play out in the refugee communities. I'm just rambling but it would interesting to see if a microcosm of the Syrian war might travel to Europe more than it has.

Though I agree that is the likely scenario of the loss of Assad at this time.

[The East Marches]

They lost a jet and the Turks had the balls to ask them for reparations after the fact. The Russians won't fight the third world war for Syria.

Some polonium for erdogan sounds lovely this time of year though.

I would prefer a Western backed coup. A man can dream.

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

Some polonium for erdogan sounds lovely this time of year though.

I would prefer a Western backed coup. A man can dream.

Another?

You'll just give the leftist Turks another opportunity to bitch about how the US saved them from civil war again.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

I would prefer a Western backed coup. A man can dream.

Another?

You'll just give the leftist Turks another opportunity to bitch about how the US saved them from civil war again.

U-S-A!
U-S-A!
U-S-A!

[The East Marches]

I would prefer a Western backed coup. A man can dream.

Another?

You'll just give the leftist Turks another opportunity to bitch about how the US saved them from civil war again.

Tbh it's worked pretty well in the past. It's certainly "solved" problems before.

You are right though. The levels of buttmad by the Turkish leftists might crash the internet if we did that again. Would make for good trolling material to use though. There is that.

Edit: I would never troll on NSG, that above comment was meant for me using things in the future on /int/, reddit or something.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Some polonium for erdogan sounds lovely this time of year though.

I would prefer a Western backed coup. A man can dream.

I'm not entirely convinced this would work. The Middle East at the moment is filled with various forms of what is essentially tribalism. There's Semites vs. Iranians (Specifically, Arabs and Kurds), Muslim vs. Christian vs. Jewish, Sunni vs. Shi'ite, etc. A coup across a large region would prove ineffective, as the new government would never achieve the support it needs, nor the tolerance of other groups that is required, until these cultural, ethnic, and religious tensions are resolved. Otherwise, the country is just likely to fall apart again.

[Utilitarian Garibaldi]

I would prefer a Western backed coup. A man can dream.

I'm not entirely convinced this would work. The Middle East at the moment is filled with various forms of what is essentially tribalism. There's Semites vs. Iranians (Specifically, Arabs and Kurds), Muslim vs. Christian vs. Jewish, Sunni vs. Shi'ite, etc. A coup across a large region would prove ineffective, as the new government would never achieve the support it needs, nor the tolerance of other groups that is required, until these cultural, ethnic, and religious tensions are resolved. Otherwise, the country is just likely to fall apart again.

This for Erdogan though.