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WW II in the Pacific. It could have been avoided it seems.

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Rio Cana
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WW II in the Pacific. It could have been avoided it seems.

Postby Rio Cana » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:00 pm

While surfing through you tube, came upon a BBC rare documentary on the fall of Singapore. In reality, the documentary seems to dwell more on two UK. military ranking officials who later used there military knowledge to build up Japans Naval Air Power. They also sold, at least one of them, UK. weapon plans and tech information. In other words, without there help Japan might not have developed Naval air power and carriers which equaled the UK. Thus, WW II and the millions in casualties it cost in Asia might have been avoided. The Japanese attack on the US might also not have happened.Yes, it seems UK. sources also informed the Japanese on the US base in Hawaii. Has for Singapore, a UK. intel officer recommended less artillery and more fighter airplanes since he checked the area and believed that a land attack of Singapore was most likely. His suggestion was not taken and he was retired for his trouble. This documentary really dwells on things you do not hear in history books. And yes, the UK. intel knew about these people since the 1920's but because of royal titles and not wanting to give up there sources they did nothing. Later it even seems the UK. PM during WW II tried to cover up the doings of at least one of the persons, the one with the royal title. :o

You got to see this documentary. It does seem the War in the Pacific could have been avoided.
This will take you to it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVpAN_lQgcA
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:29 pm

Rio Cana wrote:While surfing through you tube, came upon a BBC rare documentary on the fall of Singapore. In reality, the documentary seems to dwell more on two UK. military ranking officials who later used there military knowledge to build up Japans Naval Air Power. They also sold, at least one of them, UK. weapon plans and tech information. In other words, without there help Japan might not have developed Naval air power and carriers which equaled the UK. Thus, WW II and the millions in casualties it cost in Asia might have been avoided. The Japanese attack on the US might also not have happened.Yes, it seems UK. sources also informed the Japanese on the US base in Hawaii. Has for Singapore, a UK. intel officer recommended less artillery and more fighter airplanes since he checked the area and believed that a land attack of Singapore was most likely. His suggestion was not taken and he was retired for his trouble. This documentary really dwells on things you do not hear in history books. And yes, the UK. intel knew about these people since the 1920's but because of royal titles and not wanting to give up there sources they did nothing. Later it even seems the UK. PM during WW II tried to cover up the doings of at least one of the persons, the one with the royal title. :o

You got to see this documentary. It does seem the War in the Pacific could have been avoided.
This will take you to it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVpAN_lQgcA

There's a few flaws with your argument:
  • Britain and Japan were in a formal alliance when the Sempill Mission was dispatched, so of course there was no reason for Britain to assume that their own knowledge would be used against them.
  • Japan had already built an aircraft carrier before the British got involved, and there's no reason to assume that they couldn't develop carrier operations techniques on their own. After all, the Americans did it by themselves.
  • The British government was also unwilling to prosecute Sempill for espionage because doing so would have revealed that the British had decrypted the Japanese codes.
  • After the US placed the oil embargo on Japan, Japan's only options were to withdraw from China and lose face, or neutralize the British and American forces so that they could invade the Dutch East Indies without opposition; regardless of everything that the documentary talks about, at this point war was unavoidable, the Japanese were already committed to it.
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Allet Klar Chefs
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Founded: Apr 26, 2014
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Postby Allet Klar Chefs » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:14 pm

Rio Cana wrote:While surfing through you tube, came upon a BBC rare documentary on the fall of Singapore. In reality, the documentary seems to dwell more on two UK. military ranking officials who later used there military knowledge to build up Japans Naval Air Power. They also sold, at least one of them, UK. weapon plans and tech information. In other words, without there help Japan might not have developed Naval air power and carriers which equaled the UK. Thus, WW II and the millions in casualties it cost in Asia might have been avoided.

Japanese carrier-based fighters were significantly better than their British equivalents at the start of the White People's Pacific Theatre, and they had more carriers in the region. If you don't think the Japanese were capable of designing a ship with a big flat deck, catapult, arrestor hooks and some hydraulic lifts during an interwar period where they were almost constantly under military rule then I don't know what to say to you.

The Japanese attacks on the Dutch East Indies, Singapore and so on occurred thirty years after their occupation of Korea, ten years after their attacks on China, and two years after they tried to invade Russia and were repulsed. It's not like there wasn't already a war going on.

e: as to why the Japanese took Singapore so easily, it was basically down to the same dumb racism that you're espousing. "The Japs don't know how to fight us, we're much more advanced, etc. etc.". If you look at the defence requirements subcommittee files from the 1930s, the British attitude is basically "send whatever old crap you like down here, the main thing is to look a little frightening to the silly Japs and they won't do a thing". They were sending 1920s floatplanes up against Zero fighters, the whole thing was just imperial hubris in action.
Last edited by Allet Klar Chefs on Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FutureAmerica
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Founded: May 20, 2014
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Postby FutureAmerica » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:38 am

It couldn't have been avoided. If the Japanese didn't attack Pearl, then there would have been a major battle in the Philippines in 1941.

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Stormopolis
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Posts: 638
Founded: Oct 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Stormopolis » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:40 am

Allet Klar Chefs wrote:
Rio Cana wrote:While surfing through you tube, came upon a BBC rare documentary on the fall of Singapore. In reality, the documentary seems to dwell more on two UK. military ranking officials who later used there military knowledge to build up Japans Naval Air Power. They also sold, at least one of them, UK. weapon plans and tech information. In other words, without there help Japan might not have developed Naval air power and carriers which equaled the UK. Thus, WW II and the millions in casualties it cost in Asia might have been avoided.

Japanese carrier-based fighters were significantly better than their British equivalents at the start of the White People's Pacific Theatre, and they had more carriers in the region. If you don't think the Japanese were capable of designing a ship with a big flat deck, catapult, arrestor hooks and some hydraulic lifts during an interwar period where they were almost constantly under military rule then I don't know what to say to you.

The Japanese attacks on the Dutch East Indies, Singapore and so on occurred thirty years after their occupation of Korea, ten years after their attacks on China, and two years after they tried to invade Russia and were repulsed. It's not like there wasn't already a war going on.

e: as to why the Japanese took Singapore so easily, it was basically down to the same dumb racism that you're espousing. "The Japs don't know how to fight us, we're much more advanced, etc. etc.". If you look at the defence requirements subcommittee files from the 1930s, the British attitude is basically "send whatever old crap you like down here, the main thing is to look a little frightening to the silly Japs and they won't do a thing". They were sending 1920s floatplanes up against Zero fighters, the whole thing was just imperial hubris in action.


You point out an important piece of knowledge lots of people tend to forget: Japan had already been at war for a decade when WW2 "truly" began.
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