Right-Wing Discussion Thread Part Two

[Aceh Ventura]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X5H4h1Z1nc

So Donald Trump has a private corporate 757 that he plans to use instead of Air Force One if he's elected. It is pretty nice. He will be the type to always fly in style. Mahogany furnishings, gold trim, premium leather, the works.

Good. This way an important American relic will not be harmed as he is taken care of.

[Dejanic]

Not at all, I'd place it on the Left alongside Stalinism and Maoism if you're going to place it based purely on economics, there's nothing inherently right wing about a big Socialist proclaimed state mass murdering people, the only people who claim Nazism is inherently right wing are edgy far-leftists where as most academics and political scientists will point out its third positionist nature, combined with left leaning economics

The left-right spectrum isn't just about economics. You can't just say "well, the Nazis liked government intervention in the market in order to fuel the war machine, and government intervention is leftist, therefore Nazism is leftist". When it comes down to it, the left-right spectrum is about whether you believe social hierarchy is necessary or desirable for society. Nazism inherently loves social hierarchy.

According to that definition Stalinism is right wing with their belief in a solid social hierachy, as is North Korea, it doesn't really make much sense. Where as judging right vs left on an economic scale, and Libertarian vs Authoritarian on a completely seperate scale (which is what pretty much all modern political scientists do) makes complete and utter sense.

[Freefall11111]

The left-right spectrum isn't just about economics. You can't just say "well, the Nazis liked government intervention in the market in order to fuel the war machine, and government intervention is leftist, therefore Nazism is leftist". When it comes down to it, the left-right spectrum is about whether you believe social hierarchy is necessary or desirable for society. Nazism inherently loves social hierarchy.

According to that definition Stalinism is right wing with their belief in a solid social hierachy, as is North Korea, it doesn't really make much sense. Where as judging right vs left on an economic scale, and Libertarian vs Authoritarian on a completely seperate scale (which is what pretty much all modern political scientists do) makes complete and utter sense.

I don't see the problem with defining Stalinism and Juche as far-right.

[Dejanic]

According to that definition Stalinism is right wing with their belief in a solid social hierachy, as is North Korea, it doesn't really make much sense. Where as judging right vs left on an economic scale, and Libertarian vs Authoritarian on a completely seperate scale (which is what pretty much all modern political scientists do) makes complete and utter sense.

I don't see the problem with defining Stalinism and Juche as far-right.

No, they're left Authoritarian, the same with Nazism. See the belief in a social hierarchy, the genoside, the state backed labour camps, etc, aren't an inherent part of "the right" as you'd put it, they're an inherent part of the authoritarian nature of these regimes, it's got nothing to do with left vs right. It's pretty unfair and biased to basically define "the right" with genoside, mass murder, etc.

[Dushan]

I'd say the major difference lies in the "Weltanschauung". (Worldview)

Left and Right look upon the World with different perception of things.

This is not a mere question if you're for or against something. This goes deeper.

Ask yourself why you have the position that you have, and go to the bottom and the core of that question.

Also do not underestimate indoctrination by the Mass-Media who deliever you pre-defined Sets of Values and Ideas. In the US this has until recently being either the Democrat or GOP creed delievered by Liberal or Conservative Media. The good thing of the Alt-Right and the Sanders supporters alike is that they do no longer stomach this garbage offered by a rotten and failed etablishment.

[Northern Davincia]

According to that definition Stalinism is right wing with their belief in a solid social hierachy, as is North Korea, it doesn't really make much sense. Where as judging right vs left on an economic scale, and Libertarian vs Authoritarian on a completely seperate scale (which is what pretty much all modern political scientists do) makes complete and utter sense.

I don't see the problem with defining Stalinism and Juche as far-right.

Stalinism is nothing more than Slavic Fascism.

[The East Marches]

I'd say the major difference lies in the "Weltanschauung". (Worldview)

Left and Right look upon the World with different perception of things.

This is not a mere question if you're for or against something. This goes deeper.

Ask yourself why you have the position that you have, and go to the bottom and the core of that question.

Also do not underestimate indoctrination by the Mass-Media who deliever you pre-defined Sets of Values and Ideas. In the US this has until recently being either the Democrat or GOP creed delievered by Liberal or Conservative Media. The good thing of the Alt-Right and the Sanders supporters alike is that they do no longer stomach this garbage offered by a rotten and failed etablishment.

I agree with this post, very well put.

On that note, what shapes your "Weltanschauung" or "Worldview" RWDT? I'm interested in knowing why or what are the reasons for some of the more eclectic views here.

[Korouse]

The only people who claim Nazis are "third position" are edgy Nazis who want to be cool and pretend they're not part of the standard political spectrum when they really are.

Nazism fits perfectly within the left-right spectrum if we're going off of its traditional, and correct, definition of social hierarchy.

Not at all, I'd place it on the Left alongside Stalinism and Maoism if you're going to place it based purely on economics, there's nothing inherently right wing about a big Socialist proclaimed state mass murdering people, the only people who claim Nazism is inherently right wing are edgy far-leftists where as most academics and political scientists will point out its third positionist nature, combined with left leaning economics

I think it's pretty self-evident that Nazism is right-wing when essentially all the Nazis claim themselves to be right-wing.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

And the right claims to be patriotic. Beneath much nationalist fervor, I tend to find opportunism, hypocrisy, and a convincing facade of aggressively-principled anger hiding what's ultimately known as cowardice.

"The right" doesn't claim anything. People on the right claim things, and yes, some of them are indeed hypocrites. But not all rightist are hypocrites or opportunists. And left-wingers are hardly beyond reproach when it comes to these things.

Oh, spare me the semantics, OT.

The Left has plenty of hypocrisy, absolutely. I do think we might have a bit less opportunism than the Right (though it's definitely around) - solely because we've lost a lot.

I was referring pretty exclusively to the ideology of nationalism in my description. And nationalism is certainly more prevalent among right-wingers. My "side" is not beyond reproach, of course, but there's no need for an argument that boils down to "I know you are but what am I."

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Not at all, I'd place it on the Left alongside Stalinism and Maoism if you're going to place it based purely on economics, there's nothing inherently right wing about a big Socialist proclaimed state mass murdering people, the only people who claim Nazism is inherently right wing are edgy far-leftists where as most academics and political scientists will point out its third positionist nature, combined with left leaning economics

...wat.

Like, almost everyone considers Nazism right-wing. You go ask a person on the street if Nazis are left-wingers and they'll look at you like you're insane. Some claim it to be "politically syncretic" or some such bullshit, but that's pretty fucking rare. I have no idea how you could have gotten this idea. (Also, I'm hoping you aren't seriously under the impression the Third Reich was in any way socialist. At all. They literally persecuted the entire left, communists to socdems. lol.)

Anyway, there's plenty that's right-wing about said state. The right-left spectrum is based on the dichotomy between hierarchy and equality. Farther right, more hierarchical; farther left, more equal. And Nazi Germany wasn't exactly adverse to stratified hierarchy, from what I've seen.

[Geilinor]

The only people who claim Nazis are "third position" are edgy Nazis who want to be cool and pretend they're not part of the standard political spectrum when they really are.

Nazism fits perfectly within the left-right spectrum if we're going off of its traditional, and correct, definition of social hierarchy.

Not at all, I'd place it on the Left alongside Stalinism and Maoism if you're going to place it based purely on economics, there's nothing inherently right wing about a big Socialist proclaimed state mass murdering people, the only people who claim Nazism is inherently right wing are edgy far-leftists where as most academics and political scientists will point out its third positionist nature, combined with left leaning economics

Nazism is right-wing because of its belief in a strict social hierarchy.

[Freefall11111]

I don't see the problem with defining Stalinism and Juche as far-right.

No, they're left Authoritarian, the same with Nazism. See the belief in a social hierarchy, the genoside, the state backed labour camps, etc, aren't an inherent part of "the right" as you'd put it, they're an inherent part of the authoritarian nature of these regimes, it's got nothing to do with left vs right. It's pretty unfair and biased to basically define "the right" with genoside, mass murder, etc.

How? The left-right spectrum isn't about fairness. It's about describing who believes in the necessity of a social hierarchy. If the far-right's love of social hierarchy results in genocide, too bad.

[Geilinor]

I don't see the problem with defining Stalinism and Juche as far-right.

No, they're left Authoritarian, the same with Nazism. See the belief in a social hierarchy, the genoside, the state backed labour camps, etc, aren't an inherent part of "the right" as you'd put it, they're an inherent part of the authoritarian nature of these regimes, it's got nothing to do with left vs right. It's pretty unfair and biased to basically define "the right" with genoside, mass murder, etc.

The left-wing is theoretically, at least according to the definition that originated with the French Revolution, meant to be about greater equality.

[Dushan]

The right-left spectrum is based on the dichotomy between hierarchy and equality. Farther right, more hierarchical; farther left, more equal.

Thats an interesting view. It not only simple and straightforward but also intriguing to me.

Would you say that this dichtonomy is the defining moment of the differences between left and right?

[Geilinor]

The right-left spectrum is based on the dichotomy between hierarchy and equality. Farther right, more hierarchical; farther left, more equal.

Thats an interesting view. It not only simple and straightforward but also intriguing to me.

Would you say that this dichtonomy is the defining moment of the differences between left and right?

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left–right_politics#History_of_the_terms[/url]

The Scottish sociologist Robert M. MacIver noted in The Web of Government (1947):

The right is always the party sector associated with the interests of the upper or dominant classes, the left the sector expressive of the lower economic or social classes, and the centre that of the middle classes. Historically this criterion seems acceptable. The conservative right has defended entrenched prerogatives, privileges and powers; the left has attacked them. The right has been more favorable to the aristocratic position, to the hierarchy of birth or of wealth; the left has fought for the equalization of advantage or of opportunity, for the claims of the less advantaged. Defense and attack have met, under democratic conditions, not in the name of class but in the name of principle; but the opposing principles have broadly corresponded to the interests of the different classes.[17]

[George Rockwell]

I've gone Full. Rockwell.

[The Grey Wolf]

So. America. Its gonna fall. Anyone know of a house in Canada I can purchase?

And the right claims to be patriotic. Beneath much nationalist fervor, I tend to find opportunism, hypocrisy, and a convincing facade of aggressively-principled anger hiding what's ultimately known as cowardice.

Most American patriots tend to predicate their patriotism on American "freedom." (i.e the interest of the bourgeois) and not on any claim to blood, soil, or spirit. Though I don't know Clor's position on nationalism, for all we know, he could be opposed to it. Nothing is more amusing than an anarchist or Marxist accusing the other side of "a convincing facade of aggressively-principled anger hiding what's ultimately known as cowardice." yeah, Pruss, we're sure when the worker's revolution comes about, you and the class revolutionary vanguard will be at the front leading the charge to freedom; and not, you know, cowering at the sound of bullets, or sobbing because your best friend got his legs blown off in a civil war you created.

[George Rockwell]

And the right claims to be patriotic. Beneath much nationalist fervor, I tend to find opportunism, hypocrisy, and a convincing facade of aggressively-principled anger hiding what's ultimately known as cowardice.

Most American patriots tend to predicate their patriotism on American "freedom." (i.e the interest of the bourgeois) and not on any claim to blood, soil, or spirit. Though I don't know Clor's position on nationalism, for all we know, he could be opposed to it. Nothing is more amusing than an anarchist or Marxist accusing the other side of "a convincing facade of aggressively-principled anger hiding what's ultimately known as cowardice." yeah, Pruss, we're sure when the worker's revolution comes about, you and the class revolutionary vanguard will be at the front leading the charge to freedom; and not, you know, cowering at the sound of bullets, or sobbing because your best friend got his legs blown off in a civil war you created.

You're so fucking based.

[The Grey Wolf]

I've gone Full. Rockwell.

Race fetishism, class fetishism, all the same thing. Lack of personal responsibility and narrow minded exclusivity.

[George Rockwell]

I've gone Full. Rockwell.

Race fetishism, class fetishism, all the same thing. Lack of personal responsibility and narrow minded exclusivity.

If you bothered to click the link in my signature, George Rockwell does not actually mind black people. Rockwellian National Socialism is a free-market right wing ideology that takes inspiration from German National Socialism and is opposed to Communism and Judaism.

[Korouse]

Race fetishism, class fetishism, all the same thing. Lack of personal responsibility and narrow minded exclusivity.

If you bothered to click the link in my signature, George Rockwell does not actually mind black people. Rockwellian National Socialism is a free-market right wing ideology that takes inspiration from German National Socialism and is opposed to Communism and Judaism.

https://youtu.be/Rli3a3OMJEU?t=53s

"We're racist" sounds like a pretty clear indication that he has a problem with people different from his own race.

[The Grey Wolf]

Race fetishism, class fetishism, all the same thing. Lack of personal responsibility and narrow minded exclusivity.

If you bothered to click the link in my signature, George Rockwell does not actually mind black people. Rockwellian National Socialism is a free-market right wing ideology that takes inspiration from German National Socialism and is opposed to Communism and Judaism.

He wants them all to leave for Africa, and those who don't will be put on reservations. You can dress that up however you like, but it's hard to argue that he "doesn't actually mind them," and without a doubt he thought they were inferior to Europeans. His lines about only wanting to deal with the treasonous Jews is really just him trying to find a way to avoid admitting to racial Anti-Semitism.

[George Rockwell]

If you bothered to click the link in my signature, George Rockwell does not actually mind black people. Rockwellian National Socialism is a free-market right wing ideology that takes inspiration from German National Socialism and is opposed to Communism and Judaism.

He wants them all to leave for Africa, and those who don't will be put on reservations. You can dress that up however you like, but it's hard to argue that he "doesn't actually mind them," and without a doubt he thought they were inferior to Europeans. His lines about only wanting to deal with the treasonous Jews is really just him trying to find a way to avoid admitting to racial Anti-Semitism.

I believe that the Africans would thrive better in Africa, after all we did take them from Africa and use them as slaves. And Anti-Semitism? I know Rockwell was an anti-Semite.

[Korouse]

He wants them all to leave for Africa, and those who don't will be put on reservations. You can dress that up however you like, but it's hard to argue that he "doesn't actually mind them," and without a doubt he thought they were inferior to Europeans. His lines about only wanting to deal with the treasonous Jews is really just him trying to find a way to avoid admitting to racial Anti-Semitism.

I believe that the Africans would thrive better in Africa, after all we did take them from Africa and use them as slaves. And Anti-Semitism? I know Rockwell was an anti-Semite.

An overwhelming majority of African-Americans have never seen Africa with their own eyes, spoke any African tongues, or practiced their cultural/religious beliefs. Their only relation to Africa is the fact that their ancestor they didn't even know was brought here on a boat.

That's ignoring the logistical problem of moving millions of people into ghettos (that's essentially what reservations are now) or nations across a very very large pond. And the absolute moral outrage everybody would raise. It's a pipe dream.

[George Rockwell]

I believe that the Africans would thrive better in Africa, after all we did take them from Africa and use them as slaves. And Anti-Semitism? I know Rockwell was an anti-Semite.

An overwhelming majority of African-Americans have never seen Africa with their own eyes, spoke any African tongues, or practiced their cultural/religious beliefs. Their only relation to Africa is the fact that their ancestor they didn't even know was brought here on a boat.

That's ignoring the logistical problem of moving millions of people into ghettos (that's essentially what reservations are now) or nations across a very very large pond. And the absolute moral outrage everybody would raise. It's a pipe dream.

African Americans should partake in African culture.

And it's not like they don't live in ghettos already :^)