NATION

PASSWORD

What economic system works best for humanity?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What economic system works best for humanity?

Keneysian capitalism
23
14%
Laissez-faire capitalism
37
23%
Anarcho-capitalism
3
2%
Marxism or anarcho-communism
19
12%
Marxism-Leninism
8
5%
Maoism
1
1%
Stainism
4
2%
Market socialism
10
6%
The Nordic Model or other areas of social democracy
49
30%
Social liberalism
7
4%
 
Total votes : 161

User avatar
The Helsen Free State
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: May 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby The Helsen Free State » Sat May 21, 2016 11:09 pm

Nobody likes being told what to do or telling other people what to do. Any system that grants a few individuals the power of coercion is by definition against human nature. Communists see that power in the hands of the robber barons of the market. However, they can't force you to buy their products or services. The government enforces their will at the point of a gun.

Changing up Churchill's quote a bit, capitalism is the worst system of economics, except for all the others. It has problems because it's a system made up of humans, not robots. (And even if it wasn't the most efficient, which I believe it is, it would still be the most moral because it affords the most freedom.)

By the way, if you want to live in a commune, have at it. Nobody's holding you back. Just don't impose that silliness on the rest of us.

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Sat May 21, 2016 11:55 pm

If we knew that everyone would adopt it post-haste.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
The United Colonies of Earth
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9992
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The United Colonies of Earth » Sat May 21, 2016 11:57 pm

Robotism, wherein robots manage the means of production.
Notwithstanding the infinite number of loopholes, of course.
The United Colonies of Earth exists:
to bring about the settlement of all planets not yet inhabited by a sapient species within this Galaxy and Universe by the Human Race, or all members of the species Homo sapiens;
to ensure the observation and protection of the rights of all human beings;
to defend humankind from invasion, catastrophe, fraud and violence;
to represent the interests of humankind to the other governments of the Galaxy;
to facilitate the perpetuation of the unity of human civilization and infrastructure between otherwise self-governing colonies;
and to promote technological advancement and scientific discovery for the perpetuation and expansion of the unity and empowerment of all human beings.
E Stēllīs Lībertās

User avatar
Neu Leonstein
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: Oct 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Neu Leonstein » Sat May 21, 2016 11:58 pm

The United Colonies of Earth wrote:Robotism, wherein robots manage the means of production.
Notwithstanding the infinite number of loopholes, of course.

The problem with robotism is: who owns the robots?
“Every age and generation must be as free to act for itself in all cases as the age and generations which preceded it. The vanity and presumption of governing beyond the grave is the most ridiculous and insolent of all tyrannies. Man has no property in man; neither has any generation a property in the generations which are to follow.”
~ Thomas Paine

Economic Left/Right: 2.25 | Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.33
Time zone: GMT+10 (Melbourne), working full time.

User avatar
The United Colonies of Earth
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9992
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The United Colonies of Earth » Sun May 22, 2016 12:01 am

Neu Leonstein wrote:
The United Colonies of Earth wrote:Robotism, wherein robots manage the means of production.
Notwithstanding the infinite number of loopholes, of course.

The problem with robotism is: who owns the robots?

Why, the wisest and most virtuous people. Who are obviously the ones with the most money :lol2:
I dunno. I was just coming up with some well-tread smartass suggestion.
The United Colonies of Earth exists:
to bring about the settlement of all planets not yet inhabited by a sapient species within this Galaxy and Universe by the Human Race, or all members of the species Homo sapiens;
to ensure the observation and protection of the rights of all human beings;
to defend humankind from invasion, catastrophe, fraud and violence;
to represent the interests of humankind to the other governments of the Galaxy;
to facilitate the perpetuation of the unity of human civilization and infrastructure between otherwise self-governing colonies;
and to promote technological advancement and scientific discovery for the perpetuation and expansion of the unity and empowerment of all human beings.
E Stēllīs Lībertās

User avatar
Grinstead
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 487
Founded: Apr 29, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Grinstead » Sun May 22, 2016 12:01 am

Unregulated free market capitalism.
#ANTIMODAKTION - NS RIGHT WING UPRISING

User avatar
Braecland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 726
Founded: Apr 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Braecland » Sun May 22, 2016 12:03 am

Free market capitalism. Ideally, anarco-capitalism but I can't endorse that because it will not work for hundreds of years after it's implementation.

Obligatory pro/anti stuff:
PRO: Individualism, classical liberalism, free market capitalism, libertarianism, secularism, egalitarianism, meritocracy, Royalism, Euroscepticism, freedom of expression, British values, MLK, Israel, Russia(not in Ukraine), Syria, Kurdistan, YPG, Peshmerga

ANTI: Collectivism, communism, socialism, Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, Trotskyism, syndicalism, anarchism, racism, religious fundamentalism(mainly Islamic), identity politics, social engineering, SJWs, feminism, BLM, Antifa, EU, multiculturalism, mass immigration, Turkey, Saudi-Arabia, Iran, FSA, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Anime

F L A G ╾╋╾ M A K E R

User avatar
Neu Leonstein
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5771
Founded: Oct 23, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Neu Leonstein » Sun May 22, 2016 1:14 am

The United Colonies of Earth wrote:Why, the wisest and most virtuous people. Who are obviously the ones with the most money :lol2:
I dunno. I was just coming up with some well-tread smartass suggestion.

I know... but I was actually kinda serious. Imagine if there were smart robots that could do almost anything, and so the value of labour is almost zero. Basically, that could look a lot like Star Trek (i.e. utopia) or it could look a lot like some sort of dystopia with people starving on the streets and virtually everything being owned by the people who own the robots.

I think every reasonable person would prefer the former - but how do we get there? It's not immediately clear how our current trajectory will avoid the bad case as better and better technologies are developed.
“Every age and generation must be as free to act for itself in all cases as the age and generations which preceded it. The vanity and presumption of governing beyond the grave is the most ridiculous and insolent of all tyrannies. Man has no property in man; neither has any generation a property in the generations which are to follow.”
~ Thomas Paine

Economic Left/Right: 2.25 | Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.33
Time zone: GMT+10 (Melbourne), working full time.

User avatar
Sack Jackpot Winners
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1124
Founded: May 20, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Sack Jackpot Winners » Sun May 22, 2016 1:35 am

How is "social liberalism" an economic system? Or am I missing something?
For the sake of confusion, you can call me SJW
NSG puppet


Your dose of Edgism #22
America just voted for a reality TV star.

What's sad is that was the better choice.

User avatar
Kwaaal
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 193
Founded: Dec 07, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Kwaaal » Sun May 22, 2016 3:02 am

Capitalism.
Republic of Kwaal
Republiek van Kwaal
Greater Mackonia wrote:"Around Blacks hide your tracks!"
Verwoerdian Afrikaner Nationalist.

User avatar
Settrah
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1234
Founded: Apr 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Settrah » Sun May 22, 2016 4:32 am

Sack Jackpot Winners wrote:How is "social liberalism" an economic system? Or am I missing something?


I took it to mean liberal capitalism, or I guess third way triangulation (market economics with an interest in social equality). Thinking about it, it is a bit misleading when worded like it is.
Last edited by Settrah on Sun May 22, 2016 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
I triggered a dog today by accidentally asking it if it was a good boy. Turns out it was a good aromantic demisexual neutrois. I didn't even know.

User avatar
UniversalCommons
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Jan 24, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby UniversalCommons » Sun May 22, 2016 6:35 am

Who owns the robots is a real question. When you can replace labor with capital (machinery), power concentrates into the people who own the robots.

User avatar
The Helsen Free State
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: May 19, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby The Helsen Free State » Sun May 22, 2016 3:16 pm

UniversalCommons wrote:Who owns the robots is a real question. When you can replace labor with capital (machinery), power concentrates into the people who own the robots.


There would be countless people who design, manufacture, program, maintain and work with the robots. While they would provide a massive boost in production, they would also allow anyone who worked on/with the robots to have huge opportunities for advancement. If different companies competed but they had robots instead of labor, products would be stupidly cheap.

So even if you weren't a roboticist, you'd still reap the benefits of that innovation.

User avatar
UniversalCommons
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Jan 24, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby UniversalCommons » Sun May 22, 2016 5:12 pm

That statement unfortunately is untrue. Robots can be used to design other robots-- many white collar tasks can be automated not just the physical processes. About half of the jobs in the United States can be replaced with automation. It is very much like farm automation, or manufacturing. You need less and less people to produce more. It is a fantasy that more jobs will be created. The jobs will be creative in the sense that they are created to keep people busy-- much of the service economy is like this. If you have an automatic burger maker and a robot to take your change, even the service jobs go.

The dream of freedom from labor might happen. It will not just eliminate the workers, it will also eliminate the management because there will be very few people to tell what to do in a future factory. Already, we are seeing the traditional stock trading floor being wiped out as well as commodity exchanges with people on the floor, this is being automated. It is not just low level management it is everything.

There really is no model for this kind of thing happening. We will no longer need most workers and most managers. What do you do when this happens. Capitalism and socialism don't really answer it. Communism tries to but it is a farce at best to believe in post scarcity economics.

It would be nice to be able to do what you want without worrying about basic food, shelter, and housing, without having to do menial labor and other stultifying things. But, because people like social control, this is unlikely to happen.
Last edited by UniversalCommons on Sun May 22, 2016 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Alvalero
Envoy
 
Posts: 235
Founded: Jun 05, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Alvalero » Mon May 23, 2016 1:40 pm

A balance between capitalism and socialism. Benefitted Ireland greatly in the 90s and early 00s, the big problem for us is the fact we are a small island with very little natural resources that depends heavily on our trading partners which made us more susceptible to the global economic crash.
Zander Cerebella
Prince of Aarhus

Duke of New Hyperion(Wintreath)
Autarch of New Hyperion

Former Delegate, Vice Delegate & Statsminister of Balder

User avatar
Tsadokion
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Feb 05, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Tsadokion » Mon May 23, 2016 1:58 pm

Corporatism/class co-operation-ism.

User avatar
USS Donald Trump
Attaché
 
Posts: 98
Founded: Feb 29, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby USS Donald Trump » Mon May 23, 2016 2:38 pm

A mixed market economy with the market having control of production and supply and the government having control of wages.
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."

- Douglas MacArthur

User avatar
Arcturus Novus
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6727
Founded: Dec 03, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Arcturus Novus » Mon May 23, 2016 2:44 pm

Syndicalism/anarcho-communism is best. Just ask Kropotkin.
Arcy (she/her), NS' fourth-favorite transsexual communist!
"I can fix her!" cool, I'm gonna make her worse.
me - my politics - my twitter
Nilokeras wrote:there is of course an interesting thread to pull on [...]
Unfortunately we're all forced to participate in whatever baroque humiliation kink the OP has going on instead.

Previous

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Pale stine, Sutalia

Advertisement

Remove ads