60% of Germans - Islam Does Not Belong In Germany.

[Jumalariik]

So Islamic extremism is caused by the West? I mean Muslims were really persecuted under the Taliban. That's why in Afghanistan in the 2000s Muslims persecuted people for not being Muslim, right?

The West did cause these terrorist groups to spring up, albeit indirectly. And the Taliban was great until it got crazy.

I do think that the Mujahideen did great things in fighting the bolshevists.

Well, I can certainly see your argument and I would not actually disagree. The thing is, I do not believe in situation ethics i.e., I think that just because majority Islamic countries have issues caused by the West does not mean that they are justified in persecuting people who go watch TV. I think that Muslims are intelligent enough people for that.

[Kubra]

I oppose the idea of "Islam Does Not Belong In (insert country)". We are talking about a religion that has a little over a billion followers, with many different sects and it's followers fall between pacifists and violent extremists, just like with any religion. One thing that does breed extremism if people are bigoted toward Muslims. Yes, this is not just the case of Islam. Remember Guy Fawkes, the real one? Well, when the Britain had laws against the Catholic religion, it pushed Catholics, like Guy Fawakes toward extremism.

So Islamic extremism is caused by the West? I mean Muslims were really persecuted under the Taliban. That's why in Afghanistan in the 2000s Muslims persecuted people for not being Muslim, right?

well ya know when the communist party just wants to do a bit of secularizing here and there and mean ol' reagan hands the Mujahideen stinger missiles there ends up not being many of those modern sorts everyone loves

[Jumalariik]

Something being popular doesn't really make it correct or mainstream or orthodox.

Mainstream and orthodox are what's thought of as ok by the people, not by God (SWT). And the Qur'anists may be right.

I mean any sect could theoretically be right, correct? I mean from a cursory reading about Quranism, it seems to be popular among modernists. Are you a modernist personally?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

The West did cause these terrorist groups to spring up, albeit indirectly. And the Taliban was great until it got crazy.

I do think that the Mujahideen did great things in fighting the bolshevists.

Well, I can certainly see your argument and I would not actually disagree. The thing is, I do not believe in situation ethics i.e., I think that just because majority Islamic countries have issues caused by the West does not mean that they are justified in persecuting people who go watch TV. I think that Muslims are intelligent enough people for that.

Ey, we agree on something

[Unioinst Ganja]

I oppose the idea of "Islam Does Not Belong In (insert country)". We are talking about a religion that has a little over a billion followers, with many different sects and it's followers fall between pacifists and violent extremists, just like with any religion. One thing that does breed extremism if people are bigoted toward Muslims. Yes, this is not just the case of Islam. Remember Guy Fawkes, the real one? Well, when the Britain had laws against the Catholic religion, it pushed Catholics, like Guy Fawakes toward extremism.

So Islamic extremism is caused by the West? I mean Muslims were really persecuted under the Taliban. That's why in Afghanistan in the 2000s Muslims persecuted people for not being Muslim, right?

Yes, I would say that west did play a role in the rise of Islamic extremism, and I would say that the 1953 Iranian coup d'état played a large role on how the Middle East views the West.

[Ararat Mountain]

Well, ok. Good, they are willing to actually look at the situation and not fear being called "bigots" or "racist". Good on those 60% of Germans.
And look, toleration and thinking Islam is a German thing is VERY different.
What would the media say if 60% of Iran says Christianity doesn't belong in Iran? Huh, nothing obviously, because in real life that number is probably higher :/

[Jumalariik]

So Islamic extremism is caused by the West? I mean Muslims were really persecuted under the Taliban. That's why in Afghanistan in the 2000s Muslims persecuted people for not being Muslim, right?

well ya know when the communist party just wants to do a bit of secularizing here and there and mean ol' reagan hands the Mujahideen stinger missiles there ends up not being many of those modern sorts everyone loves

Right. I didn't know that if you hand a Muslim a stinger to fight against bolshevists he suddenly confiscates everybody's tv and stops girls from going to school. Nice to know.

[Jumalariik]

I do think that the Mujahideen did great things in fighting the bolshevists.

Well, I can certainly see your argument and I would not actually disagree. The thing is, I do not believe in situation ethics i.e., I think that just because majority Islamic countries have issues caused by the West does not mean that they are justified in persecuting people who go watch TV. I think that Muslims are intelligent enough people for that.

Ey, we agree on something

Just because I disagree with Islam does not mean that I have a lack of respect for Muslims or Islam. Any religion that builds educational institutions and has a tremendous history of scholarship like Islam gets respect from me. I'm pretty sure that Islam had scholastic institutions as well.

On the other hand, I am not so sympathetic to Western left-wingers who think that Islam is compatible with liberal democracy.

[Jumalariik]

So Islamic extremism is caused by the West? I mean Muslims were really persecuted under the Taliban. That's why in Afghanistan in the 2000s Muslims persecuted people for not being Muslim, right?

Yes, I would say that west did play a role in the rise of Islamic extremism, and I would say that the 1953 Iranian coup d'état played a large role on how the Middle East views the West.

Sure, but as I said before, Muslims, like any human beings, have freedom of will. This means that they and only they are accountable for their actions in life.

[United Territories and States]

Ey, we agree on something

Just because I disagree with Islam does not mean that I have a lack of respect for Muslims or Islam. Any religion that builds educational institutions and has a tremendous history of scholarship like Islam gets respect from me. I'm pretty sure that Islam had scholastic institutions as well.

On the other hand, I am not so sympathetic to Western left-wingers who think that Islam is compatible with liberal democracy.

Just aslong as people stay in line.

[Jumalariik]

Just because I disagree with Islam does not mean that I have a lack of respect for Muslims or Islam. Any religion that builds educational institutions and has a tremendous history of scholarship like Islam gets respect from me. I'm pretty sure that Islam had scholastic institutions as well.

On the other hand, I am not so sympathetic to Western left-wingers who think that Islam is compatible with liberal democracy.

Just aslong as people stay in line.

?

[Europe and Oceania]

Well, ok. Good, they are willing to actually look at the situation and not fear being called "bigots" or "racist". Good on those 60% of Germans.
And look, toleration and thinking Islam is a German thing is VERY different.
What would the media say if 60% of Iran says Christianity doesn't belong in Iran? Huh, nothing obviously, because in real life that number is probably higher :/

So, just because the Iranian government are bigots that makes it okay for us to be bigots and discriminate against their religion?

That's like if a radical Christian Terrorist movement would start, and another country would want to ban all Christians.

It would be a complete double standard with the conservatives because if such a movement were to ever happen with Christianity,
that won't change normal peaceful Christians beliefs and would now know how those refugees feel and actually empathize with them.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

well ya know when the communist party just wants to do a bit of secularizing here and there and mean ol' reagan hands the Mujahideen stinger missiles there ends up not being many of those modern sorts everyone loves

Right. I didn't know that if you hand a Muslim a stinger to fight against bolshevists he suddenly confiscates everybody's tv and stops girls from going to school. Nice to know.

That's because America deserted Pakistan/Afghanistan once Russia was taken out, leaving it in a bad shape.

[Unioinst Ganja]

Yes, I would say that west did play a role in the rise of Islamic extremism, and I would say that the 1953 Iranian coup d'état played a large role on how the Middle East views the West.

Sure, but as I said before, Muslims, like any human beings, have freedom of will. This means that they and only they are accountable for their actions in life.

Sure, everyone makes the choice to make roisterer acts, I'm saying that discriminating against an entire group of people just because some members of that group does horrible things is not logical. I'm saying that laws banning someone from practicing a religion will breed more extremism.

[Jumalariik]

Right. I didn't know that if you hand a Muslim a stinger to fight against bolshevists he suddenly confiscates everybody's tv and stops girls from going to school. Nice to know.

That's because America deserted Pakistan/Afghanistan once Russia was taken out, leaving it in a bad shape.

I would never disagree with that. Of course, I still think that everybody is solely responsible for their actions.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Ey, we agree on something

Just because I disagree with Islam does not mean that I have a lack of respect for Muslims or Islam. Any religion that builds educational institutions and has a tremendous history of scholarship like Islam gets respect from me. I'm pretty sure that Islam had scholastic institutions as well.

On the other hand, I am not so sympathetic to Western left-wingers who think that Islam is compatible with liberal democracy.

Oh no, I was just saying we agree on something.

[Jumalariik]

Just because I disagree with Islam does not mean that I have a lack of respect for Muslims or Islam. Any religion that builds educational institutions and has a tremendous history of scholarship like Islam gets respect from me. I'm pretty sure that Islam had scholastic institutions as well.

On the other hand, I am not so sympathetic to Western left-wingers who think that Islam is compatible with liberal democracy.

Oh no, I was just saying we agree on something.

We do.

[Arcturus Novus]

Ok, honestly, does any religion really "belong" in Germany, a secular state? Religion doesn't need to belong anyhwere. It just kinda... permeates everything. And even then, how many Germans were actually polled? Claiming that this represents 60% of all Germans seem extremely untruthful.

[Olerand]

Independence being possible only under anti-Western regimes? Then yes.

As to your solution (have we now agreed that Arabs are not blameless in their own decay?), what reparations? For? The 20 years of colonialism France and Britain excercised in the Levant? Will that solve the problem?

As to the examples, where are the perfect nations on Earth today? Who? We all have problems. Yet Latin America, Asian countries, etc don't have problems of the magnitude the Arab and Muslim worlds have. At what point do your problems become your problems -and not the fault of say the Zionists, and the solutions have to come from you?

I didn't type the Arabs were blameless. In my previous post, I typed about the fault of the Arabs is not being able to defend themselves better and not doing enough to defeat the terrorists. Also it seems that way because that's all the (Western) news will show. In Burma, they are causing a genocide on the Rohigya Muslims. I just read something about West Papua wanting independence from Indonesia because of the oppression they are under. And yes, reparations would help a lot, especially a monetary one. As to your 1st question, a country's independence only involves breaking away from the colonial power, of the host nation. So no, independence isn't just possible in anti-Western nations.

That's their only fault? Being incapable of actually building a State, let alone a nation, or a functioning economy, or a civil society, that's nothing? The only problem was that they couldn't defend themselves form the Islamic State?

What of those other conflicts? How do they relate to the Arabo-Islamic worlds' inabilities to build functioning nation-States, civil societies etc.?

And yet the most successful post-colonial states didn't "break away" from their previous colonial masters, not in the way that the now failed Arab States did.

[Jumalariik]

Sure, but as I said before, Muslims, like any human beings, have freedom of will. This means that they and only they are accountable for their actions in life.

Sure, everyone makes the choice to make roisterer acts, I'm saying that discriminating against an entire group of people just because some members of that group does horrible things is not logical. I'm saying that laws banning someone from practicing a religion will breed more extremism.

It's not about discriminating on a group of people but about discriminating between ideologies. I don't think that Muslims should be banned from any nation, I do think that Islam is not compatible with Western democratic culture though. In a way, neither is Christianity. i.e., an ideology that asks total investment from a believer is not a democratic one.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Oh no, I was just saying we agree on something.

We do.

Yeah I know.

[Olerand]

Independence being possible only under anti-Western regimes? Then yes.

As to your solution (have we now agreed that Arabs are not blameless in their own decay?), what reparations? For? The 20 years of colonialism France and Britain excercised in the Levant? Will that solve the problem?

As to the examples, where are the perfect nations on Earth today? Who? We all have problems. Yet Latin America, Asian countries, etc don't have problems of the magnitude the Arab and Muslim worlds have. At what point do your problems become your problems -and not the fault of say the Zionists, and the solutions have to come from you?

I think both sides shoulder blame. It's not right to go to either extreme and just heap all the blame on one side.

I agree. No one is blameless, but the popular idea that Arabs/Muslims are just victims of the global Ziono-Western whatever conspiracy is a little much.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

I didn't type the Arabs were blameless. In my previous post, I typed about the fault of the Arabs is not being able to defend themselves better and not doing enough to defeat the terrorists. Also it seems that way because that's all the (Western) news will show. In Burma, they are causing a genocide on the Rohigya Muslims. I just read something about West Papua wanting independence from Indonesia because of the oppression they are under. And yes, reparations would help a lot, especially a monetary one. As to your 1st question, a country's independence only involves breaking away from the colonial power, of the host nation. So no, independence isn't just possible in anti-Western nations.

That's their only fault? Being incapable of actually building a State, let alone a nation, or a functioning economy, or a civil society, that's nothing? The only problem was that they couldn't defend themselves form the Islamic State?

What of those other conflicts? How do they relate to the Arabo-Islamic worlds' inabilities to build functioning nation-States, civil societies etc.?

And yet the most successful post-colonial states didn't "break away" from their previous colonial masters, not in the way that the now failed Arab States did.

1st part: They could and did. It lasted until the West messed up everything. And their other fault is working with the West.
2nd part: In many Afrikan countries there's bad stuff happening, and they went through the same stuff the ME did.

[United Territories and States]

Sure, everyone makes the choice to make roisterer acts, I'm saying that discriminating against an entire group of people just because some members of that group does horrible things is not logical. I'm saying that laws banning someone from practicing a religion will breed more extremism.

It's not about discriminating on a group of people but about discriminating between ideologies. I don't think that Muslims should be banned from any nation, I do think that Islam is not compatible with Western democratic culture though. In a way, neither is Christianity. i.e., an ideology that asks total investment from a believer is not a democratic one.

I'm not even sure if the West is democratic, it's more of a republican.

[Olerand]

And seriously fuck all you people who would throw these refugees to the wolves. You bastards did the same thing to us Jews during WWII. We were trying to escape Europe, we tried seeking refuge in countries by means of boat. And you kept sending us back. Especially the children. Why? Because they were accused of hiding German spies and saboteurs. I seriously hope one say you guys become refugees, so that when you are desperately seeking help, no one helps you. The world has shown that it has not learned its lessons from the past.

Who's throwing them to the wolves? The refugee camps are not pretty or comfortable, but they're not war zones either. If you think otherwise, you should let the host countries know.