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Spanish general election, 2016: Round 2

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which party would you vote/are you planning to vote?

PP (Conservative, right-wing)
15
13%
PSOE (Social-democrat, centre-left)
20
17%
Podemos (Socialist, left-wing)
39
33%
Ciudadanos (Social-liberal, centre-right)
23
19%
IU-UP (Eurocommunist, left-wing)
5
4%
Centre-left/Left-wing Nationalists
0
No votes
Centre-right/Right-wing Nationalists
9
8%
No party/Won't vote/Other
7
6%
 
Total votes : 118

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Martean
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Spanish general election, 2016: Round 2

Postby Martean » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:48 pm

The cortes (parliament + senate) will be dissolved in a couple of days (most surely April 27th or May the 2nd), and new elections will be held on June, 26th. This has happened because no party has been able to form a coalition government and now we will head to the polls... again!

PP (28.7%//123 seats) [Liberal conservatism]
Translated as ''People's Party'', despite gaining the most votes, it was clear since the very day we voted that Mariano Rajoy was not going to be PM again. His party lost 16 points and 63 seats since 2011, and even if they gathered support from Ciudadanos, they would only amount to 163 of the 176 seats needed for a majority. No other party was willing to offer them support.

PSOE (22.0%//90 seats) [Social-democracy]
Translated as 'Spanisg Socialist Workers' Party', the typical left-of-centre social-democrat party in Europe. After having their worst result since 1977 in 2011, this election they were able, somehow, of losing another 7 points and having their worst result since the 1930's, they even managed to have a better result in the 1936 general election, that eventually led to the civil war. However, they remained the second largest party and the King ordered them to try to form a government.

In their political ''convention'', they decided to rule out any coalition with the PP, and also with the nationalists or regionalists, which emant that the only way for Pedro Sanchez to reach the government was if Podemos and Ciudadanos both agreed to form a coalition. After signing an agreement only with Ciudadanos and then asking Podemos for them to support it, but not offering neither changes in the PSOE-C's agreement, nor cabinet positions, Podemos decided to submit it to an internal referendum.

Podemos (20.7%//69 seats) [left-wing]
'Podemos' means 'We can', and since the 2014 European election, they've been going up election after election. In those elections they had a surprise result and came in 4th with 8% of the vote and 5 MEP's; in the 2015 regional elections they took 14% of the vote and stunned analysts after Podemos-supported parties managed to win or at least form coalition governments in many city councils, such as Madrid, Barcelona, Cádiz, A Coruña... etc. Indeed, Podemos or podemos-aligned parties have now rule the city councils of around 10 million Spaniards, more than any other party, and fuelled. They were expected to have quite a dissapointing showing in the December elections, but again managed to beat expectations and took in more than 20% of the vote, and beating the socialists in 8 of the 17 regions.

They pushed for a government that included PSOE, Podemos and IU, with Pedro Sánchez (PSOE) as president, and 7 ministeries for the socialists, 6 for them and 1 for IU, with a programme that included proposals from PSOE and Podemos-IU. To do this they needed the support or abstention of some nationalists, and although they gave signals that they could support this government, the PSOE voted to deny support from the nationalists. After the PSOE-C's agreement, they started to fall in the polls as they were successfully portrayed as the ones that prevented a government to form, but after some errors commited by the PSOE and Ciudadanos, which led many spaniards to think that they had signed that agreement just to rule out Podemos and force new elections without being blamed, support for the PSOE-C's pact started to go down and Podemos has, again, piped the socialists in many polls and they are exploring an agreement with IU (United Left) that could take around 25% of the vote

Ciudadanos (13.9%//40 seats) [social liberalism]
It was quite a tough night for them December the 20th, but they initially played quite well after allingning themselves with the PSOE, rather than the PP (which has become quite a toxic party). However, as I've explained before, this agreement is now seen badly by most spaniards, with a notable exception: Ciudadanos voters, which seem quite mobilized and could have some gains in the June, 26th elections. As long as they don't lose some 6 points (again) in the round-up.

IU (3.7%//2 seats) [eurocommunism, left-wing]
Despite gaining almost a million votes, they only got 2 seats as we don't have a proportional seat-allocation method. They are exploring a coalition with Podemos that could definetely allow a left-wing government (with, most surely, Pablo Iglesias or another Podemos politican as PM). After the election they have sky-rocketed in some polls, reaching almost 8%, but they are right now somewhere near 6%.


After a historic election result, in which the two-party system that had dominated Spain since 1977 suffered a great defeat, political parties had no idea of how to handle the negotiations. Finnally, after 4 months without government, time has run out for them and new elections will be automatically held on June, 26th.

The negotiations were doomed from the start, on one hand, the left had been thinking for months they had no chances of forming a government whatsoever, as pre-election polls put the PP-C's bloc way ahead, with some polls giving them 200 seats (176 needed for a majority). When the elections came, Podemos had a surprisingly good result, over 20%, and Ciudadanos plummeted to 14%, although polls had been showing them neck-and-nech with the PSOE, and way ahead Podemos.

However, this late surge was not enough for Podemos, and not only they weren't able to pip the socialists, but also the left wasn't able to win a majority (gaining 161 seats); but neither was the left, with 163


Opinion polling:

Image
Last edited by Martean on Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03
Spanish, communist
Pro: Democracy, Nationalized economy, socialism, LGTB Rights, Free Speech, Atheism, Inmigration, Direct Democracy
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Major-Tom
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Ex-Nation

Postby Major-Tom » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:50 pm

Write in someone, Spanish politics is fucked, but at least you guys don't have Franco.

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The Liberated Territories
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Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:59 pm

p-lib or smok weed erreday
Left Wing Market Anarchism

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Valaran
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Postby Valaran » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:13 pm

Are we sure it will be dissolved then? I mean, it seems likely given the deadlock, but still.
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Vesigothia
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Postby Vesigothia » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:15 pm

Anything but the gilipollas from Potemos.

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Dinake
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Postby Dinake » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:28 pm

The Carlists are still a party, albeit a minor one, right?
Then them.
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Ashworth-Attwater
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Postby Ashworth-Attwater » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:34 pm

I'm rooting for Podemos.

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:41 pm

I'm still rooting for Ciudadanos.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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MERIZoC
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:02 pm

Still pulling for Podemos, though I fully expect another hung parliament.

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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:24 pm

Cuidadanos. Podemos are nothing more than a bunch of idealistic university students who want to cripple Spain further.
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MERIZoC
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:30 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:Cuidadanos. Podemos are nothing more than a bunch of idealistic university students who want to cripple Spain further.

Drat, the plot has been discovered.

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Tamsien
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Postby Tamsien » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:32 pm

Ciudadanos or Podemos, personally.
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MERIZoC
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:33 pm

Question for any Spaniards who know what they're talking about:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/a ... government

I was just reading this article, and noticed a passage.

After months of stagnation there was a last-minute flurry of hope after the so-called Prado accord was presented on Tuesday by the progressive green party Compromís. The accord emulates the cross-party coalition that governs the Valencia region.

The group put forward 30 proposals that would have allowed Sánchez to be sworn in as president of a left coalition of independents. The government would then submit to a vote of confidence.

Sánchez’s PSOE agreed to 27 of the 30 proposals, but this was not good enough for Podemos. “We’ve made enough concessions already,” said the leader of Podemos, Pablo Iglesias, adding that PSOE’s counter-offer amounted to a no. “We are going to win this election and we will offer our hand to PSOE and progressive forces.”

Ciudadanos, for its part, said it did not want to join a government based on the radical Compromís proposals, which cover issues from employment law to evictions. Referring to PSOE’s three-page document, the leader of Ciudadanos, Albert Rivera, said: “Three pages on governing Spain for four years between six different parties. It’s not even worth looking at.”


I missed this news, but I presume people with access to Spanish sources saw it. What exactly was this proposal, and what did PSOE reject?

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:47 pm

Adelante, Podemos! Death to the two-party system! :3
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I am:
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Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Rio Cana
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Postby Rio Cana » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:57 pm

Seems they really need to overhaul there political system since its not very efficient. You know the answer to the current problem was easy. No coalition no getting paid. And make them pay for any expenses incurred during this fiasco.
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Socialist Assembly Marxists
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Postby Socialist Assembly Marxists » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:04 pm

Rio Cana wrote:Seems they really need to overhaul there political system since its not very efficient. You know the answer to the current problem was easy. No coalition no getting paid. And make them pay for any expenses incurred during this fiasco.

Rather reactionary and undemocratic of you.

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:06 pm

Liriena wrote:Adelante, Podemos! Death to the two-party system! :3

It already died in Spain a long time ago.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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Calimera II
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:07 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:Cuidadanos. Podemos are nothing more than a bunch of idealistic university students who want to cripple Spain further.

And Ciudadanos is a recycled version of PP ...

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MERIZoC
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:09 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Liriena wrote:Adelante, Podemos! Death to the two-party system! :3

It already died in Spain a long time ago.

If by a long time you mean 5 months...

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Calimera II
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:10 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Liriena wrote:Adelante, Podemos! Death to the two-party system! :3

It already died in Spain a long time ago.

When? If you ask a Spanish person they will say you are wrong.

¡Avanti, Podemos!

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:12 pm

Calimera II wrote:
Geilinor wrote:It already died in Spain a long time ago.

When? If you ask a Spanish person they will say you are wrong.

¡Avanti, Podemos!

Small and regional parties have been represented for a while.
Member of the Free Democratic Party. Not left. Not right. Forward.
Economic Left/Right: -1.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.41

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MERIZoC
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:13 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Calimera II wrote:When? If you ask a Spanish person they will say you are wrong.

¡Avanti, Podemos!

Small and regional parties have been represented for a while.

Ok? That doesn't mean they didn't have a two party system lol.

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:13 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Calimera II wrote:When? If you ask a Spanish person they will say you are wrong.

¡Avanti, Podemos!

Small and regional parties have been represented for a while.

Yes, but much of the political power at a national level has been held by either PP or PSOE. So... death to that!
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:14 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Calimera II wrote:When? If you ask a Spanish person they will say you are wrong.

¡Avanti, Podemos!

Small and regional parties have been represented for a while.

So? Two big parties dominated politics.

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Martean
Minister
 
Posts: 2017
Founded: Aug 08, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Martean » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:30 pm

Merizoc wrote:Question for any Spaniards who know what they're talking about:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/a ... government

I was just reading this article, and noticed a passage.

After months of stagnation there was a last-minute flurry of hope after the so-called Prado accord was presented on Tuesday by the progressive green party Compromís. The accord emulates the cross-party coalition that governs the Valencia region.

The group put forward 30 proposals that would have allowed Sánchez to be sworn in as president of a left coalition of independents. The government would then submit to a vote of confidence.

Sánchez’s PSOE agreed to 27 of the 30 proposals, but this was not good enough for Podemos. “We’ve made enough concessions already,” said the leader of Podemos, Pablo Iglesias, adding that PSOE’s counter-offer amounted to a no. “We are going to win this election and we will offer our hand to PSOE and progressive forces.”

Ciudadanos, for its part, said it did not want to join a government based on the radical Compromís proposals, which cover issues from employment law to evictions. Referring to PSOE’s three-page document, the leader of Ciudadanos, Albert Rivera, said: “Three pages on governing Spain for four years between six different parties. It’s not even worth looking at.”


I missed this news, but I presume people with access to Spanish sources saw it. What exactly was this proposal, and what did PSOE reject?


It rejected the 3 "biggest" proposals (the constitution amendment, something about not doing all the deficit reduction the EU asked us for, and other). Pedro Sanchez also asked Podemos to support a PSOE-only government, and approve the 2016,2017 (and I think also 2018) budgets, with no discussion.

Even Perez-Tapias, which presented to the PSOE primaries and took 10% of the vote and has been a PSOE membee for decades critiziced his bosses' proposal.
Compass:
Left/Right: -9.00
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03
Spanish, communist
Pro: Democracy, Nationalized economy, socialism, LGTB Rights, Free Speech, Atheism, Inmigration, Direct Democracy
Anti: Dictatorship, Fascism, Social-democracy, Social Liberalism, Neoliberalism, Nationalism, Racism, Xenophobia, Homophobia.
''When you have an imaginary friend, you're crazy, but when many people have the same imaginary friend, it's called religion''

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