Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread ٢

[North Arkana]

If they did they wouldn't dedicate so much energy towards insulting it.

Not really. For starters, no such thing as "true Islam" objectivally exists - rather thousands upon thousand of rivalling versions inside the Islamic world itself.

Secondly, the notion that "those who don't agree with XX's self-portrayal don't understand it" NEVER works like that. Ever. That's like saying "Those who don't like Socialism don't understand it" or "those who don't agree with American foreign policy don't understand it" etc.

And lastly, people usually base their judgement of a particular thing - no matter if it's a group of people, an idea, a company - on the visible effects they attribute to it on daily life.
In the case of Islam, those effects include the observation of neverending strife inside the Islamic world, migration movements out of it, and increasing tensions in Western societies with a high percentage of Muslims, and an obscene amount of intolerance and thin-skinnedness against all things that are considering "un-islamic".
What "true Islam" may or may not be in the eyes of its followers is not that relevant in that regard.

Careful there, that's "logic". /s

[Jochizyd Republic]

If they did they wouldn't dedicate so much energy towards insulting it.

Not really. For starters, no such thing as "true Islam" objectivally exists - rather thousands upon thousand of rivalling versions inside the Islamic world itself.

Secondly, the notion that "those who don't agree with XX's self-portrayal don't understand it" NEVER works like that. Ever. That's like saying "Those who don't like Socialism don't understand it" or "those who don't agree with American foreign policy don't understand it" etc.

And lastly, people usually base their judgement of a particular thing - no matter if it's a group of people, an idea, a company - on the visible effects they attribute to it on daily life.
In the case of Islam, those effects include the observation of neverending strife inside the Islamic world, migration movements out of it, and increasing tensions in Western societies with a high percentage of Muslims, and an obscene amount of intolerance and thin-skinnedness against all things that are considering "un-islamic".
What "true Islam" may or may not be in the eyes of its followers is not that relevant in that regard.

There are very few critics of Islam including those popular in the media and individuals that I've met that make points beyond " SURAH 2:191!!! YOUR PROPHET IS A PEDORAPIST MURDERER BARBARIAN PEDOPHILE XDDDDDD!1! SHARIA LAWWW!! REMOVE KEBAB!! OH, YOU DISAGREE WITH ME? LIBERAL FGT LOL!!"

Very few. Like almost none. There are some that I've met that understand how Shari’ah Works, What Muhammad (SAW) was like etc. and reject it because of big moral grey areas they can't handle. So It's possible. But it's not mainstream by any means.
Not everyone understands or even acknowledges the diversity of thought in Islam like you do. They usually just think that the terrorists have it right and everyone else is a fake muslim or secretly one of them.

And the strife in the Muslim world is usually no different than what happens in most third world countries.
I'm not saying there aren't problems with massive amounts of Muslims. And that there aren't aspects in the Tradition that can be very difficult for people to accept.

But I never see critics of Islam or Liberal "allies" accept that "there is a large minority of bad in Islam now. But the rest is harmless although not something I agree with."

[Jochizyd Republic]

Not really. For starters, no such thing as "true Islam" objectivally exists - rather thousands upon thousand of rivalling versions inside the Islamic world itself.

Secondly, the notion that "those who don't agree with XX's self-portrayal don't understand it" NEVER works like that. Ever. That's like saying "Those who don't like Socialism don't understand it" or "those who don't agree with American foreign policy don't understand it" etc.

And lastly, people usually base their judgement of a particular thing - no matter if it's a group of people, an idea, a company - on the visible effects they attribute to it on daily life.
In the case of Islam, those effects include the observation of neverending strife inside the Islamic world, migration movements out of it, and increasing tensions in Western societies with a high percentage of Muslims, and an obscene amount of intolerance and thin-skinnedness against all things that are considering "un-islamic".
What "true Islam" may or may not be in the eyes of its followers is not that relevant in that regard.

Careful there, that's "logic". /s

Calling me stupid.

Nice. When you disagree with Anti Islamics, That's usually what happens. It's almost as if you guys are just as narrow minded as any terrorist.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Salaam aleikum, I am back.

And I repent for what I have done since May, I strolled down the wrong path, I get back on my Islamic path.

Wa Aleykum Salaam.

No worries.

[North Arkana]

Careful there, that's "logic". /s

Calling me stupid.

Nice. When you disagree with Anti Islamics, That's usually what happens. It's almost as if you guys are just as narrow minded as any terrorist.

Don't worry, I have the same opinion when it comes to all other religions as well as the militant atheists. Not that it matters. To you I'm probably just another one of the unclean masses destined for the hellfire because I won't renounce my sinful ways.

And honestly, when it comes to the way you responded to someone basically saying, "TL;DR the Islamic world has bad PR", I think I can stand to say the expected response was about pretty much what happened, a rather knee-jerk, "we can do no wrong", "no true Scotsman", type response.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Calling me stupid.

Nice. When you disagree with Anti Islamics, That's usually what happens. It's almost as if you guys are just as narrow minded as any terrorist.

Don't worry, I have the same opinion when it comes to all other religions as well as the militant atheists. Not that it matters. To you I'm probably just another one of the unclean masses destined for the hellfire because I won't renounce my sinful ways.

Whew. For a minute there, I thought I would have to take you seriously. The amount of teen angst is off the charts.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Calling me stupid.

Nice. When you disagree with Anti Islamics, That's usually what happens. It's almost as if you guys are just as narrow minded as any terrorist.

Don't worry, I have the same opinion when it comes to all other religions as well as the militant atheists. Not that it matters. To you I'm probably just another one of the unclean masses destined for the hellfire because I won't renounce my sinful ways.

And honestly, when it comes to the way you responded to someone basically saying, "TL;DR the Islamic world has bad PR", I think I can stand to say the expected response was about pretty much what happened, a rather knee-jerk, "we can do no wrong", "no true Scotsman", type response.

I explicitly said that there's extreme problems in the Islamic community today. What's wrong with you?

[North Arkana]

Don't worry, I have the same opinion when it comes to all other religions as well as the militant atheists. Not that it matters. To you I'm probably just another one of the unclean masses destined for the hellfire because I won't renounce my sinful ways.

Whew. For a minute there, I thought I would have to take you seriously. The amount of teen angst is off the charts.

No, I'm happily employed in a line of work which requires major critical thinking. I actually need to end my breakfast now and get going.

I'll just quickly point out you made the same exact kind of response you accused me of making earlier.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Whew. For a minute there, I thought I would have to take you seriously. The amount of teen angst is off the charts.

No, I'm happily employed in a line of work which requires major critical thinking. I actually need to end my breakfast now and get going.

I'll just quickly point out you made the same exact kind of response you accused me of making earlier.

Yes. I'm sure the Blog is a very good one.

What response? I never accused you of anything before this.

[North Arkana]

No, I'm happily employed in a line of work which requires major critical thinking. I actually need to end my breakfast now and get going.

I'll just quickly point out you made the same exact kind of response you accused me of making earlier.

Yes. I'm sure the Blog is a very good one.

What response? I never accused you of anything before this.

I'm a bit too busy handling reports and personnel management to run a blog

And really, you don't see how dismissing someone as an angsty teenager is comparable to not expecting an engaging answer to a question based upon the manner in which past matters of a similar type have been handled? Scratch that, the former is actually worse than the latter.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Yes. I'm sure the Blog is a very good one.

What response? I never accused you of anything before this.

I'm a bit too busy handling reports and personnel management to run a blog

And really, you don't see how dismissing someone as an angsty teenager is comparable to not expecting an engaging answer to a question based upon the manner in which past matters of a similar type have been handled? Scratch that, the former is actually worse than the latter.

You didn't ask an engaging question. I don't even think you asked a question.

You just called me stupid after I gave an answer, and then accused me of saying something I never said after I pointed out that you just called me stupid.

[Hindia Belanda]

Salam guys,

I think the time is due for me to post on the second Islam thread. How do you reconcile Islam with the theory of evolution and the problem of evil? If Adam was supposed to be the first man, then what was his species? Homo Sapiens? Neanderthal? Does it matter to you personally?

It also makes me wonder how evil can exist when there is a benevolent and omnipotent God? This year isn't helping at all, with all the recent violence that keeps on coming. What I'm asking is how do you reconcile your religion with those?

[Germanic Scyths]

Salam guys,

I think the time is due for me to post on the second Islam thread. How do you reconcile Islam with the theory of evolution and the problem of evil? If Adam was supposed to be the first man, then what was his species? Homo Sapiens? Neanderthal? Does it matter to you personally?

It also makes me wonder how evil can exist when there is a benevolent and omnipotent God? This year isn't helping at all, with all the recent violence that keeps on coming. What I'm asking is how do you reconcile your religion with those?

I personally believe that evil is in the world due to not listening to God's commands, and God allows it to happen as this life is temporarily whilst Heaven and Hell are eternal.

[North Arkana]

I'm a bit too busy handling reports and personnel management to run a blog

And really, you don't see how dismissing someone as an angsty teenager is comparable to not expecting an engaging answer to a question based upon the manner in which past matters of a similar type have been handled? Scratch that, the former is actually worse than the latter.

You didn't ask an engaging question. I don't even think you asked a question.

You just called me stupid after I gave an answer, and then accused me of saying something I never said after I pointed out that you just called me stupid.

Now you're just purposely obfuscating what the point is.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Salam guys,

I think the time is due for me to post on the second Islam thread. How do you reconcile Islam with the theory of evolution and the problem of evil? If Adam was supposed to be the first man, then what was his species? Homo Sapiens? Neanderthal? Does it matter to you personally?

It also makes me wonder how evil can exist when there is a benevolent and omnipotent God? This year isn't helping at all, with all the recent violence that keeps on coming. What I'm asking is how do you reconcile your religion with those?

Salam.
Well Humans have free will, so we can do whatever we want, which is why so many people don't listen to God (SWT) and do whatever. Also - and this is paraphrasing - Allah (SWT) had the power to make us 1 nation, but he wanted to test us to see which would be on the straight way. And in regards to evolution - again, paraphrasing - Allah (SWT) tells us in the Holy Qur'an that He created every living creature from/in water, so that's religious proof of evolution right there.
And Germanic Scythes, Assalamu 'Alaikum wa RaHmatullahi wa Barakatihuh! ^w^

[Napkiraly]

Salam guys,

I think the time is due for me to post on the second Islam thread. How do you reconcile Islam with the theory of evolution and the problem of evil? If Adam was supposed to be the first man, then what was his species? Homo Sapiens? Neanderthal? Does it matter to you personally?

It also makes me wonder how evil can exist when there is a benevolent and omnipotent God? This year isn't helping at all, with all the recent violence that keeps on coming. What I'm asking is how do you reconcile your religion with those?

Salam.
Well Humans have free will, so we can do whatever we want, which is why so many people don't listen to God (SWT) and do whatever. Also - and this is paraphrasing - Allah (SWT) had the power to make us 1 nation, but he wanted to test us to see which would be on the straight way. And in regards to evolution - again, paraphrasing - Allah (SWT) tells us in the Holy Qur'an that He created every living creature from/in water, so that's religious proof of evolution right there.

It also says that man is created from clay, earth, and sand which is quite false.

Also, saying that creatures are made out of water =/= prove that they knew about evolution since that's not what evolution is.

[Kubumba Tribe]

Salam.
Well Humans have free will, so we can do whatever we want, which is why so many people don't listen to God (SWT) and do whatever. Also - and this is paraphrasing - Allah (SWT) had the power to make us 1 nation, but he wanted to test us to see which would be on the straight way. And in regards to evolution - again, paraphrasing - Allah (SWT) tells us in the Holy Qur'an that He created every living creature from/in water, so that's religious proof of evolution right there.

It also says that man is created from clay, earth, and sand which is quite false.

Also, saying that creatures are made out of water =/= prove that they knew about evolution since that's not what evolution is.

Yeah, take eeverything the Holy Qur'an says literally.

[United Territories and States]

Salam.
Well Humans have free will, so we can do whatever we want, which is why so many people don't listen to God (SWT) and do whatever. Also - and this is paraphrasing - Allah (SWT) had the power to make us 1 nation, but he wanted to test us to see which would be on the straight way. And in regards to evolution - again, paraphrasing - Allah (SWT) tells us in the Holy Qur'an that He created every living creature from/in water, so that's religious proof of evolution right there.

It also says that man is created from clay, earth, and sand which is quite false.


Also, saying that creatures are made out of water =/= prove that they knew about evolution since that's not what evolution is.

You're taking that too literally.

[Jochizyd Republic]

You didn't ask an engaging question. I don't even think you asked a question.

You just called me stupid after I gave an answer, and then accused me of saying something I never said after I pointed out that you just called me stupid.

Now you're just purposely obfuscating what the point is.

That you called me stupid and are acting like a pretensious redditor in order to seem like a god of logic or something.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Salam guys,

I think the time is due for me to post on the second Islam thread. How do you reconcile Islam with the theory of evolution and the problem of evil? If Adam was supposed to be the first man, then what was his species? Homo Sapiens? Neanderthal? Does it matter to you personally?

It also makes me wonder how evil can exist when there is a benevolent and omnipotent God? This year isn't helping at all, with all the recent violence that keeps on coming. What I'm asking is how do you reconcile your religion with those?

The Qur'an implies that Adam and Eve were created in heaven before they were sent to earth. (2:30) so it's possible they were the first Humans in a metaphysical sense (with human souls, capabilities, spiritual sensibilities etc)

Also 6:133 says that we (humanity) were "created from the seed of another clan".

It's ambiguous. But in the Qur'an there are ambiguous prrofs for it. And nothing that would really go against it. In the Sunnah too, theres not much that could "disprove" the theory.

As for the last question, I don't know.

Allahu Alim.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

>awkward silence<

[Napkiraly]

It also says that man is created from clay, earth, and sand which is quite false.

Also, saying that creatures are made out of water =/= prove that they knew about evolution since that's not what evolution is.

Yeah, take eeverything the Holy Qur'an says literally.

Give me rulings that it's a metaphor. I'll wait.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Yeah, take eeverything the Holy Qur'an says literally.

Give me rulings that it's a metaphor. I'll wait.

http://www.ldolphin.org/islamcreat.html

It's pretty obvious that it's a metaphor.

[Napkiraly]

Give me rulings that it's a metaphor. I'll wait.

http://www.ldolphin.org/islamcreat.html

It's pretty obvious that it's a metaphor.

Only via standard religious backtracking as soon as science started filling in the gaps. I'm talking preferably from before the 19th century. Because that's what happens time and time again. Science makes discoveries that prove certain claims in religious texts to be wrong or down right impossible and then it magically becomes nothing more than a metaphor.

If people could understand the concept of evolution in the 19th century, then they could have in the 7th especially if the details were believed to be divinely revealed.

[Kubumba Tribe]

http://www.ldolphin.org/islamcreat.html

It's pretty obvious that it's a metaphor.

If people could understand the concept of evolution in the 19th century, then they could have in the 7th especially if the details were believed to be divinely revealed.