The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Hurdegaryp]

By throwing away everything that the 'establishment' did change over the past sixty years. That's not progress. Progress is slow and steady.

Slow and steady ultimately doesn't win the race in real life.

Clearly you never heard of evolution.

[Neu Leonstein]

The Remain campaign did not manage to explain to those people why that situation is better than what the Leave campaign were promising.

I don't think you're being fair. If one side is outright lying, there is no amount of explaining the other side can do to make their proposal sound better while it still sticks to the facts. So they did what one might think is reasonable: they attacked the lies. Except then that became widely accepted as being "scaremongering" and so then Cameron was being attacked for it.

Was there a better way of doing it? Probably, yeah. Cameron should never have been involved in it to start with, given how unpopular he is and how many people likely voted against him rather than for Brexit. But it also just exposed a fundamental problem we have in modern democracies: once populists genuinely stop caring about truth, uninformed voters are liable to flock to them in masses. We see it with Brexit, with Trump, with the AfD in Germany and so on.

[Pandect]

Slow and steady ultimately doesn't win the race in real life.

Clearly you never heard of evolution.

Wouldn't that be order.. Mr Promoter-of-Chaos?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

By throwing away everything that the 'establishment' did change over the past sixty years. That's not progress. Progress is slow and steady.

Slow and steady ultimately doesn't win the race in real life.

To be fair, we've been in this earth for thousands of years now.

The concept of human rights took us up to maybe 300-400 years ago to come up with them.

Slow and steady progress is the way we do things as human beings. You might want to see things happening in real-time, but they generally take years to accomplish, if not generations.

[Imperializt Russia]

Quebec sovereigntists are now whining about needing a "clear majority" in a referendum.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/brexit-quebec-sovereignty-1.3651265

...
But...

Quebec lost that referendum anyway.

[Conscentia]

They're predicting as much as a 40% slide by October.
Depending on what the UK does, it might be accurate, or not.

[desire to see it all burn intensifies]

I can sympathise with that. Thing is though, I live here... I'd rather not burn down my house while I'm still in it.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

By throwing away everything that the 'establishment' did change over the past sixty years. That's not progress. Progress is slow and steady.

Slow and steady ultimately doesn't win the race in real life.

Yes, it does. Slow and steady does a better job than quick and violent, at least.

By throwing away everything that the 'establishment' did change over the past sixty years. That's not progress. Progress is slow and steady.

er... slow and steady got us from steam engines to slightly more efficient steam engines: up to a point of rather diminishing returns. Thankfully someone quickly came up with the idea of the combustion engine. And then someone else quickly came up with the jet engine.

Well, how long did it take to get from steam engines to combustion engines and jet engines? Anyway, we're not talking about technological progress here, but political progress. The French Revolution didn't do jack for republican states in Europe. It was the slow liberalisation that followed. Feudalism wasn't broken up by violent revolution, but by slow-working market forces. Eventually, Reaganomics didn't kill the Soviet Union, but slow economic reform. The EU wasn't built in a day, rather it evolved. You can't ask problems to change overnight. It takes dedicated hard work and patience, lest the whole idea explodes in your face.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The old people have voted against.
In a few years they are dead.
THe youth voted REMAIN. Now the old people have voted for the young.
BEAUTIFUL DEMOCRACY.
With all the lies of Farage and Johnson

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

No, but I also don't feel bad about the UK being told to behave by the EU, as patronizing as that sounds, if they go crying back for trade deals, they deserve it.

[Imperializt Russia]

[desire to see it all burn intensifies]

I can sympathise with that. Thing is though, I live here... I'd rather not burn down my house while I'm still in it.

I live here too, y'know.

[Conserative Morality]

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

If it was going to be any age, it would be 65+. You know, the only age bracket that voted majority leave.

[Novus America]

Slow and steady ultimately doesn't win the race in real life.

Clearly you never heard of evolution.

Evolution requires adaptation. Requires change. But the EU is not adapting at all. It is just spinning its wheels.

When the world changes the species that does not change with it goes extinct.

[Hurdegaryp]

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

If it was going to be any age, it would be 65+. You know, the only age bracket that voted majority leave.

So the trick is to wait until the percentage of geriatric citizens in a population is large enough to make sure everyone else gets fucked hard by their old age conservatism.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

If it was going to be any age, it would be 65+. You know, the only age bracket that voted majority leave.

They'll soon realize they voted against their own economic interests.

Or maybe they won't, and they'll keep blaming others because they can't afford what they used to anymore.

[Immoren]

...

I don't even know how to respond to such blatant racism and horrid abuse of the English language.

What's this I'm reading then? I think you did know how to respond, it just wasn't a very good response. Poor show.

I'm not racist, I'm an equal-opportunities elitist.

A:that's racist!
B:I am not racist. I hate everyone equally.
A:so you're quirky racist.

[Quaxoglia]

The old people have voted against.
In a few years they are dead.
THe youth voted REMAIN. Now the old people have voted for the young.
BEAUTIFUL DEMOCRACY.
With all the lies of Farage and Johnson

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

No. But the young people should have more rights. They are the future. They are those people who should make and create our future. And our world.

[Uxupox]

Slow and steady ultimately doesn't win the race in real life.

Clearly you never heard of evolution.

Slow and steady isn't a role in evolution but adaptability is.

[Imperializt Russia]

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

If it was going to be any age, it would be 65+. You know, the only age bracket that voted majority leave.

Can't be the only one otherwise surely it wouldn't have been possible to vote Leave.

[Uxupox]

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

No. But the young people should have more rights. They are the future. They are those people who should make and create our future. And our world.

Dangerous thoughts.

[Conserative Morality]

So the trick is to wait until the percentage of geriatric citizens in a population is large enough to make sure everyone else gets fucked hard by their old age conservatism.

Don't forget suppression of the youth vote and pandering to the old.

[Neu Leonstein]

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

It's an idea for another thread, but there is a point to all this... old people are far less affected by long-term policy decisions than young ones. We weigh their votes equally though, which is fine if you think old people feel some sort of incentive to do the right thing by their children and future generations. But we've had 40-odd years now of election outcomes demonstrating that this is not the case for the baby boomer generation.

Although then you start going down an interesting, if slippery, slope - why not weight everyone's vote on individual issues according to how affected they would be? In a few years, in a direct democracy that would potentially be technically feasible.

Mind you, on Brexit in that case you'd probably have to weight the votes of non-citizen UK residents with EU passports the highest. Even in the real world, excluding them from the vote was a farce.

[Imperializt Russia]

If it was going to be any age, it would be 65+. You know, the only age bracket that voted majority leave.

They'll soon realize they voted against their own economic interests.

Or maybe they won't, and they'll keep blaming others because they can't afford what they used to anymore.

"Back in my day, we used to blame Europe"

[Novus America]

Slow and steady ultimately doesn't win the race in real life.

Yes, it does. Slow and steady does a better job than quick and violent, at least.

er... slow and steady got us from steam engines to slightly more efficient steam engines: up to a point of rather diminishing returns. Thankfully someone quickly came up with the idea of the combustion engine. And then someone else quickly came up with the jet engine.

Well, how long did it take to get from steam engines to combustion engines and jet engines? Anyway, we're not talking about technological progress here, but political progress. The French Revolution didn't do jack for republican states in Europe. It was the slow liberalisation that followed. Feudalism wasn't broken up by violent revolution, but by slow-working market forces. Eventually, Reaganomics didn't kill the Soviet Union, but slow economic reform. The EU wasn't built in a day, rather it evolved. You can't ask problems to change overnight. It takes dedicated hard work and patience, lest the whole idea explodes in your face.

Arguably the end of feudalism needed the French Revolution. The outcome of which is highly debated.

And yes, you need evolution. People in the UK wanted the EU to improve. They turned against the EU after the EU refused to change.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

The old people have voted against.
In a few years they are dead.
THe youth voted REMAIN. Now the old people have voted for the young.
BEAUTIFUL DEMOCRACY.
With all the lies of Farage and Johnson

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

Are they all murderers and traitors?
Off with their heads then. If not? No.

What's this I'm reading then? I think you did know how to respond, it just wasn't a very good response. Poor show.

I'm not racist, I'm an equal-opportunities elitist.

A:that's racist!
B:I am not racist. I hate everyone equally.
A:so you're quirky racist.

He's probably a Rees-Mogg.

[Galloism]

They'll soon realize they voted against their own economic interests.

Or maybe they won't, and they'll keep blaming others because they can't afford what they used to anymore.

"Back in my day, we used to blame Europe"

I've seen lots of documentaries about medieval England. I think the default action in times of crisis and/or boredom is to attack France.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

No. But the young people should have more rights. They are the future. They are those people who should make and create our future. And our world.

Dangerous thoughts.

A few years ago I'd have agreed with Quaxoglia.

"Back in my day, we used to blame Europe"

I've seen lots of documentaries about medieval England. I think the default action in times of crisis and/or boredom is to attack France.

Sounds like a good game of Civ5, except it's on Prince difficulty.
Or one of the paradox games, I dunno which. hehehe