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Right-Wing Discussion Thread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Favourite Right-Wing Idealogue

Edmund Burke
63
15%
William F. Buckley
39
9%
Dostoevsky
34
8%
Evola
41
10%
De Maistre
15
4%
Disraeli
39
9%
Other
187
45%
 
Total votes : 418

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Lyras
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Jul 26, 2004
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Lyras » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:05 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Ayreonia wrote:I've never met a rightist who wasn't in direct contradiction with himself.

And I've never met a non-hypocritical leftist.


Now, now. Let's all play nice.

To that end, here's my response, from earlier, to a query;

Agritum wrote:But yes, right wingers:

What's racism for you? Is it something bad? Natural? Can racialist outlooks and an emphasis on ethnical homogeneity ease the task of realizing an orderly, hierarchical society, or do they breed the polarization and inter and intra-class hatred that left sometimes love to capitalize on? Is racism moral accordin to your values? Or not? And why?


I figured I'd answer this from my own angle, since the thread is moving fast enough that I'm losing track, even while I post.


People are different from each other, and have intrinsic dignity as a result of their humanity.
People are not interchangeable, as individual traits and cultural foundations for thought- and behaviour-patterns are real.
Peoples (as collectives) are different from each other, as any family is from any other family, writ large. This is not bad. It just is.

It is normal and reasonable to consider the interests of your family ahead of someone else's family.
It is not carte blanche to be a horrendous prick as a consequence, although many seem to miss this point.


Awareness of the correlation between race and culture, broadly (let's not split hairs about race's existence or otherwise here. Leave that conversation for another time), its a fairly easy assertion that ethno-culturally homogenous societies have less (not none, less) ambient internal tensions than heterogenous ones, and there are a whole fistful of statistics one could dig up for this (alas, not now, but they can be found online without too much effort, if one is not typing from a phone. I recommend digging on the point, actually, though accept my slightly-poor-form to not follow up by providing a source or two myself. Time is not my friend herein).
Heirarchies are normal, and not intrinsically bad. People are not the same, pretending they are is counter-factual. That DOES NOT give one the right to treat others like garbage, but a properly structured society should allow the potential for people to become individually upwardly mobile, and not try to pretend everyone is a freely-interchangeable amorphous mass of consumerism, able to be swapped between cultures and societies as if no defining characteristics, experiences or cultural/ideological heritages were in play. That, oddly enough, has been the ironic backblast of a culturally-leftist blurring of national lines. Workers suffer most, as they try to compete with a worker from a culture that is ok with working for $2 an hour.


Part of my take. Hope it's useful.

My take, anyway.
Mokastana: Then Lyras happened.

Allanea: Wanting to avoid fighting Lyras' fuck-huge military is also a reasonable IC consideration

TPF: Who is stupid enough to attack a Lyran convoy?

Sumer: Honestly, I'd rather face Doom's military with Doom having a 3-1 advantage over me, than take a 1-1 fight with a well-supplied Lyran tank unit.

Kinsgard: RL Lyras is like a real life video game character.

Ieperithem: Eighty four. Eighty four percent of their terrifyingly massive GDP goes directly into their military. And they actually know how to manage it. It's safe to say there isn't a single nation that could feasibly stand against them if they wanted it to die.
Yikes. Just... Yikes.

Lyran Arms - Lambda Financial - Foreign Holdings - Tracker - Photo - OOC sentiments

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Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:07 pm

I didn't know fascism was just limited to the Right-wing of the political spectrum ...

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:10 pm

Calimera II wrote:I didn't know fascism was just limited to the Right-wing of the political spectrum ...

It depends on your definition of Fascism. North Korea meets some of the requirements for it, but is left-wing.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59179
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:11 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Ayreonia wrote:I've never met a rightist who wasn't in direct contradiction with himself.

And I've never met a non-hypocritical leftist.


Of course you haven't.
*I am a master proofreader after I click Submit.
* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10326
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:11 pm

What makes an ideology right wing or left wing? Economic position?

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Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:12 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Calimera II wrote:I didn't know fascism was just limited to the Right-wing of the political spectrum ...

It depends on your definition of Fascism. North Korea meets some of the requirements for it, but is left-wing.

Meeting some requirements for it =/= Being Fascist. :]

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Hillary Clinton 2016-2024
Minister
 
Posts: 3414
Founded: Nov 06, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hillary Clinton 2016-2024 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:16 pm

Are you guys moderate leftist or really Left wing leftist?And how long d'you think it'll be before the right wingers hijack this like we did to them?
NS quotes I like
[spoiler]
Napkiraly wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Cruz has been having an affair with Trump, can confirm.

They're making their erections great again.

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:18 pm

Arlenton wrote:What makes an ideology right wing or left wing? Economic position?

Depends on what scale you use. Some methods of charting with different categories, such as fiscal conservatism or fiscal liberalism, but also include authoritarian vs. libertarian on their social scale, best indicate an ideology's stance.

Though typically economics decide an ideology's standing on the left-right polarization.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Hillary Clinton 2016-2024
Minister
 
Posts: 3414
Founded: Nov 06, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hillary Clinton 2016-2024 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:19 pm

Hillary Clinton 2016-2024 wrote:Are you guys moderate leftist or really Left wing leftist?And how long d'you think it'll be before the right wingers hijack this like we did to them?

OHH SHITE WRONG THREAD
NS quotes I like
[spoiler]
Napkiraly wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Cruz has been having an affair with Trump, can confirm.

They're making their erections great again.

User avatar
Korouse
Minister
 
Posts: 3441
Founded: Mar 10, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korouse » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:23 pm

So I might as well ask the "right-wing" thread:

Why do you support Donald Trump? At literally, all the Republican Debates, he has been by far the shittiest debater next to Kasich I guess, and his policies (or promises) are rather basic. I.E. "I'm gonna blow the shit out of them" or "I'm gonna build a wall"

What possibly does he have over the other candidates?
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

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Jochistan
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Posts: 9390
Founded: Nov 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Jochistan » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:25 pm

Korouse wrote:So I might as well ask the "right-wing" thread:

Why do you support Donald Trump? At literally, all the Republican Debates, he has been by far the shittiest debater next to Kasich I guess, and his policies (or promises) are rather basic. I.E. "I'm gonna blow the shit out of them" or "I'm gonna build a wall"

What possibly does he have over the other candidates?

Fuck him. And the Republican party. There's practically no place in the GOP for Centre Rightists anymore.
Your friendly neighborhood Steppe Republic.
I was a wimp before Nationstates, now I'm a jerk and everybody loves me.

Pro: Moral Conservatism, Nationalism, Rationalism, Theocracy, Traditionalism, Golden Age of Islam, Corporal and Capital Punishment, Ethnic Mixing, Integration, Stranka Demokratske Akcije, Kosovo, Tibet, Ichkeria, el Sisi.
Anti: Salafism, Khomeinism, Racial Ultranationalism, Xenophobic Populism, Progressivism, Communism, Hedonism, Pacifism, Multiculturalism, Nihilism, Israel, Hamas, Serbia and friends, China.
Genghis did nothing wrong

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Korouse
Minister
 
Posts: 3441
Founded: Mar 10, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korouse » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:30 pm

Jochistan wrote:
Korouse wrote:So I might as well ask the "right-wing" thread:

Why do you support Donald Trump? At literally, all the Republican Debates, he has been by far the shittiest debater next to Kasich I guess, and his policies (or promises) are rather basic. I.E. "I'm gonna blow the shit out of them" or "I'm gonna build a wall"

What possibly does he have over the other candidates?

Fuck him. And the Republican party. There's practically no place in the GOP for Centre Rightists anymore.

What do you mean exactly? I wouldn't consider Trump Centre-right, unless you're talking about Kasich, who wasn't the subject of the question.
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:30 pm

Korouse wrote:So I might as well ask the "right-wing" thread:

Why do you support Donald Trump? At literally, all the Republican Debates, he has been by far the shittiest debater next to Kasich I guess, and his policies (or promises) are rather basic. I.E. "I'm gonna blow the shit out of them" or "I'm gonna build a wall"

What possibly does he have over the other candidates?

Very few actual right-wingers support Trump. He's a populist in a party with a very large populist wing.
Jochistan wrote:
Korouse wrote:So I might as well ask the "right-wing" thread:

Why do you support Donald Trump? At literally, all the Republican Debates, he has been by far the shittiest debater next to Kasich I guess, and his policies (or promises) are rather basic. I.E. "I'm gonna blow the shit out of them" or "I'm gonna build a wall"

What possibly does he have over the other candidates?

Fuck him. And the Republican party. There's practically no place in the GOP for Centre Rightists anymore.

It depends on what state you live in. The GOP in New York is firmly center-right, while most of its counterparts in the Bible Belt are much more conservative in every aspect.
Last edited by Northern Davincia on Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Lyras
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Jul 26, 2004
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Lyras » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:32 pm

Korouse wrote:So I might as well ask the "right-wing" thread:

Why do you support Donald Trump? At literally, all the Republican Debates, he has been by far the shittiest debater next to Kasich I guess, and his policies (or promises) are rather basic. I.E. "I'm gonna blow the shit out of them" or "I'm gonna build a wall"

What possibly does he have over the other candidates?


Without taking away from Jochistan's point, his support is founded primarily (as far as I can tell) with the widespread frustrations being felt by a (very) large chunk of America (and the broader West, but focusing on America for the moment) at the political establishment. It is felt by the predominantly white, often working class, often poorly educated (classically proletariat, ironically) who feel that they've been abandoned, and that Trump is something different, who is echoing their concerns. It's a powerful driver in the polls, as can be seen.
Mokastana: Then Lyras happened.

Allanea: Wanting to avoid fighting Lyras' fuck-huge military is also a reasonable IC consideration

TPF: Who is stupid enough to attack a Lyran convoy?

Sumer: Honestly, I'd rather face Doom's military with Doom having a 3-1 advantage over me, than take a 1-1 fight with a well-supplied Lyran tank unit.

Kinsgard: RL Lyras is like a real life video game character.

Ieperithem: Eighty four. Eighty four percent of their terrifyingly massive GDP goes directly into their military. And they actually know how to manage it. It's safe to say there isn't a single nation that could feasibly stand against them if they wanted it to die.
Yikes. Just... Yikes.

Lyran Arms - Lambda Financial - Foreign Holdings - Tracker - Photo - OOC sentiments

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Arlenton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10326
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:37 pm

What do you other right wingers think of Neocons? Earlier someone said, much to my surprise, that we are actually leftists.

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Korouse
Minister
 
Posts: 3441
Founded: Mar 10, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Korouse » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:37 pm

Lyras wrote:
Korouse wrote:So I might as well ask the "right-wing" thread:

Why do you support Donald Trump? At literally, all the Republican Debates, he has been by far the shittiest debater next to Kasich I guess, and his policies (or promises) are rather basic. I.E. "I'm gonna blow the shit out of them" or "I'm gonna build a wall"

What possibly does he have over the other candidates?


Without taking away from Jochistan's point, his support is founded primarily (as far as I can tell) with the widespread frustrations being felt by a (very) large chunk of America (and the broader West, but focusing on America for the moment) at the political establishment. It is felt by the predominantly white, often working class, often poorly educated (classically proletariat, ironically) who feel that they've been abandoned, and that Trump is something different, who is echoing their concerns. It's a powerful driver in the polls, as can be seen.

I was more or less asking people who actually support Trump - but thank you for the information nonetheless guys.
Last edited by Korouse on Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything is illusory except power,' the revolutionary people reply." - Vladimir Lenin

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Yumyumsuppertime
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 28799
Founded: Jun 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:43 pm

Calimera II wrote:I didn't know fascism was just limited to the Right-wing of the political spectrum ...


Fascism shows the limitations of that spectrum, and its uselessness as a descriptor of political beliefs.

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Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:44 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Calimera II wrote:I didn't know fascism was just limited to the Right-wing of the political spectrum ...


Fascism shows the limitations of that spectrum, and its uselessness as a descriptor of political beliefs.

I agree with you.

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Jochistan
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9390
Founded: Nov 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Jochistan » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:44 pm

Korouse wrote:
Jochistan wrote:Fuck him. And the Republican party. There's practically no place in the GOP for Centre Rightists anymore.

What do you mean exactly? I wouldn't consider Trump Centre-right, unless you're talking about Kasich, who wasn't the subject of the question.

No, fuck Trump and nearly every other candidate, I mean.

There's no meaningful place for center rightists in the party or anywhere in America anymore because of Trump and pretty much every other major candidate.
Your friendly neighborhood Steppe Republic.
I was a wimp before Nationstates, now I'm a jerk and everybody loves me.

Pro: Moral Conservatism, Nationalism, Rationalism, Theocracy, Traditionalism, Golden Age of Islam, Corporal and Capital Punishment, Ethnic Mixing, Integration, Stranka Demokratske Akcije, Kosovo, Tibet, Ichkeria, el Sisi.
Anti: Salafism, Khomeinism, Racial Ultranationalism, Xenophobic Populism, Progressivism, Communism, Hedonism, Pacifism, Multiculturalism, Nihilism, Israel, Hamas, Serbia and friends, China.
Genghis did nothing wrong

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Lyras
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Jul 26, 2004
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Lyras » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:45 pm

Arlenton wrote:What do you other right wingers think of Neocons? Earlier someone said, much to my surprise, that we are actually leftists.


Neo-conservatism is an ideology that many on the right can find confronting. It agrees with much of what is asserted by the broader right-wing, but comes with it a perception of almost-evangelical zeal to remake the world in the image of the West which many find worrying or difficult to stomach.

I personally have no issue with neo-conservatism, but am more personally concerned with social developments within Western societies than I am with exporting Western social and cultural ideas.
Mokastana: Then Lyras happened.

Allanea: Wanting to avoid fighting Lyras' fuck-huge military is also a reasonable IC consideration

TPF: Who is stupid enough to attack a Lyran convoy?

Sumer: Honestly, I'd rather face Doom's military with Doom having a 3-1 advantage over me, than take a 1-1 fight with a well-supplied Lyran tank unit.

Kinsgard: RL Lyras is like a real life video game character.

Ieperithem: Eighty four. Eighty four percent of their terrifyingly massive GDP goes directly into their military. And they actually know how to manage it. It's safe to say there isn't a single nation that could feasibly stand against them if they wanted it to die.
Yikes. Just... Yikes.

Lyran Arms - Lambda Financial - Foreign Holdings - Tracker - Photo - OOC sentiments

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Reagan-land
Diplomat
 
Posts: 564
Founded: Nov 01, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Reagan-land » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:45 pm

OMG YES A RIGHT WING THREAD

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Reagan-land
Diplomat
 
Posts: 564
Founded: Nov 01, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Reagan-land » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:49 pm

Korouse wrote:
Lyras wrote:
Without taking away from Jochistan's point, his support is founded primarily (as far as I can tell) with the widespread frustrations being felt by a (very) large chunk of America (and the broader West, but focusing on America for the moment) at the political establishment. It is felt by the predominantly white, often working class, often poorly educated (classically proletariat, ironically) who feel that they've been abandoned, and that Trump is something different, who is echoing their concerns. It's a powerful driver in the polls, as can be seen.

I was more or less asking people who actually support Trump - but thank you for the information nonetheless guys.


As oppose to... un-educated economically oblivious Sanders supporters? Who think he's answering to THERE needs? :rofl:
Last edited by Reagan-land on Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Calimera II
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8790
Founded: Jan 03, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Calimera II » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:50 pm

Reagan-land wrote:
Korouse wrote:I was more or less asking people who actually support Trump - but thank you for the information nonetheless guys.


As oppose to... un-educated economically oblivious Sanders supporters? :rofl:


Why don't you leave and just return in summer? :p
Last edited by Calimera II on Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Occupied Deutschland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18796
Founded: Oct 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Occupied Deutschland » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:52 pm

Arlenton wrote:What do you other right wingers think of Neocons? Earlier someone said, much to my surprise, that we are actually leftists.

I've never been very enamored with the willingness of neocons to endorse military action, budget deficits and debt accumulation and, most relevantly to the two with specific eye to the US, the endorsement of grossly overinflated military budgets oftentimes spurred on more by Keynesian economic principles than any kind of military necessity.

I also hold large differences with the ideology over the ability of 'American' democracy (or any democracy, for that matter) to be exported or that encouraging such in foreign nations is automatically a good thing. I think, much like with military usage itself, the ideology and many adherents tend to view themselves and/or America (and/or 'the West' and even, to a limited extant, international organizations like the UN) as some great nation-builder and regime-changer that is justified in whatever actions it takes to promote democracy or 'improve' conditions in third-world countries where the help is either unwanted or can be actively detrimental (See: the current Middle East crisis(es)). It's in THAT aspect I'd compare it to many brands of leftism, though it's certainly quite distinct from them.

There's also the matter of the ideology being unconcerned or actively uncaring about threats to domestic freedoms and/or security its policies can contribute to. Which is perhaps the biggest issue I have with the ideology.
Last edited by Occupied Deutschland on Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm General Patton.
Even those who are gone are with us as we go on.

Been busy lately--not around much.

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Reagan-land
Diplomat
 
Posts: 564
Founded: Nov 01, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Reagan-land » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:52 pm

Calimera II wrote:
Reagan-land wrote:
As oppose to... un-educated economically oblivious Sanders supporters? :rofl:


Why don't you just return in summer?


If you are clueless about how economies work you shouldn't be in a right wing thread.

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