Logical argument against Islamophobia?

[Wallenburg]

You can argue against it all you want, my point still stands, no matter what you say.

They were under nearly completely different circumstances, that slashes your point quite well..

What was different?

[New haven america]

You can argue against it all you want, my point still stands, no matter what you say.

They were under nearly completely different circumstances, that slashes your point quite well..

Really?

Cause both cases are the majority trying to integrate the minority through school/life.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm sure you could say Russia's predominantly Eastern-Orthodox Christian and not exactly Israel when it comes to being LGBT-friendly; why don't you criticize them too?

Because this thread's about Islam if you can read the title. I would if it was a different thread but it isn't so I won't.

The only reason there can possibly be to criticise "Islam" is by comparing it to more western, more European, more "white" cultures.

Enter other western/European/"white" cultures that act very similar to how Islam is being criticised.

[The Lone Alliance]

It's utter bullshit. The only discord is people going OMG DE EBUL MUUUUSLIMS HURR DURR. Frankly there's no point trying to weed out extremists by going ARE YOU A TURRIST? HUH? HUH? Making muslims moderate is only achieved through assimilation of them. Completely merging them with the main culture, discarding all parts that disagree with it.

But that's anti-multiculturalism.

[Hillary Clinton 2016-2024]

I know something worse DONALD TRUMP
*cringes in fear*

Hilary go to sleep this isn't the CNN debate.

Make me.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's utter bullshit. The only discord is people going OMG DE EBUL MUUUUSLIMS HURR DURR. Frankly there's no point trying to weed out extremists by going ARE YOU A TURRIST? HUH? HUH? Making muslims moderate is only achieved through assimilation of them. Completely merging them with the main culture, discarding all parts that disagree with it.

But that's anti-multiculturalism.

It's not

[The Lone Alliance]

It's not

It is.
And darn only 10 smiley's max, I was hoping we could do 10 posts of back and forth eye rolling.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's not

Yes it is

Only if what you believe "multiculturalism" to be is some kind of right-winger's parody where literally any criticism of any foreign culture is racist and must be shut down regardless.

Which isn't what multiculturalism is.
So...

[The Lone Alliance]

Only if what you believe "multiculturalism" to be is some kind of right-winger's parody where literally any criticism of any foreign culture is racist and must be shut down regardless.

Which isn't what multiculturalism is.
So...

http://thatsthejoke.net/

[Imperializt Russia]

Only if what you believe "multiculturalism" to be is some kind of right-winger's parody where literally any criticism of any foreign culture is racist and must be shut down regardless.

Which isn't what multiculturalism is.
So...

http://thatsthejoke.net/

This thread's been allowed to go on for thirty pages and is one of thirty plus this year.

Don't act like it's possible to tell anymore.

[Giovenith]

So your whole point seems to be that you think that humans are these pre-programmed robots with their native cultures "built into" them who are neither willing nor capable of adaption or being influenced by their environment, even in regards to subsequent generations who would have lived their entire lives completely submerged in the new culture, to the point where they will actually outbreed us and force our culture to become indistinguishable from their previous culture by sheer force of numbers?

Lovely.

And yet somehow, America is already a country mostly populated of both the late and early descendants of immigrants who manage to be completely integrated, functional, and preferential towards the culture of the society they reside in. Funny how nobody questions the integration integrity of Germans, the English, Italians, Irish, or Asians these days. Oh no, it's only going to be the Muslims who stand their ground and refuse adaptation no matter how many generations pass, this time, THIS TIME, it's going to be the war of cultures!

Okay, yeah, sure. Once upon a time, a devoutly Catholic Puerto Rican woman who literally thought the Pope was God's voice on Earth who thought that playing cards and Harry Potter were of the Devil and that all Halloween candy is poisoned moved to America. Her granddaughter is now a default atheist who has dabbled in pagan rituals, eats nothing but candy, and doesn't speak any Spanish nor participate in any facet of Puerto Rican culture without specific prompting from aforementioned woman. Two generations, and I'm already completely indistinguishable from anything but an American in everything but physical appearance (depending on your biases of what Americans are "supposed" to look like). Oh yeah, such uprising, such abuse of the American ways.


As for the whole "multiculturalism is white suicide" thing...

I love how there's people who think that the influence of other cultures on their own is a bad thing, meanwhile, given the general populace of this forum, they themselves are (most likely) a cross-European/islander/Asian/African ethnic blend living in a city founded by a variety of European settlers on a continent originally inhabited by natives who arrived here via an ice bridge from Asia, speaking a Germanic-originating language that has been fucked two-ways by a now-dead Mediterranean dialect and a slew of other tongues, using an alphabet system developed by an Arab, advocating philosophies popularized by the Greeks, living off of food largely comprised of ingredients not native to their location (let's say, bananas and coffee), possibly wearing a type of garment originating from India (pajamas), possibly lounging in furniture created by a Swedish guy (IKEA), using god knows how many things manufactured in China, and typing this all on technology that was likely largely developed and produced in Japan. And that's just the stuff I can pull off the top of my head. Whatever chance you may have had to "protect" your culture from too much outside influence was dead before you ever arose from it. Your way of life wouldn't exist without multiculturalism. You probably wouldn't exist without multiculturalism.

Short of literal invaders forcibly changing and eliminating a culture by gun point, there is nothing to cry about when it comes to cultures influencing one another. Nothing is "destroyed." If you think of culture this way, it's because you largely don't actually understand the nature of culture. Save from the absolute most isolated of locations, there largely never has been a completely pure, original culture, culture has always been a result of the exchange of customs and practices from various groups blending into one, the only difference now days is that it's on a much grander scale. The idea that it's now, NOW, that we should shut everything down and stay right where we are never to change is not only ignorant of history, but ignorant of the current state of our planet. We live in an era of unprecedented international communication and exchange, the internet itself slowly creating trends that can be seen as a part of a universal culture, so trying to stand in the way of inter-influence is like trying to stand in the way of a tsunami. It's not going to happen.


All in all: Most immigrants adapt enough where they're able to smoothly function in their society and yet keep their personal native traditions in a way that in no way harms, abuses, or negatively interferes their ability to live or the lives of the society around them. If their culture does become an influence on our culture, it will be because our culture willfully adopts their practices. The immigrants are not going to rise up against the Americans and force us all to conform to their ways--that didn't happen with the Chinese, it didn't happen with the Irish, it didn't happen with the Mexicans, it's not going to happen with the Middle Easterners. How many times do we need to have influxes of immigrants before we finally all realize that the immigrants aren't out to get us?

[Valyrian Freeholds]

It's utter bullshit. The only discord is people going OMG DE EBUL MUUUUSLIMS HURR DURR. Frankly there's no point trying to weed out extremists by going ARE YOU A TURRIST? HUH? HUH? Making muslims moderate is only achieved through assimilation of them. Completely merging them with the main culture, discarding all parts that disagree with it.

But that's anti-multiculturalism.

Multiculturalism is not having multiple jarring cultures with one majority that creates tension. Multiculturalism is blending these cultures with the majority, to create a culture that is homogeneous, but has aspects that can be traced back to cultures before it, DISCARDING aspects which would conflict with the majority culture.

[New confederate ramenia]

But that's anti-multiculturalism.

Multiculturalism is not having multiple jarring cultures with one majority that creates tension. Multiculturalism is blending these cultures with the majority, to create a culture that is homogeneous, but has aspects that can be traced back to cultures before it, DISCARDING aspects which would conflict with the majority culture.

That's called a melting pot, not identical with multiculturalism.

[Councilmembers]

Multiculturalism while in theory sounds great, is something only white/western societies seem to see as ideal. Is this not white suicide? I'd say suicide since they're literally doing it to themselves.

In my opinion, all nations of the world should strive towards multiculturalism and allowing people to be exposed to global values. When you grow up in an area with one set of traditions (including language, faith, ethics, and social norms), you lose out on the human experience.

[New Chalcedon]

That's not how it works though.

What has happened is, you have failed to understand a situation. That is, radical Islam. Not even radical Islam, militant Islam, let's be clear. Those who take up arms to impose their views on others. They subscribe to radical Islam, but radical Islam itself isn't really anything different to radical versions of other religions or ideologies, which all have their militant sects.

What has subsequently happened is, a person has presented what they claim to be a solution.
So desperate for a solution are you, that you have bought it and believe it will be useful.

But... it won't.
Just won't.

Why do you believe it?

It's simple.
let in Islamic refugees = "militants" or whatever anyone wants to call them, have a chance to come in and do damage. for example, some of the attackers In paris came in as reefugees

Don't let them in= lower chance of militants coming in and they cant blend in as eassy

And if we ban ownership of printing presses, seditious literature is less likely to be printed!