National Front rise in France

[Shofercia]

Wouldn't they be best friends though? They're both batshat insane far-right wingers.

Marine Le Pen is serious. Trump? Who knows. I often think Trump's bid for POTUS is nothing more than a joke that got out of hand.

Joke or not, he has a chance of winning the presidency. I think that it started out as a joke, but then Trump started winning, he kept on being number one, and now he's serious. Furthermore, if Republicans don't nominate him while he still has a plurality of the vote, he can run as a third party candidate and Republicans will get Clinton or Sanders. So Republicans have to ask, who they want more: a Casino Mogul, Hillary "I did not hide my e-mails" Clinton, or someone whom they deem a Socialist.

It's the response to EU bureaucrats thinking that they know France better than Frenchmen. It has little to do with the attacks, to which Hollande responded really well. But a single response isn't going to make up for years of EU mismanagement.

This is something that has been brewing for at least the past 10-15 years.

Exactly!

It's the response to EU bureaucrats thinking that they know France better than Frenchmen. It has little to do with the attacks, to which Hollande responded really well. But a single response isn't going to make up for years of EU mismanagement.

One of they key things the Front National has been vocal on is immigration and especially what they call the "Islamification" of France. Support for the FN will almost certainly have increased since the attacks in Paris but FN's beef against Muslims has been going on for decades.

The issue is increased immigration and austerity. I have business contacts in France, you know what some of them are saying? "Why are these immigrants getting our tax dollars for social services, what do they do?!" Add austerity, increase in retirement age, stress on social programs, etc. It's going on all over the World, even a bit in California, but instead of deportation we'll just end up with a massive cut in social services for immigrants, which will then raise crime rates my minorities, which will contribute to racism, and so on, and so forth.

[Geilinor]

It's the response to EU bureaucrats thinking that they know France better than Frenchmen. It has little to do with the attacks, to which Hollande responded really well. But a single response isn't going to make up for years of EU mismanagement.

The solution is to have far-right bureaucrats controlling France?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

[

The nationalism bent doesn't help in the integration department, though. And that is what is worrying.

It's fairly typical of French politics.

Oh, I know. I just think it is wrong. If you want your minorities to fully integrate into your society, pushing a nationalism agenda will not accomplish it. It is what we're seeing with France nowadays. Of course, this is repeating itself in other parts of Europe. This provokes radicalization.

[ErVaReAn rEpUbLiC]

Not that I agree with what the Front National stand for, but this is pretty understandable given what France has recently experience. France still has massive issues with its Muslim population not being fully integrated into French society even into second and third generations.

Understandable, but Le Pen will only worsen the problem. She has no credible policies to improve integration or ethnic relations. And as far as immigration goes, while France has historically had a rather large inflow of migrants, currently immigration into the country is rather small, and there isn't that much refugee immigration into the countries compared to Germany. In fact, the French can't even persuade refugees to seek asylum in France anymore!

[Costa Fierro]

[

It's fairly typical of French politics.

Oh, I know. I just think it is wrong. If you want your minorities to fully integrate into your society, pushing a nationalism agenda will not accomplish it. It is what we're seeing with France nowadays. Of course, this is repeating itself in other parts of Europe. This provokes radicalization.

It's a fairly tragic and somewhat circular set of circumstances.

[Geilinor]

The issue is increased immigration and austerity. I have business contacts in France, you know what some of them are saying? "Why are these immigrants getting our tax dollars for social services, what do they do?!" Add austerity, increase in retirement age, stress on social programs, etc. It's going on all over the World, even a bit in California, but instead of deportation we'll just end up with a massive cut in social services for immigrants, which will then raise crime rates my minorities, which will contribute to racism, and so on, and so forth.

Increased immigration aside, a retirement age of 62 is outdated and not helping anyone. 65 is fair and can be funded with an aging population.

[Costa Fierro]

Understandable, but Le Pen will only worsen the problem. She has no credible policies to improve integration or ethnic relations.

Because she doesn't want to improve them. As far as she is concerned, France's ethnic minorities are an inherent threat to the French nation and its values, not an asset.

[Vassenor]

[

It's fairly typical of French politics.

Oh, I know. I just think it is wrong. If you want your minorities to fully integrate into your society, pushing a nationalism agenda will not accomplish it. It is what we're seeing with France nowadays. Of course, this is repeating itself in other parts of Europe. This provokes radicalization.

Which is exactly what the nationalists want. As the radicalisation gets worse, and the radicals do more and more extreme things it get easier for the nationalists to use them to drum up support.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

This is a common problem in Europe generally. I think it's completely understandable that we're seeing discontent about how immigration is being handled in Europe transform into support for far-right parties. I'm not convinced that those parties are offering any practical, workable solutions, and that might not even be important for the voters, since I'm sure that for many of them this is just about signalling dissatisfaction.

It's not just immigration, although many far-right parties do have it as a primary issue. Pretty much all of those like Front National are Euro-skeptic and see the current Eurozone crisis, the recession and the issues with Greece as a clear sign that the EU is doomed to failure or is a failed experiment in European unity.

Which, given how the Eurozone mostly operates under a single currency with each member state operating a different monetary policy, it's kind of easy to see the point they're making.

Yeah, and it all relates back to national sovereignty, which is what I think underpins all of these far-right parties. Just as clusters of non-integrating is immigrants is seen as an attack on national cohesion and identity, this notion of the EU as a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels telling European countries what to do is seen as an attack on national self-determination. I can't speak for France, but certainly in Britain the far-right narrative about the EU and immigration is thematically very similar. It's all about what control we have over our country. And, like you said, with all these crises in Europe, I think many more people are beginning question whether control should be brought back to the national level.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Oh, I know. I just think it is wrong. If you want your minorities to fully integrate into your society, pushing a nationalism agenda will not accomplish it. It is what we're seeing with France nowadays. Of course, this is repeating itself in other parts of Europe. This provokes radicalization.

It's a fairly tragic and somewhat circular set of circumstances.

Quite. The recent attacks in Paris (which were wrong, no matter what, France didn't deserve this) are a just evidencing what this nationalism is doing.

[The Liberated Territories]

This is a great day for France.
Le Penn will make France great (And French) again!

More of the same...

[Shofercia]

It's the response to EU bureaucrats thinking that they know France better than Frenchmen. It has little to do with the attacks, to which Hollande responded really well. But a single response isn't going to make up for years of EU mismanagement.

The solution is to have far-right bureaucrats controlling France?

The solution, from their perspective, is to have anti-EU parties controlling France. Every single time an extreme party rises in Europe, (I'm talking about recent times,) odds are 9 to 1 that it's because the EU bureaucrats fucked up. Furthermore, the biggest resistance to EU comes from Nationalists, who happen to generally be on the right, not the left.

EU's hypocrisy knows no bounds. After the powerful EU countries established Nord (North) Stream, so that they're energy secured, they've worked their asses off to block South Stream, which, irrespective of whether it's true or not, sounds like "EU has two types of countries, those drinking at the white fountain and those drinking at the colored fountain". The reason that France is significant, is that France is the one drinking from the white fountain, and is still unhappy with the EU. Not to mention that EU imposed anti-Russian sanctions at the request of the US, and how'd that work out for EU farmers? What, they couldn't foresee that Putin, who answered nearly all things he sees as anti-Russian, would answer anti-Russian sanctions? Either they're idiots, or they don't give a shit about the people, and either way, they're getting hammered in the polls. Oh, and in Greece, the radical left parties are the ones that are anti-EU.

[Geilinor]

This is a great day for France.
Le Penn will make France great (And French) again!

Oh man, did Trump take that slogan from Le Pen or the other way around?

[The Ben Boys]

Well, that's democracy for you.

True. But you've got to remember that democracy is a shit way of doing things. Guillotines are the way forward...

That's French democracy for you.

Which is actual democracy. Which is mob rule. Which is why constitutional republics are the best.

[Shofercia]

The issue is increased immigration and austerity. I have business contacts in France, you know what some of them are saying? "Why are these immigrants getting our tax dollars for social services, what do they do?!" Add austerity, increase in retirement age, stress on social programs, etc. It's going on all over the World, even a bit in California, but instead of deportation we'll just end up with a massive cut in social services for immigrants, which will then raise crime rates my minorities, which will contribute to racism, and so on, and so forth.

Increased immigration aside, a retirement age of 62 is outdated and not helping anyone. 65 is fair and can be funded with an aging population.

Sounds like random numbers to me, but if someone was to raise my retirement age while spending money on immigrants and cutting my social services, guess which party I'm not voting for?

[The balkens]

It's the response to EU bureaucrats thinking that they know France better than Frenchmen. It has little to do with the attacks, to which Hollande responded really well. But a single response isn't going to make up for years of EU mismanagement.

The solution is to have far-right bureaucrats controlling France?

For the chance they might be Pro-russia.

*nods.

[Thermodolia]

This is a great day for France.
Le Penn will make France great (And French) again!

Oh man, did Trump take that slogan from Le Pen or the other way around?

I think you just killed trumps campaign with a copyright infringement lawsuit

[Costa Fierro]

Quite. The recent attacks in Paris (which were wrong, no matter what, France didn't deserve this) are a just evidencing what this nationalism is doing.

I wouldn't blame the attacks on nationalism, as there is (albeit anecdotal) evidence to suggest that some of the attackers we're actually French citizens and those that were French citizens were probably radicalized in France.

[Trollgaard]

Good for France!

[Shofercia]

This is a great day for France.
Le Penn will make France great (And French) again!

Oh man, did Trump take that slogan from Le Pen or the other way around?

He took it from Reagan, i.e. "Let's Make America Great" and then turned it into a command "Make America Great Again!" Stewart dissected it quite brilliantly.

The solution is to have far-right bureaucrats controlling France?

For the chance they might be Pro-russia.

*nods.

Putin and Hollande are trying to get an anti-ISIS coalition going. I doubt Le Pen would've done something drastically different. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute, or are you going to bring in Russia just to annoy cause I creamed ya in the past?

It's not just immigration, although many far-right parties do have it as a primary issue. Pretty much all of those like Front National are Euro-skeptic and see the current Eurozone crisis, the recession and the issues with Greece as a clear sign that the EU is doomed to failure or is a failed experiment in European unity.

Which, given how the Eurozone mostly operates under a single currency with each member state operating a different monetary policy, it's kind of easy to see the point they're making.

Yeah, and it all relates back to national sovereignty, which is what I think underpins all of these far-right parties. Just as clusters of non-integrating is immigrants is seen as an attack on national cohesion and identity, this notion of the EU as a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels telling European countries what to do is seen as an attack on national self-determination. I can't speak for France, but certainly in Britain the far-right narrative about the EU and immigration is thematically very similar. It's all about what control we have over our country. And, like you said, with all these crises in Europe, I think many more people are beginning question whether control should be brought back to the national level.

Bingo!

It's a fairly tragic and somewhat circular set of circumstances.

Quite. The recent attacks in Paris (which were wrong, no matter what, France didn't deserve this) are a just evidencing what this nationalism is doing.

I wouldn't say it's a response to nationalism. It's more of an ISIS copycat organizations hitting soft targets to help ISIS. The responses to nationalism in France are milder.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Quite. The recent attacks in Paris (which were wrong, no matter what, France didn't deserve this) are a just evidencing what this nationalism is doing.

I wouldn't blame the attacks on nationalism, as there is (albeit anecdotal) evidence to suggest that some of the attackers we're actually French citizens and those that were French citizens were probably radicalized in France.

Well, that is just one thing. There's also the burqa ban, the pork alternative meals elimination (in municipalities controlled by Front Nationale I might add), which looks like it targets Muslim and Jewish people alike...

[The balkens]

Oh man, did Trump take that slogan from Le Pen or the other way around?

He took it from Reagan, i.e. "Let's Make America Great" and then turned it into a command "Make America Great Again!" Stewart dissected it quite brilliantly.

For the chance they might be Pro-russia.

*nods.

Putin and Hollande are trying to get an anti-ISIS coalition going. I doubt Le Pen would've done something drastically different. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute, or are you going to bring in Russia just to annoy cause I creamed ya in the past?

I dont put out.

I mean, if i were some Vatnik in Moscow id cream over having some Far right asshat take power in EU countries for the sake of Fucking the EU.

[Shofercia]

He took it from Reagan, i.e. "Let's Make America Great" and then turned it into a command "Make America Great Again!" Stewart dissected it quite brilliantly.




Putin and Hollande are trying to get an anti-ISIS coalition going. I doubt Le Pen would've done something drastically different. Now, do you have anything of substance to contribute, or are you going to bring in Russia just to annoy cause I creamed ya in the past?

I dont put out.

It's a figure of speech.

[Unnamed island state]

Imagine what it'll be like when xenophobes complain about not having fptp when Le Pen loses.

I am hoping that this is the dawn of a permanent shift toward the right within French politics, it goes to show that there is hope yet for France. I am just anticipating when the Front National can get into office. It couldn't be sooner. I am thrilled at the prospect.

Don't delude yourself, Le Pen is a populist not a right winger, she won't bow down to Anglo Saxon ultraneoliberalisme.

[The balkens]

Besides, i doubt anything by and large will happen if FN will take power.