Being triggered has nothing to do with being offended.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

In the future, one could only wonder how the previous generation made it by just fine without said trigger warnings.

Future hell - I grew up without 99% of the asshattery that goes on today, and did just fine. In fact, I remember a rather fun, joyous even, childhood full of bumps, bruises, fights, bullies, emergency room visits, risk-taking, a lack of seat belts and child restraints, being outside all damn day long regardless of the season, and more or less running ourselves ragged with it all. And somehow, managing.

Does it work for all? No, of course not. But I'm telling you folks, that overall, we have taken huge steps backwards in enabling people in general to be accountable for themselves, take care of themselves, fend for themselves, stand up for themselves, hell - even to think for themselves. Mob mentality and the like applies to more than just riots. Dare I say social media, anyone?

No, it wasn't perfect. Yes, I'm sure we made tons of mistakes. But overall, we had to answer for ourselves. Our teachers weren't held responsible for our grades unless some unfairness was actually going on. Bullying was not actually encouraged, but we weren't so backwards about it that a kindergartener taking a bite out of his Pop-Tart and holding it like a weapon would get suspended, let alone chastised for being, more or less, a kid.

There are people who have legitimate issues that they cannot control, and can be very debilitating. I get it. I don't disagree that it's a horrible thing, and they should not purposefully be subjected to things that set them off. However, the vast majority does not suffer from this problem, and need to put on their big kid pants and learn to dwi, to put it bluntly. If you dislike something so strongly, avoid it. If the drama on the internet is 'just too much', step away. If you don't like people voicing their opinions on your pages, disable commentary. If it is not an actual crisis, emergency, or absolute breaking point? There is no need to make it one with hysterics, finger-pointing, tears and/or rage. You have words used at you? Use words back, more creatively, more eloquently, more coherently. Without stooping, if possible, though I admit a little 'slumming' can be amusing at times. Call it the immature little shit in me.

But yeah. We did deal. And we've got absolutely nothing on our grandparent's generation. Those folks were fething hard core in their ability to dust themselves off, do what was needed, and get the fuck on with things. Again, not perfect, but we really have lost some outstanding ethics over the years. If you wonder why some older people look at some of the younger ones with disgust and just shake their head? It's likely because they cannot believe that all their hard work and sacrifice has gone to enable the sort of whining excuse-making lack of responsibility and accountability that goes on these days. I find myself doing it too, and I'm not old yet, dammit.

/rant-ramble-grumble-grr-argh

[Grinning Dragon]

In the future, one could only wonder how the previous generation made it by just fine without said trigger warnings.

Future hell - I grew up without 99% of the asshattery that goes on today, and did just fine. In fact, I remember a rather fun, joyous even, childhood full of bumps, bruises, fights, bullies, emergency room visits, risk-taking, a lack of seat belts and child restraints, being outside all damn day long regardless of the season, and more or less running ourselves ragged with it all. And somehow, managing.

Does it work for all? No, of course not. But I'm telling you folks, that overall, we have taken huge steps backwards in enabling people in general to be accountable for themselves, take care of themselves, fend for themselves, stand up for themselves, hell - even to think for themselves. Mob mentality and the like applies to more than just riots. Dare I say social media, anyone?

No, it wasn't perfect. Yes, I'm sure we made tons of mistakes. But overall, we had to answer for ourselves. Our teachers weren't held responsible for our grades unless some unfairness was actually going on. Bullying was not actually encouraged, but we weren't so backwards about it that a kindergartener taking a bite out of his Pop-Tart and holding it like a weapon would get suspended, let alone chastised for being, more or less, a kid.

There are people who have legitimate issues that they cannot control, and can be very debilitating. I get it. I don't disagree that it's a horrible thing, and they should not purposefully be subjected to things that set them off. However, the vast majority does not suffer from this problem, and need to put on their big kid pants and learn to dwi, to put it bluntly. If you dislike something so strongly, avoid it. If the drama on the internet is 'just too much', step away. If you don't like people voicing their opinions on your pages, disable commentary. If it is not an actual crisis, emergency, or absolute breaking point? There is no need to make it one with hysterics, finger-pointing, tears and/or rage. You have words used at you? Use words back, more creatively, more eloquently, more coherently. Without stooping, if possible, though I admit a little 'slumming' can be amusing at times. Call it the immature little shit in me.

But yeah. We did deal. And we've got absolutely nothing on our grandparent's generation. Those folks were fething hard core in their ability to dust themselves off, do what was needed, and get the fuck on with things. Again, not perfect, but we really have lost some outstanding ethics over the years. If you wonder why some older people look at some of the younger ones with disgust and just shake their head? It's likely because they cannot believe that all their hard work and sacrifice has gone to enable the sort of whining excuse-making lack of responsibility and accountability that goes on these days. I find myself doing it too, and I'm not old yet, dammit.

/rant-ramble-grumble-grr-argh

Well said, well said.

[Shaggai]

YOU DO NOT GIVE PSYCHOTHERAPY TO PEOPLE WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.

Your point?

Oh and your caps lock is stuck

You don't use medical reasons as a justification for not warning, because if it's medical then it's psychotherapy and you do not give psychotherapy to people without their consent.

"Triggers" are a real thing.

People who have been in conflicts that could cause serious mental trauma (war, genocide, famine, etc.) and those memories could be resurfaced by things such as loud noises, bright lights, or familiar situations. We've seen videos of Shellshocked soldiers from World War One. Mental trauma is a very real thing.

But if you have a food blog you shouldn't have to put warnings for people with eating disorders.

Yeah, trigger warning pictures of food is an example of something I would call really sheltering/overreaching in a negative sense.

Why? Obviously if you have a food blog you can just warn for, y'know, your entire blog, but if you're not a food blog there's no particular reason not to tag things "food" or "food cw" or whatever.

[Tahar Joblis]

One can not modify vigorous debate without ruining the education of others. I am sorry if you can not handle debate your destiny lies with janitorial work save the educated jobs for those of us who are not damaged.

Modify? Modify what? Literally all you need to do is put on the syllabus: "Movie contains graphic visualizations of: Sexual Assault, Rape, Domestic Abuse". "This chapter contains explicit description of: Suicide".

You don't have to change the class, it's literally a warning so that students can mentally prepare for it in order to participate to the best of their abilities as opposed to having panic attacks in class.

No, that's not "all you have to do."

Mind you, some profs are responding to the whole debacle by adding some boilerplate to their syllabi about materials covered in the class being potentially triggering, which can be used to fend off administrative crap, but that is far less than what the "trigger warning" movement is asking for. What is really being asked of professors is to make, effectively, detailed ratings board evaluations of all content covered in the course. This is actually a fairly substantial burden in courses where it is relevant.

Speaking of syllabus boilerplate, that reminds me of another distinction: If this was concerning the treatment of students who actually have problems with PTSD interfering with their study, that's really an issue for specific individual accommodations through a disability services office. Most universities offer a wide range of services to students who have one or another disability (mostly psychological difficulties, as it turns out, and ones with less clear-cut diagnostic criteria than PTSD).

Instead, on this issue, we are supposed to alter how all courses are taught, rather than add it to the list of assorted psychological problems that can be accommodated on a specific basis when necessary.

Which is another point in the long list of qualities that the "trigger warning" movement shares in common with censorship movements as opposed to anything related to the maintenance of psychological health.

You don't use medical reasons as a justification for not warning, because if it's medical then it's psychotherapy and you do not give psychotherapy to people without their consent.

Not providing a trigger warning isn't "psychotherapy" any more than providing trigger warnings is "psychotherapy."

I pointed this out before. The "trigger warning" movement is the one saying that professors, bloggers, et cetera are responsible for the mental health of their students, readers, et cetera, and that it is their responsibility to provide a therapeutic environment.

[Meryuma]

Why? Obviously if you have a food blog you can just warn for, y'know, your entire blog, but if you're not a food blog there's no particular reason not to tag things "food" or "food cw" or whatever.

I guess. It's sort of something where if a specific person told me that they were severely upset, I would add it. But on principle I think it is one of the few cases where it doesn't necessarily positive to avoid the source of the anxiety/subject of the compulsion or discomfort altogether. People with eating disorders still eat, and still see food whenever they go to the store etc. It usually has to do with self-image and not a fear of food items themselves. Attempting to block out acknowledgment of food from one's life as much as possible seems a bit unhealthy to me. I think accommodating people with eating disorders would have more to do with warning body type shaming stuff, depictions of extremely thin people etc. I'll freely admit that I'm not an expert on the subject tho.

[Tahar Joblis]

I agree with that, but there's also value in doing small things to make others' lives more comfortable and accommodate those with needs more severe than one's own. And I've panicked in public countless times, tho not because of triggers.

There's significant value in having open discussion in courses, and covering topics that are on the "trigger warning" lists, like racism, colonialism, suicide, rape, etc. In some cases (such as courses on ethics, criminal behavior, etc) a large portion of the value of having the course in the first place consists of pushing students outside of their normal comfort zone.

In fact, pushing students outside of their current intellectual comfort zones and thereby broadening them is often touted as one of the major benefits of a liberal arts education. See, for example, here, here, and here. Since the effect of the policies pushed by the movement for trigger warnings is to censor the material that pushes normal students out of their comfort zone (on the grounds that exposure to things such as "colonialism" or "racism" in the setting of a novel will re-traumatize students with PTSD) this makes the apparent end goals of the trigger warning movement at odds with the principles of a liberal arts education.

"Trigger warning" policies aren't focused on common actual triggers, such as the sound of a gunshot. (Something very common in movies.) They're focused - and the controversial policy put up by Oberlin is a perfect case in point - on general concepts. Most of the things the Oberlin policy specifically lists are "isms" - beliefs - as if contact with systems of belief is how PTSD is generally triggered. Examples don't focus on movies or film clips, with their explicit and much more visceral sensations likely to provide unexpected triggers; but on books, whose sensory impact is substantially more limited.

[Gauthier]

SJWs tend to exaggerate everything, if you haven't noticed.

That sounds like an exaggeration.

And you exaggerated that, which means a bunch of people in Organic Fair Trade suits are going to snatch you and take you off to a Green Site.

[Klegorth]

Don't you remember when content warnings didn't cause such a huge testosterone fit?

Petrich Farm Remembers

[Exelia]

In the future, one could only wonder how the previous generation made it by just fine without said trigger warnings.

Future hell - I grew up without 99% of the asshattery that goes on today, and did just fine. In fact, I remember a rather fun, joyous even, childhood full of bumps, bruises, fights, bullies, emergency room visits, risk-taking, a lack of seat belts and child restraints, being outside all damn day long regardless of the season, and more or less running ourselves ragged with it all. And somehow, managing.

Does it work for all? No, of course not. But I'm telling you folks, that overall, we have taken huge steps backwards in enabling people in general to be accountable for themselves, take care of themselves, fend for themselves, stand up for themselves, hell - even to think for themselves. Mob mentality and the like applies to more than just riots. Dare I say social media, anyone?

No, it wasn't perfect. Yes, I'm sure we made tons of mistakes. But overall, we had to answer for ourselves. Our teachers weren't held responsible for our grades unless some unfairness was actually going on. Bullying was not actually encouraged, but we weren't so backwards about it that a kindergartener taking a bite out of his Pop-Tart and holding it like a weapon would get suspended, let alone chastised for being, more or less, a kid.

There are people who have legitimate issues that they cannot control, and can be very debilitating. I get it. I don't disagree that it's a horrible thing, and they should not purposefully be subjected to things that set them off. However, the vast majority does not suffer from this problem, and need to put on their big kid pants and learn to dwi, to put it bluntly. If you dislike something so strongly, avoid it. If the drama on the internet is 'just too much', step away. If you don't like people voicing their opinions on your pages, disable commentary. If it is not an actual crisis, emergency, or absolute breaking point? There is no need to make it one with hysterics, finger-pointing, tears and/or rage. You have words used at you? Use words back, more creatively, more eloquently, more coherently. Without stooping, if possible, though I admit a little 'slumming' can be amusing at times. Call it the immature little shit in me.

But yeah. We did deal. And we've got absolutely nothing on our grandparent's generation. Those folks were fething hard core in their ability to dust themselves off, do what was needed, and get the fuck on with things. Again, not perfect, but we really have lost some outstanding ethics over the years. If you wonder why some older people look at some of the younger ones with disgust and just shake their head? It's likely because they cannot believe that all their hard work and sacrifice has gone to enable the sort of whining excuse-making lack of responsibility and accountability that goes on these days. I find myself doing it too, and I'm not old yet, dammit.

/rant-ramble-grumble-grr-argh

Yeah yeah yeah it's the new generations that sucks.

OK Grandpa. Literally the same argument since Greece.

Watching a couple of internet memes about people being offended does mean you can then conclude an entire generation is fragile.

[USS Monitor]

In the future, one could only wonder how the previous generation made it by just fine without said trigger warnings.

Future hell - I grew up without 99% of the asshattery that goes on today, and did just fine. In fact, I remember a rather fun, joyous even, childhood full of bumps, bruises, fights, bullies, emergency room visits, risk-taking, a lack of seat belts and child restraints, being outside all damn day long regardless of the season, and more or less running ourselves ragged with it all. And somehow, managing.

Does it work for all? No, of course not. But I'm telling you folks, that overall, we have taken huge steps backwards in enabling people in general to be accountable for themselves, take care of themselves, fend for themselves, stand up for themselves, hell - even to think for themselves. Mob mentality and the like applies to more than just riots. Dare I say social media, anyone?

No, it wasn't perfect. Yes, I'm sure we made tons of mistakes. But overall, we had to answer for ourselves. Our teachers weren't held responsible for our grades unless some unfairness was actually going on. Bullying was not actually encouraged, but we weren't so backwards about it that a kindergartener taking a bite out of his Pop-Tart and holding it like a weapon would get suspended, let alone chastised for being, more or less, a kid.

There are people who have legitimate issues that they cannot control, and can be very debilitating. I get it. I don't disagree that it's a horrible thing, and they should not purposefully be subjected to things that set them off. However, the vast majority does not suffer from this problem, and need to put on their big kid pants and learn to dwi, to put it bluntly. If you dislike something so strongly, avoid it. If the drama on the internet is 'just too much', step away. If you don't like people voicing their opinions on your pages, disable commentary. If it is not an actual crisis, emergency, or absolute breaking point? There is no need to make it one with hysterics, finger-pointing, tears and/or rage. You have words used at you? Use words back, more creatively, more eloquently, more coherently. Without stooping, if possible, though I admit a little 'slumming' can be amusing at times. Call it the immature little shit in me.

But yeah. We did deal. And we've got absolutely nothing on our grandparent's generation. Those folks were fething hard core in their ability to dust themselves off, do what was needed, and get the fuck on with things. Again, not perfect, but we really have lost some outstanding ethics over the years. If you wonder why some older people look at some of the younger ones with disgust and just shake their head? It's likely because they cannot believe that all their hard work and sacrifice has gone to enable the sort of whining excuse-making lack of responsibility and accountability that goes on these days. I find myself doing it too, and I'm not old yet, dammit.

/rant-ramble-grumble-grr-argh

Think how I feel. When I was young, I got shot at with cannons. Now we've got people that act like it's a threat to their life if someone makes a racist comment.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Future hell - I grew up without 99% of the asshattery that goes on today, and did just fine. In fact, I remember a rather fun, joyous even, childhood full of bumps, bruises, fights, bullies, emergency room visits, risk-taking, a lack of seat belts and child restraints, being outside all damn day long regardless of the season, and more or less running ourselves ragged with it all. And somehow, managing.

Does it work for all? No, of course not. But I'm telling you folks, that overall, we have taken huge steps backwards in enabling people in general to be accountable for themselves, take care of themselves, fend for themselves, stand up for themselves, hell - even to think for themselves. Mob mentality and the like applies to more than just riots. Dare I say social media, anyone?

No, it wasn't perfect. Yes, I'm sure we made tons of mistakes. But overall, we had to answer for ourselves. Our teachers weren't held responsible for our grades unless some unfairness was actually going on. Bullying was not actually encouraged, but we weren't so backwards about it that a kindergartener taking a bite out of his Pop-Tart and holding it like a weapon would get suspended, let alone chastised for being, more or less, a kid.

There are people who have legitimate issues that they cannot control, and can be very debilitating. I get it. I don't disagree that it's a horrible thing, and they should not purposefully be subjected to things that set them off. However, the vast majority does not suffer from this problem, and need to put on their big kid pants and learn to dwi, to put it bluntly. If you dislike something so strongly, avoid it. If the drama on the internet is 'just too much', step away. If you don't like people voicing their opinions on your pages, disable commentary. If it is not an actual crisis, emergency, or absolute breaking point? There is no need to make it one with hysterics, finger-pointing, tears and/or rage. You have words used at you? Use words back, more creatively, more eloquently, more coherently. Without stooping, if possible, though I admit a little 'slumming' can be amusing at times. Call it the immature little shit in me.

But yeah. We did deal. And we've got absolutely nothing on our grandparent's generation. Those folks were fething hard core in their ability to dust themselves off, do what was needed, and get the fuck on with things. Again, not perfect, but we really have lost some outstanding ethics over the years. If you wonder why some older people look at some of the younger ones with disgust and just shake their head? It's likely because they cannot believe that all their hard work and sacrifice has gone to enable the sort of whining excuse-making lack of responsibility and accountability that goes on these days. I find myself doing it too, and I'm not old yet, dammit.

/rant-ramble-grumble-grr-argh

Yeah yeah yeah it's the new generations that sucks.

OK Grandpa. Literally the same argument since Greece.

Watching a couple of internet memes about people being offended does mean you can then conclude an entire generation is fragile.

It's not just a few memes, you know. We are having a generation that does indeed seem to be more quick to take offense at certain subjects.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a stretch to ask for certain topics to have a content warning. But this content warning should not be used as a way to shot down discussion. Nor should it be mandatory to provide these warnings if the person doesn't consider them necessary.

[Exelia]

Yeah yeah yeah it's the new generations that sucks.

OK Grandpa. Literally the same argument since Greece.

Watching a couple of internet memes about people being offended does mean you can then conclude an entire generation is fragile.

It's not just a few memes, you know. We are having a generation that does indeed seem to be more quick to take offense at certain subjects.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a stretch to ask for certain topics to have a content warning. But this content warning should not be used as a way to shot down discussion. Nor should it be mandatory to provide these warnings if the person doesn't consider them necessary.

Offended at what? The most I have seen are college campuses and safe spaces. That is literally it. I have never in my life been forced censor my speech because someone was offended. Nobody I know has either.

The idea millennials are somehow inferior to previous generations, is just the same egoist masturbation every generation, including the millennials, use about the new one.

[Klegorth]

It's not just a few memes, you know. We are having a generation that does indeed seem to be more quick to take offense at certain subjects.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a stretch to ask for certain topics to have a content warning. But this content warning should not be used as a way to shot down discussion. Nor should it be mandatory to provide these warnings if the person doesn't consider them necessary.

The fact that people aren't getting killed over internet posts, seems like it's a massive overswelling of testeria that the standard ass nerd loves to put on about.

Also no shit that certain subjects are being talked about more. They are more topical. A bear shits in the woods, now this is a controversy. Jesus Christ.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It's not just a few memes, you know. We are having a generation that does indeed seem to be more quick to take offense at certain subjects.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a stretch to ask for certain topics to have a content warning. But this content warning should not be used as a way to shot down discussion. Nor should it be mandatory to provide these warnings if the person doesn't consider them necessary.

Offended at what? The most I have seen are college campuses and safe spaces. That is literally it. Ii have in my life been forced censor my speech because someone was offended. Nobody I know has either.

The idea millennials are somehow inferior to previous generations, his just the same egoist masturbation every generation, including the millennials, use about the new one.

I don't consider them inferior. I do think many, not all, are rather too quick to take offense at certain subjects.

And if you want examples, check Tumblr. Or read this. I've seen people claim that reading about affirmative action triggers them.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It's not just a few memes, you know. We are having a generation that does indeed seem to be more quick to take offense at certain subjects.

And don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a stretch to ask for certain topics to have a content warning. But this content warning should not be used as a way to shot down discussion. Nor should it be mandatory to provide these warnings if the person doesn't consider them necessary.

The fact that people aren't getting killed over internet posts, seems like it's a massive overswelling of testeria that the standard ass nerd loves to put on about.

Also no shit that certain subjects are being talked about more. They are more topical. A bear shits in the woods, now this is a controversy. Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure what you're getting on about.

[Klegorth]

I'm not sure what you're getting on about.

Me either. I thought you said something more inflammatory, so I responded with sarcasm.

It was a shit post.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'm not sure what you're getting on about.

Me either. I thought you said something more inflammatory, so I responded with sarcasm.

It was a shit post.

I didn't say anything inflammatory.

[Exelia]

I don't consider them inferior. I do think many, not all, are rather too quick to take offense at certain subjects.

Really, because Nan was more or less arguing millennials was in general inferior compared to every previous generation.

And if you want examples, check Tumblr.

90% of Tumblr is porn. 9% is fandom. The rest is memes about "omigawd offended".

Or read this. I've seen people claim that reading about affirmative action triggers them.

Yet again something confined to college campuses.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't consider them inferior. I do think many, not all, are rather too quick to take offense at certain subjects.

Really, because Nan was more or less arguing millennials was in general inferior compared to every previous generation.

I didn't see that in Nathicana's post.

[Klegorth]

Me either. I thought you said something more inflammatory, so I responded with sarcasm.

It was a shit post.

I didn't say anything inflammatory.

That's the reason why it was a shit post.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

I don't consider them inferior. I do think many, not all, are rather too quick to take offense at certain subjects.

Really, because Nan was more or less arguing millennials was in general inferior compared to every previous generation.

And if you want examples, check Tumblr.

90% of Tumblr is porn. 9% is fandom. The rest is memes about "omigawd offended".

Or read this. I've seen people claim that reading about affirmative action triggers them.

Yet again something confined to college campuses.

I have been to Tumblr, and can confirm the majority of it is porn, fan fiction, and porns of fan fiction. So it isn't as bad as people on YouTube make it out to be.

[Exelia]

Really, because Nan was more or less arguing millennials was in general inferior compared to every previous generation.

I didn't see that in Nathicana's post.

But yeah. We did deal. And we've got absolutely nothing on our grandparent's generation. Those folks were fething hard core in their ability to dust themselves off, do what was needed, and get the fuck on with things. Again, not perfect, but we really have lost some outstanding ethics over the years. If you wonder why some older people look at some of the younger ones with disgust and just shake their head? It's likely because they cannot believe that all their hard work and sacrifice has gone to enable the sort of whining excuse-making lack of responsibility and accountability that goes on these days. I find myself doing it too, and I'm not old yet, dammit.

It was admittedly hard to get to the actual point.

[Exelia]

Really, because Nan was more or less arguing millennials was in general inferior compared to every previous generation.

90% of Tumblr is porn. 9% is fandom. The rest is memes about "omigawd offended".

Yet again something confined to college campuses.

I have been to Tumblr, and can confirm the majority of it is porn, fan fiction, and porns of fan fiction. So it isn't as bad as people on YouTube make it out to be.

Yeah, the 1% of super offended feminists are probably not even real accounts at this point. 4chan is notorious for astroturfing.

[Gauthier]

Really, because Nan was more or less arguing millennials was in general inferior compared to every previous generation.

90% of Tumblr is porn. 9% is fandom. The rest is memes about "omigawd offended".

Yet again something confined to college campuses.

I have been to Tumblr, and can confirm the majority of it is porn, fan fiction, and porns of fan fiction. So it isn't as bad as people on YouTube make it out to be.

You'd think if Tumblr was a bastion of right-thinking that everyone frothes about there wouldn't even be so much as a single porn site, much less 90%.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I didn't see that in Nathicana's post.

But yeah. We did deal. And we've got absolutely nothing on our grandparent's generation. Those folks were fething hard core in their ability to dust themselves off, do what was needed, and get the fuck on with things. Again, not perfect, but we really have lost some outstanding ethics over the years. If you wonder why some older people look at some of the younger ones with disgust and just shake their head? It's likely because they cannot believe that all their hard work and sacrifice has gone to enable the sort of whining excuse-making lack of responsibility and accountability that goes on these days. I find myself doing it too, and I'm not old yet, dammit.

It was admittedly hard to get to the actual point.

There is some truth there, though. But it isn't fair to say it is only millennials. There's people of my generation (I was born in the 80s) who also try not to be held accountable for the mistakes they make. Who make excuses and whine. I think this is more a symptom of our society as it is today, than it is of particular generations.