The death penalty, should it be used more?

[Zoice]

Yes but against homosexuals. For they are an abomination to mankind

I think it's a sexual degeneracy but death is way too far.

Both of you are shamefully ignorant.

[The Prosperous Peoples]

I think it's a sexual degeneracy but death is way too far.

Both of you are shamefully ignorant.

And you're all terrible. Now, go back to original topic. This ain't about sexual preferences, and you know it.

[Threlizdun]

I think it's time for a hypothetical before this turns into a flammenwerfer-grade thread.

You are a judge presiding over the homicide trial of a man of indistinct ethnicity or race. Supposing you're not a self-hating whatever you are, just insert your own. The man found his wife and the victim in flagrante delecto and, in a rage, gunned the man down. After he was booked, he was as calm and presentable as he ever could be. Until that point he was a model citizen with maybe a parking ticket to his name. He has not been determined mentally ill by an impartial diagnostician and it seems by all accounts that this man will not present a danger to the community if he were to be released.

What's his verdict?

I would be doubtful that such immediate evaluation of safety could be given at such an early date. Place him in a rehabilitation center to explain the harmful effects of his actions, work on anger management issues to prevent this from happening again, and if they will allow it, have him speak with the family of the lost to further help them empathize with the victim. Ensure frequent opportunities for interaction with others and work to maintain his job and social life if possible. When he is deemed safe to re-enter society, allow him to do so. Require regular anger management courses for at least a few years following the event to ensure he stays healthy.

[Roski]

[...]on the serious though, I don't think one guy with a 9mm pistol actually costs a whole lot when doing the executions, right?

I can't imagine what mentally sound person would volunteer for that occupation.

you can always find someone to do something...

[The Kievan People]

I think it's time for a hypothetical before this turns into a flammenwerfer-grade thread.

You are a judge presiding over the homicide trial of a man of indistinct ethnicity or race. Supposing you're not a self-hating whatever you are, just insert your own. The man found his wife and the victim in flagrante delecto and, in a rage, gunned the man down. After he was booked, he was as calm and presentable as he ever could be. Until that point he was a model citizen with maybe a parking ticket to his name. He has not been determined mentally ill by an impartial diagnostician and it seems by all accounts that this man will not present a danger to the community if he were to be released.

What's his verdict?

Life, in a minimum security facility.

With possibility of parole.

[Zoice]

I think it's time for a hypothetical before this turns into a flammenwerfer-grade thread.

You are a judge presiding over the homicide trial of a man of indistinct ethnicity or race. Supposing you're not a self-hating whatever you are, just insert your own. The man found his wife and the victim in flagrante delecto and, in a rage, gunned the man down. After he was booked, he was as calm and presentable as he ever could be. Until that point he was a model citizen with maybe a parking ticket to his name. He has not been determined mentally ill by an impartial diagnostician and it seems by all accounts that this man will not present a danger to the community if he were to be released.

What's his verdict?

I would be doubtful that such immediate evaluation of safety could be given at such an early date. Place him in a rehabilitation center to explain the harmful effects of his actions, work on anger management issues to prevent this from happening again, and if they will allow it, have him speak with the family of the lost to further help them empathize with the victim. Ensure frequent opportunities for interaction with others and work to maintain his job and social life if possible. When he is deemed safe to re-enter society, allow him to do so. Require regular anger management courses for at least a few years following the event to ensure he stays healthy.

Sounds good to me.

[Roski]

I can't imagine what mentally sound person would volunteer for that occupation.

That's why they do the whole random bullet thing, so nobody knows who fired the kill shot.

To answer Roski, a firing squad probably would be the cheapest form of execution. But via the powers of bureaucracy it still probably costs a metric fuckton.

So if you could get rid of the unnecessary bereaucracy, could you make it cheaper?

[Alvecia]

That's why they do the whole random bullet thing, so nobody knows who fired the kill shot.

To answer Roski, a firing squad probably would be the cheapest form of execution. But via the powers of bureaucracy it still probably costs a metric fuckton.

So if you could get rid of the unnecessary bereaucracy, could you make it cheaper?

That's a big if.

[Roski]

So if you could get rid of the unnecessary bereaucracy, could you make it cheaper?

That's a big if.

Not necessarily. You could shove it through saying "hey look cheaper we'll fund your thing if you vote for it with all the saved money!"

[Ifreann]

That's why they do the whole random bullet thing, so nobody knows who fired the kill shot.

To answer Roski, a firing squad probably would be the cheapest form of execution. But via the powers of bureaucracy it still probably costs a metric fuckton.

So if you could get rid of the unnecessary bereaucracy, could you make it cheaper?

You could make the death penalty cheaper by not bothering to hold a trial at all and just shooting whoever the responding officers reckon did it.

[Alvecia]

That's a big if.

Not necessarily. You could shove it through saying "hey look cheaper we'll fund your thing if you vote for it with all the saved money!"

Which itself would be something of a bureaucratic undertaking.

[European Socialist Republic]

So if you could get rid of the unnecessary bereaucracy, could you make it cheaper?

You could make the death penalty cheaper by not bothering to hold a trial at all and just shooting whoever the responding officers reckon did it.

A trial? Pfft, such bureaucratic nonsense!

[Conscentia]

I can't imagine what mentally sound person would volunteer for that occupation.

That's why they do the whole random bullet thing, so nobody knows who fired the kill shot.

Roski said "one guy".

To answer Roski, a firing squad probably would be the cheapest form of execution. But via the powers of bureaucracy it still probably costs a metric fuckton.

I can conceive of cheaper methods. They don't kill as fast though.

[Roski]

So if you could get rid of the unnecessary bereaucracy, could you make it cheaper?

You could make the death penalty cheaper by not bothering to hold a trial at all and just shooting whoever the responding officers reckon did it.

The trial is present on for both sentencing and execution, that's not entirely where I was going with it.

[Saldinado]

Though I support the death penalty, I believe that life in prison is far more worst than the death penalty. While in prison, you might not be able to forget the reason why you're in prison, whether it was murder, rape, robbery, or anything else, your past might come back to replay itself in your head, and you will have to live with what you've did for the rest of your life, whereas the death penalty, you can just live for oh so long before you're killed, and you can forget what you've done.

[Ifreann]

You could make the death penalty cheaper by not bothering to hold a trial at all and just shooting whoever the responding officers reckon did it.

A trial? Pfft, such bureaucratic nonsense!

Just go Judge Dredd.

[Roski]

That's why they do the whole random bullet thing, so nobody knows who fired the kill shot.

Roski said "one guy".

To answer Roski, a firing squad probably would be the cheapest form of execution. But via the powers of bureaucracy it still probably costs a metric fuckton.

I can conceive of cheaper methods. They don't kill as fast though.

for the price of a nuclear missile, you can wipe the entirety of the filthy masses off of the planet

just fire it at Russia or America, they'll do the work.

7 billion people, all for a couple billion dollars.

Since, according to the holy bible, all of us are with sin

(no I don't believe this, don't do it, NSA go away)

[Ever Victorious Iron Willed Commanders]

Yes but against homosexuals. For they are an abomination to mankind

http://weknowmemes.com/2012/05/imagine-how-stupid-you-are-going-to-look-in-40-years/

[Conscentia]

Roski said "one guy".

I can conceive of cheaper methods. They don't kill as fast though.

for the price of a nuclear missile, you can wipe the entirety of the filthy masses off of the planet
just fire it at Russia or America, they'll do the work.
7 billion people, all for a couple billion dollars.
Since, according to the holy bible, all of us are with sin
(no I don't believe this, don't do it, NSA go away)

[Kazarogkai]

I think it's time for a hypothetical before this turns into a flammenwerfer-grade thread.

You are a judge presiding over the homicide trial of a man of indistinct ethnicity or race. Supposing you're not a self-hating whatever you are, just insert your own. The man found his wife and the victim in flagrante delecto and, in a rage, gunned the man down. After he was booked, he was as calm and presentable as he ever could be. Until that point he was a model citizen with maybe a parking ticket to his name. He has not been determined mentally ill by an impartial diagnostician and it seems by all accounts that this man will not present a danger to the community if he were to be released.

What's his verdict?

Life, in a minimum security facility.

With possibility of parole.

It would be up to the judges(I prefer tribunals) to decide but ultimately I would consider this as unjustified and intentional homicide and as such he will face face exile and subsequent outlawry for the next 100 years. If he returns before then he will be treated as a wolf to society and killed on sight.

[Kazarogkai]

I think it's time for a hypothetical before this turns into a flammenwerfer-grade thread.

You are a judge presiding over the homicide trial of a man of indistinct ethnicity or race. Supposing you're not a self-hating whatever you are, just insert your own. The man found his wife and the victim in flagrante delecto and, in a rage, gunned the man down. After he was booked, he was as calm and presentable as he ever could be. Until that point he was a model citizen with maybe a parking ticket to his name. He has not been determined mentally ill by an impartial diagnostician and it seems by all accounts that this man will not present a danger to the community if he were to be released.

What's his verdict?

15 years' prison (actual time) medium security, lifetime parole.

This person is probably not far from a useful citizen, just got unlucky to be put in a particularly aggravating situation. No particular danger to the public, could easily be reintegrated tomorrow, the sentence is just deterrent and in case the crime was more premeditated that it seems.

I rather execute the type like this:

You are a judge presiding over the rape trial of a young man of indistinct ethnicity or race. Supposing you're not a self-hating whatever you are, just insert your own. The man never finished school, having stopped attending in his early teens. It was at this time he picked up his first dozen convictions for petty theft. As he grew older he picked up further convictions for thefts of increasing value and assault with and without bodily harm, culminating in four felony convictions for which he served a combined five years in prison. Each subsequent felony was committed while he was paroled and was quickly caught. He has never been in regular employment. He is wanted for default of child support. He requires assistance reading papers related to his case. He is often unable to understand his attorney. His presentation is court is either lethargic and surly or aggressive and incoherent.

No horrible crime, just a useless person who is certain to cause more harm to innocents if placed anywhere other than solitary. Five strikes and you're out.

This young man is clearly incapable and unwilling to participate as a functioning member of society and considering the heinous nature of the crime he shall face exile and subsequent outlawry for the next 100 years. Same conditions as before, if he returns he will be hunted down and summarily executed.

[Anima Gentem]

I think it's time for a hypothetical before this turns into a flammenwerfer-grade thread.

You are a judge presiding over the homicide trial of a man of indistinct ethnicity or race. Supposing you're not a self-hating whatever you are, just insert your own. The man found his wife and the victim in flagrante delecto and, in a rage, gunned the man down. After he was booked, he was as calm and presentable as he ever could be. Until that point he was a model citizen with maybe a parking ticket to his name. He has not been determined mentally ill by an impartial diagnostician and it seems by all accounts that this man will not present a danger to the community if he were to be released.

What's his verdict?

Life in prison. I'm glad to see you've all taken this out of my hands but I still plan on popping in from time to time. But why imprisonment despite my avocation for the death penalty? Well let's see. This man may not have any kind of indications that he's mentally ill but let's review the facts. This man appears normal under normal circumstances. But the moment he's put under some pressure he winds up gunning down a man. What's to happen if he was put in another pressuring situation? Will he gun another person down? Just because no problems might be present doesn't mean there aren't any. All accounts may say he's not a threat. But the right situation proves otherwise. He already will be tried for imprisonment for life or the death penalty. However the one thing that stays my hand in sentencing the death penalty is his previous record. Of which there is none. So I say he can be allowed to get away with the life sentence. But to make sure my stance is still known, if anything else was on his record, any kind of other crimes or mental debilitation, his sentence wouldn't be so kind

[Narland]

So obviously the death penalty is still allowed within the United States. I've done a bit of looking over and come to conclusion. I believed it should be utilized more. Now I'm not some nut that thinks we should use this penalty on every single offence. Murder is an obvious one. However, I believe the punishment can be situational. Many murders are tried by the death penalty but most are convicted to a life or prison. Any seemingly pointless murder can definitely be judged on the death penalty. I'll let you imagine any other situations that may or may not call for the death penalty. There's also child molesters, domestic violence offenders, assailants resulting in extreme injury. These all I say should be tried by the death penalty. Enough of this 15 to life crap. What is the point? Taxpayers fund prisons where prisoners live pretty decent lives. Always guaranteed their meals, cable TV, and of course they're cared for when other inmates decide to assault each other. Why allow the worst of the worst to these luxuries for their crimes. And what if they get out? I hate to say it but a murderer isn't going to find themselves very accepted in society, regardless of reason. It wouldn't be surprising if their frustration returned to a more violent path. Now let's tone down to the less serious crimes. Theft is a big one. Now I don't believe theft has to result in the death penalty but there has to be a limit. I say once someone has been imprisoned 3 times on counts of theft, now remember it has to be a big theft to have cause for imprisonment, it's time to implement the death penalty. These people don't seem to want to learn from their mistakes so why continued to pay for their luxurious living for the next 5 years when they'll just get out and start again. I know there's much more but this is just the basis for the argument. Tell me if you believe the death penalty should be used more.

Yes, yes it should, but...

The question assumes several things that must first be answered.

Firstly, is capital punishment ever justified? Then, under what circumstnce? If so, by whose authority? And eventually; by what means and to what end?

I get stuck at part 3.

Only a just system has the moral authority to rightly condemn a perpetrator and convict of an act so heinous that ultimate sacrifice must needs be made. Our criminal justice system has too many problems at the moment to allow for more authority to incarcerate and mortify. Thanks to advances in coronary science it is known that far too many have been wrongly convicted. Various branches of government have made it increasingly easier to convict more people by less substantive means (especially since the procedural evidence " reforms" in the 1930s and 1950s).

I would like to see us return to full 4th Amendment due process such that every check and balance is reinstated to protect each and every indivdiual from false incrimination and misfeasance under the color of authority. A return to the belief that it is better for our courts to let 10 guilty people go free than to wrongly convict 1 innocent person should be shouted from the rooftops. Despising positive application of policy that has replaced negative application of law should be routinely manifest. That is the point that I would be certain in stating that the death penalty should be used more.

[Anima Gentem]

Yes, yes it should, but...

The question assumes several things that must first be answered.

Firstly, is capital punishment ever justified? Then, under what circumstnce? If so, by whose authority? And eventually; by what means and to what end?

I get stuck at part 3.

Only a just system has the moral authority to rightly condemn a perpetrator and convict of an act so heinous that ultimate sacrifice must needs be made. Our criminal justice system has too many problems at the moment to allow for more authority to incarcerate and mortify. Thanks to advances in coronary science it is known that far too many have been wrongly convicted. Various branches of government have made it increasingly easier to convict more people by less substantive means (especially since the procedural evidence " reforms" in the 1930s and 1950s).

I would like to see us return to full 4th Amendment due process such that every check and balance is reinstated to protect each and every indivdiual from false incrimination and misfeasance under the color of authority. A return to the belief that it is better for our courts to let 10 guilty people go free than to wrongly convict 1 innocent person should be shouted from the rooftops. Despising positive application of policy that has replaced negative application of law should be routinely manifest. That is the point that I would be certain in stating that the death penalty should be used more.

I'm afraid I can't agree. While yes it's a terrible tragedy to convict one wrong, it's even worse to let so many go. If we would just reform the system to be simpler, then we wouldn't have so many problems. Is capital punishment ever justified? Absolutely I say. Under cases of murder, rape, severe abuse. Also remember I'm usually these terms broadly so they especially apply to sub categories I'm not covering. Under whose authority? Mine, the state, the government, whoever the hell it needs to be. What means? A simple bullet will do. The end is self-explanatory. Everyone says how many innocents have been convicted. But look at how many more guilty have been convicted. I know no one is happy with my answer that nothing is perfect and that that's just how it is. But it is. No other answer will do. Let's just be happy we're in this wonderful age of technology that even if someone does find themselves in one of those cases that can be tried by death penalty, it's slowly but surely getting rarer that we're wrong

[Wallenburg]

No, your other left!