Legalize it All?

[Gim]

Sure, none of us are arguing for that.

It's the same basic etiquette as not drinking in public.

I see no issue with allowing drug users to smoke drugs in the already existing designated smoking areas.

Agreed.

Yes, I do, too. I have no concern or animosity with that.

[Lydenburg]

The notion that legalising stuff like dagga would cut down on its use or drive the criminal elements that thrive on smuggling it out of business is kak.

The theory that "soft drugs" in no way harms the user is kak. Different drugs affect people in different ways. No one individual's body chemistry is 100% the same. If you lose the proverbial luck of the draw say hello to bad trips.

Every time I hear this tired old argument of universal legalisation - usually espoused by serious recreational drug users themselves, like our OP - I am reminded that some suburbanites living in quiet cookie cutter houses in the West happily toke up a few times a day and harm nobody. But not everybody is so responsible. Child soldiers, Congolese cannibal cults, and xenophobic mobs elsewhere all self-administer liberal quantities of "hard drugs" before going on murderous rampages. It's even considered a tradition of indigenous warfare in many parts of Africa, as it removes inhibition towards committing the vilest atrocities.

No, legalising everything is not the answer.

[Valystria]

The notion that legalising stuff like dagga would cut down on its use or drive the criminal elements that thrive on smuggling it out of business is kak.

The theory that "soft drugs" in no way harms the user is kak. Different drugs affect people in different ways. No one individual's body chemistry is 100% the same. If you lose the proverbial luck of the draw say hello to bad trips.

Every time I hear this tired old argument of universal legalisation - usually espoused by serious recreational drug users themselves, like our OP - I am reminded that some suburbanites living in quiet cookie cutter houses in the West happily toke up a few times a day and harm nobody. But not everybody is so responsible. Child soldiers, Congolese cannibal cults, and xenophobic mobs elsewhere all self-administer liberal quantities of "hard drugs" before going on murderous rampages. It's even considered a tradition of indigenous warfare in many parts of Africa, as it removes inhibition towards committing the vilest atrocities.

No, legalising everything is not the answer.

Yes it is.

In case you haven't noticed, prohibition hasn't stopped drug use. It's only increased it and brought a multitude of other problems that exist only because of prohibition.

[Ostroeuropa]

The notion that legalising stuff like dagga would cut down on its use or drive the criminal elements that thrive on smuggling it out of business is kak.

The theory that "soft drugs" in no way harms the user is kak. Different drugs affect people in different ways. No one individual's body chemistry is 100% the same. If you lose the proverbial luck of the draw say hello to bad trips.

Every time I hear this tired old argument of universal legalisation - usually espoused by serious recreational drug users themselves, like our OP - I am reminded that some suburbanites living in quiet cookie cutter houses in the West happily toke up a few times a day and harm nobody. But not everybody is so responsible. Child soldiers, Congolese cannibal cults, and xenophobic mobs elsewhere all self-administer liberal quantities of "hard drugs" before going on murderous rampages. It's even considered a tradition of indigenous warfare in many parts of Africa, as it removes inhibition towards committing the vilest atrocities.

No, legalising everything is not the answer.

I'm not sure the problem with child soldiers, cannibal cults, and mob justice is the drugs they are using.
I think they may just be using drugs because it's their hobby, whereas being a scourge on humanity is their job.

You may as well be ranting about how we'll have hordes of musicians, pizza delivery boys, and politicians if we legalize drugs.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

No, legalising everything is not the answer.

Yes, it is.

Also, bad trips are easily avoided by 1) not taking psychedelics if you have any mental issues (even something like anxiety), and 2) being in a good state of mind. Even if you end up having one, oh well. It's not gonna hurt you. It can be pretty scary, but you'll come out fine.

[Lydenburg]

No, legalising everything is not the answer.

Yes, it is.

Also, bad trips are easily avoided by 1) not taking psychedelics if you have any mental issues (even something like anxiety), and 2) being in a good state of mind. Even if you end up having one, oh well. It's not gonna hurt you. It can be pretty scary, but you'll come out fine.

I've seen people react to the same substance in morbidly different ways. Surely you've seen it too. You know what I'm talking about right?

Lekker. Now, I'm trying to reconcile this with the fact that you just told me that the bad trip was the user's fault. Because apparently he wasn't mentally stable enough to be ingesting.

I blame the drug, you blame the person.

[Valystria]

No, legalising everything is not the answer.

Yes, it is.

Also, bad trips are easily avoided by 1) not taking psychedelics if you have any mental issues (even something like anxiety), and 2) being in a good state of mind. Even if you end up having one, oh well. It's not gonna hurt you. It can be pretty scary, but you'll come out fine.

Having a sitter is an option too.

About not taking psychedelics if having (unmedicated) mental health issues, that goes for drug use in general.

Yes, it is.

Also, bad trips are easily avoided by 1) not taking psychedelics if you have any mental issues (even something like anxiety), and 2) being in a good state of mind. Even if you end up having one, oh well. It's not gonna hurt you. It can be pretty scary, but you'll come out fine.

I've seen people react to the same substance in morbidly different ways. Surely you've seen it too. You know what I'm talking about right?

Lekker. Now, I'm trying to reconcile this with the fact that you just told me that the bad trip was the user's fault. Because apparently he wasn't mentally stable enough to be ingesting.

I blame the drug, you blame the person.

And... people with such issues shouldn't be partaking in drug use. The drug isn't at fault. Irresponsible usage is.

[Lydenburg]

The notion that legalising stuff like dagga would cut down on its use or drive the criminal elements that thrive on smuggling it out of business is kak.

The theory that "soft drugs" in no way harms the user is kak. Different drugs affect people in different ways. No one individual's body chemistry is 100% the same. If you lose the proverbial luck of the draw say hello to bad trips.

Every time I hear this tired old argument of universal legalisation - usually espoused by serious recreational drug users themselves, like our OP - I am reminded that some suburbanites living in quiet cookie cutter houses in the West happily toke up a few times a day and harm nobody. But not everybody is so responsible. Child soldiers, Congolese cannibal cults, and xenophobic mobs elsewhere all self-administer liberal quantities of "hard drugs" before going on murderous rampages. It's even considered a tradition of indigenous warfare in many parts of Africa, as it removes inhibition towards committing the vilest atrocities.

No, legalising everything is not the answer.

I'm not sure the problem with child soldiers, cannibal cults, and mob justice is the drugs they are using.
I think they may just be using drugs because it's their hobby, whereas being a scourge on humanity is their job.

You may as well be ranting about how we'll have hordes of musicians, pizza delivery boys, and politicians if we legalize drugs.

It's not a hobby. It's tradition that predates colonial times.

In Southern Africa, Zulu impis were expected to toke before battle. It supposedly turned them into fearless warriors that would keep attacking without fear, even if slaughtered in mass numbers by superior fighters or modern weapons like the Maxim gun. The Matabele in Zimbabwe took this a step further by smearing their bodies with some kind of crushed marijuana, which Zimbabwean historians Michael Raeburn and Lawrence Vambe tell us evoked a fear response in their opponents due to the unnatural sensations.

In the Congo, the dope was marketed by some clever witch doctors as possessing magical quantities that would protect the users from bullets. When an inexperienced user ingested a great deal of it, he believed himself invincible. In his book Congo Mercenary Mike Hoare said they were incapable of being reasoned with or persuaded to surrender while on dagga.

Wars and uprisings in this region are invariably linked to the use of various drugs as a pre-battle ritual considered almost sacred. On battlefields and in mobs people don't toke up for fun.

[Valystria]

I'm not sure the problem with child soldiers, cannibal cults, and mob justice is the drugs they are using.
I think they may just be using drugs because it's their hobby, whereas being a scourge on humanity is their job.

You may as well be ranting about how we'll have hordes of musicians, pizza delivery boys, and politicians if we legalize drugs.

It's not a hobby. It's tradition that predates colonial times.

In Southern Africa, Zulu impis were expected to toke before battle. It supposedly turned them into fearless warriors that would keep attacking without fear, even if slaughtered in mass numbers by superior fighters or modern weapons like the Maxim gun. The Matabele in Zimbabwe took this a step further by smearing their bodies with some kind of crushed marijuana, which Zimbabwean historians Michael Raeburn and Lawrence Vambe tell us evoked a fear response in their opponents due to the unnatural sensations.

In the Congo, the dope was marketed by some clever witch doctors as possessing magical quantities that would protect the users from bullets. When an inexperienced user ingested a great deal of it, he believed himself invincible. In his book Congo Mercenary Mike Hoare said they were incapable of being reasoned with or persuaded to surrender while on dagga.

Wars and uprisings in this region are invariably linked to the use of various drugs as a pre-battle ritual considered almost sacred. On battlefields and in mobs people don't toke up for fun.

And these are bad people who happen to use drugs while doing bad things.

They're going to behave unethically even without the drugs. They were unethical before it and will remain so without. By your own description, these groups merely integrated drug use into their violent customs.

Do some people use drugs for messed up reasons? Sure. Most of us don't. Unethical behaviours are what should be criminalized, not drug use.

[Greater North American Union]

The notion that legalising stuff like dagga would cut down on its use or drive the criminal elements that thrive on smuggling it out of business is kak.

Well we're not worried about stuff like that in the West.

The theory that "soft drugs" in no way harms the user is kak. Different drugs affect people in different ways. No one individual's body chemistry is 100% the same. If you lose the proverbial luck of the draw say hello to bad trips.

A bad trip, presuming you're discussing LSD or Psilocybin, has killed literally nobody. It's unpleasant, but it's not dangerous medically speaking.

Every time I hear this tired old argument of universal legalisation - usually espoused by serious recreational drug users themselves, like our OP

I'd rather drug users made our laws than people who don't know what they're talking about.

I am reminded that some suburbanites living in quiet cookie cutter houses in the West happily toke up a few times a day and harm nobody. But not everybody is so responsible. Child soldiers, Congolese cannibal cults, and xenophobic mobs elsewhere all self-administer liberal quantities of "hard drugs" before going on murderous rampages. It's even considered a tradition of indigenous warfare in many parts of Africa, as it removes inhibition towards committing the vilest atrocities.

No, legalising everything is not the answer.

Great, but those issues don't affect the US or most of the civilized world in general, and the drugs are a symptom, not the cause. The cause being that people in those parts of Africa and South America are mostly uneducated, superstitious tribals who are easily manipulated and abused by warlords. That's a problem with unstable, impotent government and general 3rd world backwardness.

[Lydenburg]

I've seen people react to the same substance in morbidly different ways. Surely you've seen it too. You know what I'm talking about right?

Lekker. Now, I'm trying to reconcile this with the fact that you just told me that the bad trip was the user's fault. Because apparently he wasn't mentally stable enough to be ingesting.

I blame the drug, you blame the person.

And... people with such issues shouldn't be partaking in drug use. The drug isn't at fault. Irresponsible usage is.

I want to make absolutely certain I'm understanding you here:

if somebody has a bad trip, it's always their own fault.

[Valystria]

Every time I hear this tired old argument of universal legalisation - usually espoused by serious recreational drug users themselves, like our OP

I'd rather drug users made our laws than people who don't know what they're talking about.

That would make a lot of sense yes. It would be a significant improvement to have open drug users making laws.

And... people with such issues shouldn't be partaking in drug use. The drug isn't at fault. Irresponsible usage is.

I want to make absolutely certain I'm understanding you here:

if somebody has a bad trip, it's always their own fault.

Not always, no.

Sometimes someone may take a psychedelic at the suggestion of an acquaintance. It may turn out to be an unwise suggestion.

But generally there are various steps one can take to reduce the likeliness of a session going badly. Even if someone follows every procedure, they may well end up having a bad trip anyway but that's fine if no harm comes of it.

Psychedelic use isn't for everyone, especially not people with mental health issues. For the sake of simplicity, if someone has a terrible experience from psychedelic use it can be assumed that it was from irresponsible usage on their end. It's generally for reasons such as that they had mental health issues meaning they shouldn't have been using, dosing beyond their comfort zone, not having a sitter with them, having a session while going through emotional difficulties, or taking other drugs at the same time.

So, for the most part, yes, we can say it's usually someone's own fault if it goes badly.

[Korhal IVV]

If your girlfriend left you, don't waste money on drugs. Move on and find another better girl.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

If your girlfriend left you, don't waste money on drugs. Move on and find another better girl.

...what the fuck are you talking about?

[Washington Resistance Army]

If your girlfriend left you, don't waste money on drugs. Move on and find another better girl.

If your girlfriend left you, car bomb the bitch. *nods*

If your girlfriend left you, don't waste money on drugs. Move on and find another better girl.

...what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm assuming he's trying to dissuade people from doing drugs, it's a pretty piss-poor job though.

[Korhal IVV]

If your girlfriend left you, don't waste money on drugs. Move on and find another better girl.

If your girlfriend left you, car bomb the bitch. *nods*

Murderer

*Edit- Look at this picture lol

http://imgur.com/ksJSK3Z

666 posts on this thread >_<

[Alvecia]

For those against legalisation/decriminalisation, would it not be logically consistent to then place alcohol under the same restrictions as all other drugs?
By which I mean, assign it a class and treat it accordingly.

[Alvecia]

If your girlfriend left you, car bomb the bitch. *nods*

Murderer

*Edit- Look at this picture lol

http://imgur.com/ksJSK3Z

666 posts on this thread >_<

Nothing incriminating in this particular pic, but in future I'd advise against posting screenshots that show your tabs bar

[Korhal IVV]

For those against legalisation/decriminalisation, would it not be logically consistent to then place alcohol under the same restrictions as all other drugs?
By which I mean, assign it a class and treat it accordingly.

Alcohol might be allowed for cultural things... But not for when you are... Devastated. It doesn't really help...

[Uxupox]

Yea I'm all for that too as it classified by the NIH as a drug intoxicating substance (Not talking about the chemical compound OH please). If drinking pure alcohol substances develops into a trend it can lead to alcoholism which will fuck up your ability to work, your interpersonal relationships and obviously your health specifically your liver.

[Alvecia]

For those against legalisation/decriminalisation, would it not be logically consistent to then place alcohol under the same restrictions as all other drugs?
By which I mean, assign it a class and treat it accordingly.

Alcohol might be allowed for cultural things... But not for when you are... Devastated. It doesn't really help...

You mean like communion perhaps switch to Ribena.

[Korhal IVV]

Alcohol might be allowed for cultural things... But not for when you are... Devastated. It doesn't really help...

You mean like communion perhaps switch to Ribena.

Yes

[Prussia-Steinbach]

For those against legalisation/decriminalisation, would it not be logically consistent to then place alcohol under the same restrictions as all other drugs?
By which I mean, assign it a class and treat it accordingly.

Alcohol might be allowed for cultural things... But not for when you are... Devastated. It doesn't really help...

So you'd allow, say, Rastafarians to partake in their sacred herb?

Also, why do you think you are such a good, perfect parental figure that can decide when you are and are not allowed psychoactive substances?

[Lydenburg]

Murderer

*Edit- Look at this picture lol

http://imgur.com/ksJSK3Z

666 posts on this thread >_<

Nothing incriminating in this particular pic, but in future I'd advise against posting screenshots that show your tabs bar

+1.

Aye you don't want to end up like that (in)famous oke who accidentally posted all his own porn tabs on NSG. The one with a French and plaid fetish.

[Korhal IVV]

Nothing incriminating in this particular pic, but in future I'd advise against posting screenshots that show your tabs bar

+1.

Aye you don't want to end up like that (in)famous oke who accidentally posted all his own porn tabs on NSG. The one with a French and plaid fetish.

Lel