Should illegals be given the right to Vote

[Geilinor]

The host state is not responsible for that. The home state is.

All states are, especially the US. The US believes that rights are god given, not state given. Therefore that argument is moot.

No, the US does not believe that. God and the government are separate and should be separate.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Not necessarily, but the 'sovereign citizens' are essentially people which give law enforcement officials and governments more troubles than they're worth. They claim to be a "Citizen of the World" and thus need not obey the law. And I despise those people...

The simple truth is, If you are on American Soil, you obey American Law. No matter what your nationality is...

Nationality has nothing to do with it, and if the answer is "not necessarily" then you shouldn't have brought it up.

To be fair, though, I have given law enforcement a shitload of trouble throughout the years, and I reject the concept of nationstates. So I guess he does despise me, though I don't support the movement he refers to.

[Northern Freikur]

Not necessarily, but the 'sovereign citizens' are essentially people which give law enforcement officials and governments more troubles than they're worth. They claim to be a "Citizen of the World" and thus need not obey the law. And I despise those people...

The simple truth is, If you are on American Soil, you obey American Law. No matter what your nationality is...

Nationality has nothing to do with it, and if the answer is "not necessarily" then you shouldn't have brought it up.

Either way, would you want a terrorist voting for your next president? This is why there is an immigration process.

[The Snazzylands]

Voting in any election should be restricted to citizens only. Illegals are by definition not citizens.

[Northern Freikur]

Nationality has nothing to do with it, and if the answer is "not necessarily" then you shouldn't have brought it up.

To be fair, though, I have given law enforcement a ----load of trouble throughout the years, and I reject the concept of nationstates. So I guess he does despise me, though I don't support the movement he refers to.

I look forward to arresting you once I become a state trooper.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

All states are, especially the US. The US believes that rights are god given, not state given. Therefore that argument is moot.

No, the US does not believe that. God and the government are separate and should be separate.

No. Church and the government are separate. Not the concept of God and the government.

The concept of "natural rights" was one of the founding ideas of the Revolution and the country. The most influential Founders, Jefferson in particular, were quite fond of Lockean political theory. Those ideas have continued to this day; legislators even now refer to "inalienable, God-given rights."

I think it's all bullshit, obviously, but that's the truth of it.

[NERVUN]

Nationality has nothing to do with it, and if the answer is "not necessarily" then you shouldn't have brought it up.

Either way, would you want a terrorist voting for your next president? This is why there is an immigration process.

*sighs* Okaaay, ignoring the Constitutional clause demanding that one be native born, really? We're gonna have some ISIS member come to the US... somehow illegally, manage to build a political base, and run and get elected as POTUS?

There's some 12 million illegals in the US... Out of a population of over 300 million...

Yeah, that's scary.

[NERVUN]

To be fair, though, I have given law enforcement a ----load of trouble throughout the years, and I reject the concept of nationstates. So I guess he does despise me, though I don't support the movement he refers to.

I look forward to arresting you once I become a state trooper.

*mod hat on* Enough.

[Northern Freikur]

Either way, would you want a terrorist voting for your next president? This is why there is an immigration process.

*sighs* Okaaay, ignoring the Constitutional clause demanding that one be native born, really? We're gonna have some ISIS member come to the US... somehow illegally, manage to build a political base, and run and get elected as POTUS?

There's some 12 million illegals in the US... Out of a population of over 300 million...

Yeah, that's scary.

I said "Voting", not "Running"

[NERVUN]

*sighs* Okaaay, ignoring the Constitutional clause demanding that one be native born, really? We're gonna have some ISIS member come to the US... somehow illegally, manage to build a political base, and run and get elected as POTUS?

There's some 12 million illegals in the US... Out of a population of over 300 million...

Yeah, that's scary.

I said "Voting", not "Running"

True enough, my apologies.

Again, see 12 million in a pop of over 300 million.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Deleted in deference to NERV.

[Olthar]

Anyone living in a place should be able to vote on the laws that govern them.

[Hugdom]

Nationality has nothing to do with it, and if the answer is "not necessarily" then you shouldn't have brought it up.

Either way, would you want a terrorist voting for your next president? This is why there is an immigration process.

Oh boy, you know there are citizens that are terrorists as well right? That's also sort of how almost every single revolution started.

[Northern Freikur]

I said "Voting", not "Running"

True enough, my apologies.

Again, see 12 million in a pop of over 300 million.

12 million is a big number though... and most of them avoid "The Law", so...

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Either way, would you want a terrorist voting for your next president?

What if I said yes?

[Hugdom]

No, the US does not believe that. God and the government are separate and should be separate.

No. Church and the government are separate. Not the concept of God and the government.

The concept of "natural rights" was one of the founding ideas of the Revolution and the country. The most influential Founders, Jefferson in particular, were quite fond of Lockean political theory. Those ideas have continued to this day; legislators even now refer to "inalienable, God-given rights."

I think it's all bullshit, obviously, but that's the truth of it.

This

[Northern Freikur]

Either way, would you want a terrorist voting for your next president?

What if I said yes?

Strangely, I'd believe you.

[Ashkera]

Alright, fine,

Re: Citizen duties: it varies from state to state.

For example, some states impose mandatory military service for citizens, but might not for permanent resident aliens.

But really, this is about illegal immigrants. Legal immigrants voting is a different kettle of fish.

[NERVUN]

True enough, my apologies.

Again, see 12 million in a pop of over 300 million.

12 million is a big number though... and most of them avoid "The Law", so...

In a crowd of 300 you think 12 is big?

If all 12 were a. concentrated in a state with a small population and b. all voting for a single candidate and c. that vote would somehow tip the electoral college (See small state), sure.

But my friend, those odds are, as they say in the Bible, slim, son of none.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

What if I said yes?

Strangely, I'd believe you.

I am many things; a liar is not one of them.

Unless directed toward law enforcement.

[Olthar]

True enough, my apologies.

Again, see 12 million in a pop of over 300 million.

12 million is a big number though... and most of them avoid "The Law", so...

If 12 million seems big, then how about 4%? That work for you?

[Northern Freikur]

12 million is a big number though... and most of them avoid "The Law", so...

In a crowd of 300 you think 12 is big?

If all 12 were a. concentrated in a state with a small population and b. all voting for a single candidate and c. that vote would somehow tip the electoral college (See small state), sure.

But my friend, those odds are, as they say in the Bible, slim, son of none.

In a party of 300, if 12 were crashing, what would be the fallout of the situation...

[Northern Freikur]

12 million is a big number though... and most of them avoid "The Law", so...

If 12 million seems big, then how about 4%? That work for you?

In population stats, yes

[NERVUN]

Alright, fine,

Re: Citizen duties: it varies from state to state.

For example, some states impose mandatory military service for citizens, but might not for permanent resident aliens.

Ah! Of course!

Er, wait, the US (which right now is one of the few developed countries with a draft) excludes women, pacifists, and disabled from their lists... So, are women therefore not citizens?

And, honestly, why? Immigrants can and do join the US military (Many see it as a shortcut to permanent residency or citizenship) so... if we're just talking draft, that's easily fixed.

But really, this is about illegal immigrants. Legal immigrants voting is a different kettle of fish.

Not really, but then you would be ok with immigrants voting, just not illegal ones?

[NERVUN]

In a crowd of 300 you think 12 is big?

If all 12 were a. concentrated in a state with a small population and b. all voting for a single candidate and c. that vote would somehow tip the electoral college (See small state), sure.

But my friend, those odds are, as they say in the Bible, slim, son of none.

In a party of 300, if 12 were crashing, what would be the fallout of the situation...

Are they bringing drinks?

I highly doubt they could change the music.

Unless they brought something cool. I mean, you never know.