The General Car Thread.

[Petrolheadia]

Well, I gotta say the new Cadillacs handle better. But are also more unreliable.
The Aventador can't keep up, on the Lightning Lap, but it's because that is a technical course. On the Top Gear track, designed to push cars to the limit, the Z06 wasn't tested,,but if we get lower models of both brands (normal Corvette and a Huracan), the Lambo doesn't take shit from the Vette.
And the ST and RS are actually cars designed in Germany and tuned up in Britain.

New Cadillacs are considered "unreliable" because the CUE system is trash. And yes, it is pretty bad. Not horrific, but bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... _Lap_Times
How is Top Gear a more technical track when the Bugatti Veyron, a car with over 1,000 horsepower, is outrun by the Viper ACR and Nissan GTR?

I said the Top Gear track is an opposite of technical. It isn't technical. It's high speed, brutal, pushing to the limits. Maybe the Veyron's limits weren't far enough?

[GreatestBanks]

lol the corvette wasn't good
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... rison-test
>Z06 wins a comparison test against a 911 Turbo S and GTR Nismo
>Faster at Laguana Seca than almost all European sports cars other than the 918 and McLaren P1
>Pulls over 1.0 g on a skidpad with even the base model

>American tastes are washed out and cars are less sophisticated
Ferrari was the one buying magnetorheological dampers from GM, not the other way around. And yes, while using pushrod 6.2 Liter V8s in performance cars is "outdated," the LT-1 and LT-4 today are some of the best performance engines around.

Why are you bringing up the Z06, when we are talking about the Stingray?
And Laguna Seca is another technical track. The Top Gear track is better, because its high speed nature pushes cars to their absolute limits.
Plus, the "unsophisticated" comment was about steering feel.

Alright, let's talk about the Stingray.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... rison-test
Wins test against 911 Carrera S.

And your point was that American cars are useless if you wanted to go into a corner or have powerful brakings. If American cars do better on technical tracks with lots of corners and braking zones, that invalidates your points.

[GreatestBanks]

New Cadillacs are considered "unreliable" because the CUE system is trash. And yes, it is pretty bad. Not horrific, but bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... _Lap_Times
How is Top Gear a more technical track when the Bugatti Veyron, a car with over 1,000 horsepower, is outrun by the Viper ACR and Nissan GTR?

I said the Top Gear track is an opposite of technical. It isn't technical. It's high speed, brutal, pushing to the limits. Maybe the Veyron's limits weren't far enough?

I meant to say it was the opposite of technical* My bad there

How are the Veyron's limits not high enough? It had the highest top speed in the world at the time it was lapped (Second highest now to the Chiron) and had over 1,000 horsepower

[Petrolheadia]

Why are you bringing up the Z06, when we are talking about the Stingray?
And Laguna Seca is another technical track. The Top Gear track is better, because its high speed nature pushes cars to their absolute limits.
Plus, the "unsophisticated" comment was about steering feel.

Alright, let's talk about the Stingray.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... rison-test
Wins test against 911 Carrera S.

And your point was that American cars are useless if you wanted to go into a corner or have powerful brakings. If American cars do better on technical tracks with lots of corners and braking zones, that invalidates your points.

Wow. A Corvette managed to beat a Porsche. Happens. It does not mean all American cars are the best.

And I never said American cars were bad at that. I just said they aren't fun to drive.

[GreatestBanks]

The Celica design is a clear rip-off of the Ford Mustang.

The problem isn't the long hood/short deck design language used by the Japanese sports cars, that's just Front Engine Rear Drive sports car language, but the Celica is an outright rip-off of the mighty Mustang

Praise the almighty Mustang! The car that in the best-handling version can keep up with the Beetle's handling!
/end sarcasm

This will be unpopular, but, to me most Japanese sports cars of the 60s and very early 70s were somewhat dopey looking. The Celica was just a rip off the style of American sports car (long hood short deck well slanted windshield)

The S50/S54/S57 and C10 Skylines just look like an econ car design. The 240z to me looks like the Jag E-Type had sex with classic Mini cooper headlights and crapped out a bastard child.

I love the 60s/70s styling, and to me, the 240Z is one of the best looking cars.

However, I don't like the styling of the E-Type (front looks like a fish, side profile looks like a condom) and Citroen DS (it looks like a failed attempt to draw a Peugeot 504).

Hey the Charger R/T with the Hemi had something of a braking system.
''The Dodges were even more interesting and less predictable. The 318 stopped in an almost straight line in 147 feet; eight less than the best Marlin. This was with drums. The 383, also with drums, took eight feet more the same as the Marlin 6. No surprise so far. The Hemi-Charger with discs did the same test in an amazing 133 feet, despite its greater front-end weight.''*
*The stop was from 60-0 on a clean strip of road

The 1967 318 Charger event came close to 50/50 weight distribution.


http://www.motortrend.com/news/1967-marlin-charger/

American performance cars - because who wants to go around a corner or stop in a performance car?

http://www.automobilesreview.com/galler ... cat-03.jpg

I prefer not having huge repair bills and I want my car properly finished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_RC# ... 2.80.93.29

But it seems like you did

[Petrolheadia]

I said the Top Gear track is an opposite of technical. It isn't technical. It's high speed, brutal, pushing to the limits. Maybe the Veyron's limits weren't far enough?

I meant to say it was the opposite of technical* My bad there

How are the Veyron's limits not high enough? It had the highest top speed in the world at the time it was lapped (Second highest now to the Chiron) and had over 1,000 horsepower

So what? This was a circuit, not a straight. On a circuit, it does not matter how fast can you go on a straight, but how much of that speed can you keep in the corners.

[Petrolheadia]

Praise the almighty Mustang! The car that in the best-handling version can keep up with the Beetle's handling!
/end sarcasm


I love the 60s/70s styling, and to me, the 240Z is one of the best looking cars.

However, I don't like the styling of the E-Type (front looks like a fish, side profile looks like a condom) and Citroen DS (it looks like a failed attempt to draw a Peugeot 504).
American performance cars - because who wants to go around a corner or stop in a performance car?

I prefer not having huge repair bills and I want my car properly finished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_RC# ... 2.80.93.29

But it seems like you did

It is a joke about how they did throughout the history. Yes, the new American performance cars are good, and there always were diamonds in the rough, but usually, American sports cars were not good

[GreatestBanks]

Alright, let's talk about the Stingray.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... rison-test
Wins test against 911 Carrera S.

And your point was that American cars are useless if you wanted to go into a corner or have powerful brakings. If American cars do better on technical tracks with lots of corners and braking zones, that invalidates your points.

Wow. A Corvette managed to beat a Porsche. Happens. It does not mean all American cars are the best.

And I never said American cars were bad at that. I just said they aren't fun to drive.

You claimed the Corvette "just wasn't that good"
The 911 Carrera S is the one of the best 911s you can buy in the moment, and a moderately optioned Z51 managed to beat it.

[Petrolheadia]

Wow. A Corvette managed to beat a Porsche. Happens. It does not mean all American cars are the best.

And I never said American cars were bad at that. I just said they aren't fun to drive.

You claimed the Corvette "just wasn't that good"
The 911 Carrera S is the one of the best 911s you can buy in the moment, and a moderately optioned Z51 managed to beat it.

I said "maybe".

And the Carrera S is more of a lower-end 911.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

You say they handle badly and are not fun to drive BECAUSE YOU PLAYED THEM IN A VIDEO GAME ONE TIME. That's absolutely nothing remotely like real life, okay? I haven't driven a ton of cars in real life, but I have my opinions at least based on the vehicles I've driven, rather than what I liked or didn't like in a video game that is nothing like reality.

I am pitting cars against each other in game. And today's games have very realistic portrayals of car handling, if you know where to search. Certainly Forza Horizon, the game where I did the comparisons, does.

Lol Forza. Forza isn't a sim, and Horizons is less sim-like than then main series.

There's plenty of American cars that provide driving fun, some provide it mostly in a straight line (muscle cars), some provide it in the twisties (Vega GT or Cosworth, Solstice) and some provide it in both (smallblock pony cars).

[Patridam]

You claimed the Corvette "just wasn't that good"
The 911 Carrera S is the one of the best 911s you can buy in the moment, and a moderately optioned Z51 managed to beat it.

I said "maybe".

And the Carrera S is more of a lower-end 911.

Petrolheadia "LOL all American cars suk they like don't no what corners are"

Everyone else: *evidence numerous American cars are faster and better handling than competition from Europe and Japan*

Petrolheadia "Thas not proof those are exceptions to the rule I never said all American cars suk just all the ones except the one that beat European ones. I kno dis cuz I play da vidya games"

[Petrolheadia]

I said "maybe".

And the Carrera S is more of a lower-end 911.

Petrolheadia "LOL all American cars suk they like don't no what corners are"

Everyone else: *evidence numerous American cars are faster and better handling than competition from Europe and Japan*

Petrolheadia "Thas not proof those are exceptions to the rule I never said all American cars suk just all the ones except the one that beat European ones. I kno dis cuz I play da vidya games"

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ToRidicule

And suddenly, when I crack a joke, it becomes a serious opinion.

Plus, I did not say all American cars were bad. I pointed out the ones that were not.

[Petrolheadia]

I am pitting cars against each other in game. And today's games have very realistic portrayals of car handling, if you know where to search. Certainly Forza Horizon, the game where I did the comparisons, does.

Lol Forza. Forza isn't a sim, and Horizons is less sim-like than then main series.

There's plenty of American cars that provide driving fun, some provide it mostly in a straight line (muscle cars), some provide it in the twisties (Vega GT or Cosworth, Solstice) and some provide it in both (smallblock pony cars).

Well, make sure you have the "simulation steering" box checked.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

Lol Forza. Forza isn't a sim, and Horizons is less sim-like than then main series.

There's plenty of American cars that provide driving fun, some provide it mostly in a straight line (muscle cars), some provide it in the twisties (Vega GT or Cosworth, Solstice) and some provide it in both (smallblock pony cars).

Well, make sure you have the "simulation steering" box checked.

I'm just comparing it to PC sims. Forza and GT are great arcade racing games for the console, but serious sim racing is a PC exclusive hobby.

[The Two Jerseys]

>using old BMWs when the Cadillac CTS and Cadillac ATS not only beat them in every subjective and objective measure but they beat modern BMWs as well
>Aventador can't even keep up with a Z06 on the international lightning lap
I'll give you the Miata. There is no small American roadster that competed with it since the Pontiac Solstice went away.
The GTI as well. The best American response is the Focus RS&ST but they both have soul-crushing, bone rapturing rides.

Well, I gotta say the new Cadillacs handle better. But are also more unreliable.
The Aventador can't keep up, on the Lightning Lap, but it's because that is a technical course. On the Top Gear track, designed to push cars to the limit, the Z06 wasn't tested,,but if we get lower models of both brands (normal Corvette and a Huracan), the Lambo doesn't take shit from the Vette.
And the ST and RS are actually cars designed in Germany and tuned up in Britain.

The Top Gear track isn't designed to push cars to the limit.

It's designed for airplanes to take off, land, and taxi.

It's not a high-speed course either. It's literally the worst design for high-speed cornering.

[Patridam]

Petrolheadia "LOL all American cars suk they like don't no what corners are"

Everyone else: *evidence numerous American cars are faster and better handling than competition from Europe and Japan*

Petrolheadia "Thas not proof those are exceptions to the rule I never said all American cars suk just all the ones except the one that beat European ones. I kno dis cuz I play da vidya games"

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ToRidicule

And suddenly, when I crack a joke, it becomes a serious opinion.

Plus, I did not say all American cars were bad. I pointed out the ones that were not.

"American performance cars - because who wants to go around a corner or stop in a performance car?"
"And American cars don't have the most important thing - driving fun."
"The "driving fun" thing is based on my experience from simulators. Driving all American cars felt like trying to corner in a bathtub, or, with enough tuning, like a deathwish."

You've already made it apparent that you believe ALL American cars are a.) never fun to drive, b.) always bad handling (like a bathtub), c.) always brake and stop badly. You also have made it apparent that your information is from not realistic video games and top gear - which is so inaccurate and biased as to be legally classified as a noninformative program, and as a pure entertainment program.

Your narrative is objectively false, and you continuing to defend it is absurd.

[Petrolheadia]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ToRidicule

And suddenly, when I crack a joke, it becomes a serious opinion.

Plus, I did not say all American cars were bad. I pointed out the ones that were not.

"American performance cars - because who wants to go around a corner or stop in a performance car?"
"And American cars don't have the most important thing - driving fun."
"The "driving fun" thing is based on my experience from simulators. Driving all American cars felt like trying to corner in a bathtub, or, with enough tuning, like a deathwish."

You've already made it apparent that you believe ALL American cars are a.) never fun to drive, b.) always bad handling (like a bathtub), c.) always brake and stop badly. You also have made it apparent that your information is from not realistic video games and top gear - which is so inaccurate and biased as to be legally classified as a noninformative program, and as a pure entertainment program.

Your narrative is objectively false, and you continuing to defend it is absurd.

OK, "all" is an exaggeration. However, most of them are.

And Forza is really realistic. Have you played it?

Plus, I mentioned the Top Gear magazine, which is quite a serious publication, and the laptimes, which are done in a normal manner.

[The Two Jerseys]

And Forza is really realistic. Have you played it?

I have, and it's not.

Unless you think that pedals that function like on/off switches and poorly-modulated steering input is "realistic".

[Petrolheadia]

And Forza is really realistic. Have you played it?

I have, and it's not.

Unless you think that pedals that function like on/off switches and poorly-modulated steering input is "realistic".

Have you been playing it in simulation mode?

[The Two Jerseys]

I have, and it's not.

Unless you think that pedals that function like on/off switches and poorly-modulated steering input is "realistic".

Have you been playing it in simulation mode?

You don't seem to understand how pedals and steering wheels actually work. Joysticks and buttons cannot accurately replicate their operation.

And God help you if you tried to downshift a manual while breaking in a real car like you would in Forza...

[Petrolheadia]

Have you been playing it in simulation mode?

You don't seem to understand how pedals and steering wheels actually work. Joysticks and buttons cannot accurately replicate their operation.

And God help you if you tried to downshift a manual while breaking in a real car like you would in Forza...

Yeah, the sensitivity of triggers and joysticks needs work. That is why I love mountain roads with high-speed corners in games - because everything else feels weird.

Also, I've never tried downshifting while braking, but I realize that IRL you need a clutch for it, or something like this. I don't know, I'm doing this almost instinctively if I'm doing it.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine you are a teenage girl, living in 1983 London. It's time for your first car. However, many different costs leave you only able to own a car with an engine below 1000 cc. The options are:
- 1977 Datsun 100A manual 2-door sedan,
- 1978 Daihatsu Charade 1.0 4-speed manual 5-door hatchback,
- 1978 VW Polo 0.9 3-door hatchback,
- 1979 Peugeot 104 954 cc 5-door hatchback,
- 1979 Renault 6 854 cc,
- 1979 Fiat 127 0.9 3-door hatchback,
- 1978 Ford Fiesta 957 cc,
- 1979 Chrysler Sunbeam 0.9,
- 1980 Mini 1000 2-door sedan,
- 1980 Reliant Kitten 2-door saloon.

Which one would you choose? I'd get the Datsun.

[Patridam]

Imagine you are a teenage girl, living in 1983 London. It's time for your first car. However, many different costs leave you only able to own a car with an engine below 1000 cc. The options are:
- 1977 Datsun 100A manual 2-door sedan,
- 1978 Daihatsu Charade 1.0 4-speed manual 5-door hatchback,
- 1978 VW Polo 0.9 3-door hatchback,
- 1979 Peugeot 104 954 cc 5-door hatchback,
- 1979 Renault 6 854 cc,
- 1979 Fiat 127 0.9 3-door hatchback,
- 1978 Ford Fiesta 957 cc,
- 1979 Chrysler Sunbeam 0.9,
- 1980 Mini 1000 2-door sedan,
- 1980 Reliant Kitten 2-door saloon.

Which one would you choose? I'd get the Datsun.

Probably the Polo, though I'd have to get a Derby sedan instead of a Polo. That'd be the closest thing to an actual car (as opposed to a golf cart with windows) on this list.

[Auzkhia]

Is something like the Ford Focus RS American or German?

It's made in Germany and was developed by the Ford European Division based in Köln.

But if that's true, then the Honda Accord (USDM) is American because since 1982 it is made in Ohio, and Toyota Camry is made Kentucky, so American or Japanese?

[I didnt vote for Trump]

Is something like the Ford Focus RS American or German?

It's made in Germany and was developed by the Ford European Division based in Köln.

But if that's true, then the Honda Accord (USDM) is American because since 1982 it is made in Ohio, and Toyota Camry is made Kentucky, so American or Japanese?

Depends.

RS is designed in Europe and built in Europe, so European.

USDM Accord is designed for the US where it is built, so American.

There's not as much difference between USDM Camrys and other Camrys and the Camry is mostly designed in Japan, so Japanese.