The General Car Thread.

[Elwher]

It tells me that you only know meme cars. :>

Well, if "meme cars" is another word for "most popular cars",,then yes.

And American cars don't have the most important thing - driving fun.

First, I agree that driving fun, a very subjective concept to be sure, is the most important thing in a car. If it's not fun to drive, take a bus or train to where you are going. That's why I prefer pre-1980 British sports cars, I find them the most fun to drive.

However, before making generalizations about American cars not being fun, consider the Shelby Cobra, any of the Allard variants, the Vector W8, most of the Corvette line, the Saleen, and the Ford GT/GT40, just for a few examples.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine you are a 65-year-old retired businessman, living in early 1973 Washington, D.C. You want to replace,your 1968 Cadillac Sedan de Ville with another brand-new 4-door sedan, but now, you have a lower budget. Still, a lot of cars fits in it:
- Cadillac Calais 472 ci hardtop,
- Mercury Marquis 460 ci hardtop,
- Chrysler New Yorker hardtop,
- BMW 2800 Bavaria automatic,
- Volvo 164 automatic,

Which one would you choose? I'd get the Cadillac.

[The Two Jerseys]

Praise the almighty Mustang! The car that in the best-handling version can keep up with the Beetle's handling!
/end sarcasm

American performance cars - because who wants to go around a corner or stop in a performance car?

"hahahah corners right?" the weeb silently muttered to himself, trying desperately to forget that American cars dominate almost every performance market. :>

Two of the top 20 Nurburgring lap times are Vipers. Two of the top 20 Nurburgring lap times are Corvettes.
The Camaro ZL1 and Shelby GT350R both have faster lap times than a Zonda F and the Koenigsegg CCX and CCR.

Clearly American cars can't stop or turn.

The "driving fun" thing is based on reviews

In other words, something completely subjective and can vary depending on the reviewer.

and my experience from simulators.

I have more fun driving my Malibu in real life than I do driving a 250TR or Stratos in Forza.

[Petrolheadia]

"hahahah corners right?" the weeb silently muttered to himself, trying desperately to forget that American cars dominate almost every performance market. :>

Two of the top 20 Nurburgring lap times are Vipers. Two of the top 20 Nurburgring lap times are Corvettes.
The Camaro ZL1 and Shelby GT350R both have faster lap times than a Zonda F and the Koenigsegg CCX and CCR.

Clearly American cars can't stop or turn.

The "driving fun" thing is based on reviews

In other words, something completely subjective and can vary depending on the reviewer.

and my experience from simulators.

I have more fun driving my Malibu in real life than I do driving a 250TR or Stratos in Forza.

The Nurburgring is simply an unusual track with a lot of sudden elevation changes, something that gives an advantage to cars with softer suspensions and front engines. European cars don't do well there, as they are made for more usual conditions.

On a flat track, like the Top Gear one, the 2014 Corvette Stingray is behind the 2004 Ferrari 430, the Vauxhall VXR8 (UK version of Pontiac G8) lags behind the older, less powerful BMW M3 and Audi RS4, the Corvette C6 is beaten by a Porsche Cayman S, the Roush Mustang had a laptime similar to a BMW Z4 35i and the Shelby GT500 eats the 250 HP FWD Focus ST's dust.

[The Two Jerseys]

Two of the top 20 Nurburgring lap times are Vipers. Two of the top 20 Nurburgring lap times are Corvettes.
The Camaro ZL1 and Shelby GT350R both have faster lap times than a Zonda F and the Koenigsegg CCX and CCR.

Clearly American cars can't stop or turn.

In other words, something completely subjective and can vary depending on the reviewer.

I have more fun driving my Malibu in real life than I do driving a 250TR or Stratos in Forza.

The Nurburgring is simply an unusual track with a lot of sudden elevation changes, something that gives an advantage to cars with softer suspensions and front engines.

In the words of the great James May, "I believe this is what's known as 'racing drivers' excuses'."

European cars don't do well there, as they are made for more usual conditions.

Yes, because every road in the world is designed by Hermann Tilke.

On a flat track, like the Top Gear one, the 2014 Corvette Stingray is behind the 2004 Ferrari 430,

2014 base model Vette is only 0:00.1 slower than the lighter, more powerful version of the 2004 430.

Your point?

the Vauxhall VXR8 (UK version of Pontiac G8) lags behind the older, less powerful BMW M3 and Audi RS4,

You mean the M3 that is all of one year older and the AWD Audi with a massive traction advantage, neither of which can apparently go up hills?

the Corvette C6 is beaten by a Porsche Cayman S,

You mean the newer mid-level Cayman that beat the older base model Vette by 0:00.1?

I'm seeing a pattern here...

the Roush Mustang had a laptime similar to a BMW Z4 35i

Tell the truth: the older car with the live real axle that you deride so much was faster.

and the Shelby GT500 eats the 250 HP FWD Focus ST's dust.

So after playing the "the car isn't well-suited for this track" card with the 'Ring, you use the very same scenario to try and prove the Focus' superiority over a 10-year older GT500.

And still only beat it by 0:00.4...

[Petrolheadia]

The Nurburgring is simply an unusual track with a lot of sudden elevation changes, something that gives an advantage to cars with softer suspensions and front engines.

In the words of the great James May, "I believe this is what's known as 'racing drivers' excuses'."

European cars don't do well there, as they are made for more usual conditions.

Yes, because every road in the world is designed by Hermann Tilke.

On a flat track, like the Top Gear one, the 2014 Corvette Stingray is behind the 2004 Ferrari 430,

2014 base model Vette is only 0:00.1 slower than the lighter, more powerful version of the 2004 430.

Your point?

the Vauxhall VXR8 (UK version of Pontiac G8) lags behind the older, less powerful BMW M3 and Audi RS4,

You mean the M3 that is all of one year older and the AWD Audi with a massive traction advantage, neither of which can apparently go up hills?

the Corvette C6 is beaten by a Porsche Cayman S,

You mean the newer mid-level Cayman that beat the older base model Vette by 0:00.1?

I'm seeing a pattern here...

the Roush Mustang had a laptime similar to a BMW Z4 35i

Tell the truth: the older car with the live real axle that you deride so much was faster.

and the Shelby GT500 eats the 250 HP FWD Focus ST's dust.

So after playing the "the car isn't well-suited for this track" card with the 'Ring, you use the very same scenario to try and prove the Focus' superiority over a 10-year older GT500.

And still only beat it by 0:00.4...[/quote]
Such a split quote botchjob...


Truth is, more roads are level, (like the TG track) rather than hilly (Nurburgring).
The Corvette is still a 10 year old newer car. 10 years give a lot of difference.
Well, the VXR8 has never been on the Ring, and it had a power advantage on the M3.
The fact that the Roush was faster is derived from its large (nearly 200 HP) power advantage. The axle is the reason it wasn't as fast as it should be - and that it got beaten by the less powerful Camaro SS.
And the Focus ST wasn't advantaged. In fact, it was disadvantaged by being FWD and having understeer.

[The Two Jerseys]

Truth is, more roads are level, (like the TG track) rather than hilly (Nurburgring).

No, they're not.

The Corvette is still a 10 year old newer car. 10 years give a lot of difference.

So why did you make the comparison in the first place?

Well, the VXR8 has never been on the Ring, and it had a power advantage on the M3.

Less powerful car is faster on a short, twisty track where the more powerful car can't exploit that power.

Much shock.

The fact that the Roush was faster is derived from its large (nearly 200 HP) power advantage. The axle is the reason it wasn't as fast as it should be - and that it got beaten by the less powerful Camaro SS.
And the Focus ST wasn't advantaged. In fact, it was disadvantaged by being FWD and having understeer.

And going sideways because you have too much power going to the rear wheels is an advantage how?

[Petrolheadia]

Truth is, more roads are level, (like the TG track) rather than hilly (Nurburgring).

No, they're not.

The Corvette is still a 10 year old newer car. 10 years give a lot of difference.

So why did you make the comparison in the first place?

Well, the VXR8 has never been on the Ring, and it had a power advantage on the M3.

Less powerful car is faster on a short, twisty track where the more powerful car can't exploit that power.

Much shock.

The fact that the Roush was faster is derived from its large (nearly 200 HP) power advantage. The axle is the reason it wasn't as fast as it should be - and that it got beaten by the less powerful Camaro SS.
And the Focus ST wasn't advantaged. In fact, it was disadvantaged by being FWD and having understeer.

And going sideways because you have too much power going to the rear wheels is an advantage how?

First, most roads are close to being as level as the TG track than as hilly as the Ring.
Second, a brand-new 911 competitor is expected to beat a 10-year-old entry-level Ferrari.
Third, the Top Gear track is full of fast corners and straights, which means the VXR8 lost in its ideal enviroment.
Fourth, oversteer is as much of a disadvantage as understeer.

[Auzkhia]

The Celica design is a clear rip-off of the Ford Mustang.

The problem isn't the long hood/short deck design language used by the Japanese sports cars, that's just Front Engine Rear Drive sports car language, but the Celica is an outright rip-off of the mighty Mustang

Praise the almighty Mustang! The car that in the best-handling version can keep up with the Beetle's handling!
/end sarcasm

This will be unpopular, but, to me most Japanese sports cars of the 60s and very early 70s were somewhat dopey looking. The Celica was just a rip off the style of American sports car (long hood short deck well slanted windshield)

The S50/S54/S57 and C10 Skylines just look like an econ car design. The 240z to me looks like the Jag E-Type had sex with classic Mini cooper headlights and crapped out a bastard child.

I love the 60s/70s styling, and to me, the 240Z is one of the best looking cars.

However, I don't like the styling of the E-Type (front looks like a fish, side profile looks like a condom) and Citroen DS (it looks like a failed attempt to draw a Peugeot 504).

Hey the Charger R/T with the Hemi had something of a braking system.
''The Dodges were even more interesting and less predictable. The 318 stopped in an almost straight line in 147 feet; eight less than the best Marlin. This was with drums. The 383, also with drums, took eight feet more the same as the Marlin 6. No surprise so far. The Hemi-Charger with discs did the same test in an amazing 133 feet, despite its greater front-end weight.''*
*The stop was from 60-0 on a clean strip of road

The 1967 318 Charger event came close to 50/50 weight distribution.


http://www.motortrend.com/news/1967-marlin-charger/

American performance cars - because who wants to go around a corner or stop in a performance car?

http://www.automobilesreview.com/galler ... cat-03.jpg

I prefer not having huge repair bills and I want my car properly finished.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_RC# ... 2.80.93.29

[Patridam]

hahah if more people know about something it must be objectively better hahah



hahah my subjective opinion based on absolutely nothing is objective fact hahah

The "driving fun" thing is based on reviews and my experience from simulators. Driving all American cars felt like trying to corner in a bathtub, or, with enough tuning, like a deathwish. The only good American cars were the Hemi Cuda and Dodge Viper, but I still had more fun in cars like the Rabbit GTi, Datsun 510 , Mazda Miata or TVR Sagaris.

Also, the Corvette Z06/ZR1 and Chevy SS are pretty good,,but it's still just a few good cars.

HAHAHA, you hate American cars because... because you didn't like them in simualtions? Jesus christ almighty,who the hell would think it reasonable to form opinions on an entire country's cars because they happened to handle badly in a goddamn video game.

Any respect I ever might have had for you Petrolheadia, is now gone.

[Petrolheadia]

The "driving fun" thing is based on reviews and my experience from simulators. Driving all American cars felt like trying to corner in a bathtub, or, with enough tuning, like a deathwish. The only good American cars were the Hemi Cuda and Dodge Viper, but I still had more fun in cars like the Rabbit GTi, Datsun 510 , Mazda Miata or TVR Sagaris.

Also, the Corvette Z06/ZR1 and Chevy SS are pretty good,,but it's still just a few good cars.

HAHAHA, you hate American cars because... because you didn't like them in simualtions? Jesus christ almighty, I haven't driven a vast number of cars, but I certainly wouldn't say I hate an entire country's cars because they happened to handle badly in a goddamn video game.

Any respect I ever might have had for you Petrolheadia, is now gone.

I don't say American cars are bad. I just said that most of them is not fun to drive. There are good American cars, like the Panther platform, RWD B/C-Bodies from the 80s,,Corvette C6, Chevy SS...

[Patridam]

HAHAHA, you hate American cars because... because you didn't like them in simualtions? Jesus christ almighty, I haven't driven a vast number of cars, but I certainly wouldn't say I hate an entire country's cars because they happened to handle badly in a goddamn video game.

Any respect I ever might have had for you Petrolheadia, is now gone.

I don't say American cars are bad. I just said that most of them is not fun to drive. There are good American cars, like the Panther platform, RWD B/C-Bodies from the 80s,,Corvette C6, Chevy SS...

You say they handle badly and are not fun to drive BECAUSE YOU PLAYED THEM IN A VIDEO GAME ONE TIME. That's absolutely nothing remotely like real life, okay? I haven't driven a ton of cars in real life, but I have my opinions at least based on the vehicles I've driven, rather than what I liked or didn't like in a video game that is nothing like reality.

[Petrolheadia]

I don't say American cars are bad. I just said that most of them is not fun to drive. There are good American cars, like the Panther platform, RWD B/C-Bodies from the 80s,,Corvette C6, Chevy SS...

You say they handle badly and are not fun to drive BECAUSE YOU PLAYED THEM IN A VIDEO GAME ONE TIME. That's absolutely nothing remotely like real life, okay? I haven't driven a ton of cars in real life, but I have my opinions at least based on the vehicles I've driven, rather than what I liked or didn't like in a video game that is nothing like reality.

I am pitting cars against each other in game. And today's games have very realistic portrayals of car handling, if you know where to search. Certainly Forza Horizon, the game where I did the comparisons, does.

[Patridam]

You say they handle badly and are not fun to drive BECAUSE YOU PLAYED THEM IN A VIDEO GAME ONE TIME. That's absolutely nothing remotely like real life, okay? I haven't driven a ton of cars in real life, but I have my opinions at least based on the vehicles I've driven, rather than what I liked or didn't like in a video game that is nothing like reality.

I am pitting cars against each other in game. And today's games have very realistic portrayals of car handling, if you know where to search. Certainly Forza Horizon, the game where I did the comparisons, does.

However realistic video games may or may not be with vehicle handling (hint: they're not) they have no FEEL. You can't feel the car go up and down, lean, or feel it break free in the rear, or feel the acceleration pin you your seat, or feel the brakes throw you forward, or feel the brakes pedal shudder as antilocks engage.... you can't feel the wheel in your hands, its resistance or lack thereof... you can't feel asa your foot feathres the clutch, you can't feel how long or short the shifter throws are, or how notchy or smooth the gearbox is... you can't feel, hear, see, or smell a million things that are part of a car driving experience when you are only pressing buttons in front of a 32" TV.

Driving a car is a visceral experience, especially a performance car. It's impossible to determine how fun a car is or is not to drive without actually driving it. You CANNOT IN ANY GODDAMN WAY claim to know how fun a car is to drive from a fucking video game.

[GreatestBanks]

HAHAHA, you hate American cars because... because you didn't like them in simualtions? Jesus christ almighty, I haven't driven a vast number of cars, but I certainly wouldn't say I hate an entire country's cars because they happened to handle badly in a goddamn video game.

Any respect I ever might have had for you Petrolheadia, is now gone.

I don't say American cars are bad. I just said that most of them is not fun to drive.* There are good American cars, like the Panther platform, RWD B/C-Bodies from the 80s,,Corvette C6, Chevy SS...

*Cadillac CTS, Cadillac ATS, Cadillac CT6, Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette C7, Chevrolet Sonic, Dodge Viper, Ford Fusion, Ford Edge
Almost any modern American car, especially GM products, have precise and accurate steering with good feedback.
Also the Chevy SS is the same platform as the previous-generation Camaro and Pontiac G8, so...

[Petrolheadia]

I am pitting cars against each other in game. And today's games have very realistic portrayals of car handling, if you know where to search. Certainly Forza Horizon, the game where I did the comparisons, does.

However realistic video games may or may not be with vehicle handling (hint: they're not) they have no FEEL. You can't feel the car go up and down, lean, or feel it break free in the rear, or feel the acceleration pin you your seat, or feel the brakes throw you forward, or feel the brakes pedal shudder as antilocks engage.... you can't feel the wheel in your hands, its resistance or lack thereof... you can't feel asa your foot feathres the clutch, you can't feel how long or short the shifter throws are, or how notchy or smooth the gearbox is... you can't feel, hear, see, or smell a million things that are part of a car driving experience when you are only pressing buttons in front of a 32" TV.

Driving a car is a visceral experience, especially a performance car. It's impossible to determine how fun a car is or is not to drive without actually driving it. You CANNOT IN ANY GODDAMN WAY claim to know how fun a car is to drive from a fucking video game.

You have a point.

However, the most important things can be observed: how does the car accelerate, how does it turn (and when the rear kicks out or the car starts oversteering,,you feel it via controller vibrations), how does it brake (and the shudder is now actually experienced by the gamer via controller vibrations).

Nowadays, video games are a step between reviews and driving the car in real life. Yes, both the review and the game won't give you a touch of the car, but both will give you an insight into how it drives, and the game will make that insight even bigger, as it all unfolds not by reading, but by your actions.

[Petrolheadia]

I don't say American cars are bad. I just said that most of them is not fun to drive.* There are good American cars, like the Panther platform, RWD B/C-Bodies from the 80s,,Corvette C6, Chevy SS...

*Cadillac CTS, Cadillac ATS, Cadillac CT6, Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette C7, Chevrolet Sonic, Dodge Viper, Ford Fusion, Ford Edge
Almost any modern American car, especially GM products, have precise and accurate steering with good feedback.
Also the Chevy SS is the same platform as the previous-generation Camaro and Pontiac G8, so...

All the reviews I have read didn't describe the CT6 (tested by Top Gear magazine), Chevy Sonic (tested by Auto Świat), Ford Fusion (all major Polish magazines) and Ford Edge (as previous) as well-handling and with accurate steering.

They all described these cars as toned down in comparison to competitors.

[GreatestBanks]

Two of the top 20 Nurburgring lap times are Vipers. Two of the top 20 Nurburgring lap times are Corvettes.
The Camaro ZL1 and Shelby GT350R both have faster lap times than a Zonda F and the Koenigsegg CCX and CCR.

Clearly American cars can't stop or turn.

In other words, something completely subjective and can vary depending on the reviewer.

I have more fun driving my Malibu in real life than I do driving a 250TR or Stratos in Forza.

The Nurburgring is simply an unusual track with a lot of sudden elevation changes, something that gives an advantage to cars with softer suspensions and front engines. European cars don't do well there, as they are made for more usual conditions.

On a flat track, like the Top Gear one, the 2014 Corvette Stingray is behind the 2004 Ferrari 430, the Vauxhall VXR8 (UK version of Pontiac G8) lags behind the older, less powerful BMW M3 and Audi RS4, the Corvette C6 is beaten by a Porsche Cayman S, the Roush Mustang had a laptime similar to a BMW Z4 35i and the Shelby GT500 eats the 250 HP FWD Focus ST's dust.

The Nurburgring is literally the track of the world. It's the most famous track in Germany and probably tied with Le Mans for all of Europe.
The Top Gear track is also very tight and very technical. It'll bias results to European cars.

Look at the Lightning Lap in Virginia or Mazda Laguana Seca. American cars dominate both of those tracks.

[GreatestBanks]

*Cadillac CTS, Cadillac ATS, Cadillac CT6, Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette C7, Chevrolet Sonic, Dodge Viper, Ford Fusion, Ford Edge
Almost any modern American car, especially GM products, have precise and accurate steering with good feedback.
Also the Chevy SS is the same platform as the previous-generation Camaro and Pontiac G8, so...

All the reviews I have read didn't describe the CT6 (tested by Top Gear magazine), Chevy Sonic (tested by Auto Świat), Ford Fusion (all major Polish magazines) and Ford Edge (as previous) as well-handling and with accurate steering.

They all described these cars as toned down in comparison to competitors.

For reviews of cars I use Car&Driver, Consumer Reports, Motor Trend.

Top Gear doesn't respect American cars, they even give praise to the C7 Corvette begrudingly, horrified that it is a sports car worthy of comparison to the Porsche 911.

[GreatestBanks]

"hahahah corners right?" the weeb silently muttered to himself, trying desperately to forget that American cars dominate almost every performance market. :>

Miata, E36, E30, 911, Aventador, Golf GTI - do these names say anything to you?

And when did I became a weeb? Listen, I hate Japanese culture. I hate their honorifics, their actual backwardness, their workaholism... cars and electronics are the only good Japanese things.

>using old BMWs when the Cadillac CTS and Cadillac ATS not only beat them in every subjective and objective measure but they beat modern BMWs as well
>Aventador can't even keep up with a Z06 on the international lightning lap
I'll give you the Miata. There is no small American roadster that competed with it since the Pontiac Solstice went away.
The GTI as well. The best American response is the Focus RS&ST but they both have soul-crushing, bone rapturing rides.

[Petrolheadia]

The Nurburgring is simply an unusual track with a lot of sudden elevation changes, something that gives an advantage to cars with softer suspensions and front engines. European cars don't do well there, as they are made for more usual conditions.

On a flat track, like the Top Gear one, the 2014 Corvette Stingray is behind the 2004 Ferrari 430, the Vauxhall VXR8 (UK version of Pontiac G8) lags behind the older, less powerful BMW M3 and Audi RS4, the Corvette C6 is beaten by a Porsche Cayman S, the Roush Mustang had a laptime similar to a BMW Z4 35i and the Shelby GT500 eats the 250 HP FWD Focus ST's dust.

The Nurburgring is literally the track of the world. It's the most famous track in Germany and probably tied with Le Mans for all of Europe.
The Top Gear track is also very tight and very technical. It'll bias results to European cars.

Look at the Lightning Lap in Virginia or Mazda Laguana Seca. American cars dominate both of those tracks.

Both the tracks you suggested are technical, and the Top Gear track is essentially a big figure 8 with a single chicane. The only thing less technical is an oval.
Are you even trying to make an argument.

All the reviews I have read didn't describe the CT6 (tested by Top Gear magazine), Chevy Sonic (tested by Auto Świat), Ford Fusion (all major Polish magazines) and Ford Edge (as previous) as well-handling and with accurate steering.

They all described these cars as toned down in comparison to competitors.

For reviews of cars I use Car&Driver, Consumer Reports, Motor Trend.

Top Gear doesn't respect American cars, they even give praise to the C7 Corvette begrudingly, horrified that it is a sports car worthy of comparison to the Porsche 911.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Corvette wasn't that good?

And the magazines I mentioned are all unbiased. Is it just because American tastes are washed out, due to most of the cars on your side of the Atlantic being less sophisticated?

[Petrolheadia]

Miata, E36, E30, 911, Aventador, Golf GTI - do these names say anything to you?

And when did I became a weeb? Listen, I hate Japanese culture. I hate their honorifics, their actual backwardness, their workaholism... cars and electronics are the only good Japanese things.

>using old BMWs when the Cadillac CTS and Cadillac ATS not only beat them in every subjective and objective measure but they beat modern BMWs as well
>Aventador can't even keep up with a Z06 on the international lightning lap
I'll give you the Miata. There is no small American roadster that competed with it since the Pontiac Solstice went away.
The GTI as well. The best American response is the Focus RS&ST but they both have soul-crushing, bone rapturing rides.

Well, I gotta say the new Cadillacs handle better. But are also more unreliable.
The Aventador can't keep up, on the Lightning Lap, but it's because that is a technical course. On the Top Gear track, designed to push cars to the limit, the Z06 wasn't tested,,but if we get lower models of both brands (normal Corvette and a Huracan), the Lambo doesn't take shit from the Vette.
And the ST and RS are actually cars designed in Germany and tuned up in Britain.

[GreatestBanks]

The Nurburgring is literally the track of the world. It's the most famous track in Germany and probably tied with Le Mans for all of Europe.
The Top Gear track is also very tight and very technical. It'll bias results to European cars.

Look at the Lightning Lap in Virginia or Mazda Laguana Seca. American cars dominate both of those tracks.

Both the tracks you suggested are technical, and the Top Gear track is essentially a big figure 8 with a single chicane. The only thing less technical is an oval.
Are you even trying to make an argument.

For reviews of cars I use Car&Driver, Consumer Reports, Motor Trend.

Top Gear doesn't respect American cars, they even give praise to the C7 Corvette begrudingly, horrified that it is a sports car worthy of comparison to the Porsche 911.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Corvette wasn't that good?

And the magazines I mentioned are all unbiased. Is it just because American tastes are washed out, due to most of the cars on your side of the Atlantic being less sophisticated?

lol the corvette wasn't good
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... rison-test
>Z06 wins a comparison test against a 911 Turbo S and GTR Nismo
>Faster at Laguana Seca than almost all European sports cars other than the 918 and McLaren P1
>Pulls over 1.0 g on a skidpad with even the base model

>American tastes are washed out and cars are less sophisticated
Ferrari was the one buying magnetorheological dampers from GM, not the other way around. And yes, while using pushrod 6.2 Liter V8s in performance cars is "outdated," the LT-1 and LT-4 today are some of the best performance engines around.

[Petrolheadia]

Both the tracks you suggested are technical, and the Top Gear track is essentially a big figure 8 with a single chicane. The only thing less technical is an oval.
Are you even trying to make an argument.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Corvette wasn't that good?

And the magazines I mentioned are all unbiased. Is it just because American tastes are washed out, due to most of the cars on your side of the Atlantic being less sophisticated?

lol the corvette wasn't good
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... rison-test
>Z06 wins a comparison test against a 911 Turbo S and GTR Nismo
>Faster at Laguana Seca than almost all European sports cars other than the 918 and McLaren P1
>Pulls over 1.0 g on a skidpad with even the base model

>American tastes are washed out and cars are less sophisticated
Ferrari was the one buying magnetorheological dampers from GM, not the other way around. And yes, while using pushrod 6.2 Liter V8s in performance cars is "outdated," the LT-1 and LT-4 today are some of the best performance engines around.

Why are you bringing up the Z06, when we are talking about the Stingray?
And Laguna Seca is another technical track. The Top Gear track is better, because its high speed nature pushes cars to their absolute limits.
Plus, the "unsophisticated" comment was about steering feel.

[GreatestBanks]

>using old BMWs when the Cadillac CTS and Cadillac ATS not only beat them in every subjective and objective measure but they beat modern BMWs as well
>Aventador can't even keep up with a Z06 on the international lightning lap
I'll give you the Miata. There is no small American roadster that competed with it since the Pontiac Solstice went away.
The GTI as well. The best American response is the Focus RS&ST but they both have soul-crushing, bone rapturing rides.

Well, I gotta say the new Cadillacs handle better. But are also more unreliable.
The Aventador can't keep up, on the Lightning Lap, but it's because that is a technical course. On the Top Gear track, designed to push cars to the limit, the Z06 wasn't tested,,but if we get lower models of both brands (normal Corvette and a Huracan), the Lambo doesn't take shit from the Vette.
And the ST and RS are actually cars designed in Germany and tuned up in Britain.

New Cadillacs are considered "unreliable" because the CUE system is trash. And yes, it is pretty bad. Not horrific, but bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... _Lap_Times
How is Top Gear a more technical track when the Bugatti Veyron, a car with over 1,000 horsepower, is outrun by the Viper ACR and Nissan GTR?