The General Car Thread.

[Petrolheadia]

And AFAIK,,the middle of the American "food chain" was a fullsize car with a V8 around 300-350ci.

Not exactly. From 1974 to 1976 and then again in 79 through 84, the Oldsmobile Cutlass (a midsize car) was the most popular car in America. Only in 77 and 78 were full size cars the most popular (the Chevrolet Impala/Caprice in both years).

Did I get the engine size right?

[Patridam]

Not exactly. From 1974 to 1976 and then again in 79 through 84, the Oldsmobile Cutlass (a midsize car) was the most popular car in America. Only in 77 and 78 were full size cars the most popular (the Chevrolet Impala/Caprice in both years).

Did I get the engine size right?

Also not exactly.

For the 74-76 Cutlass, while a 350 V8 was available, three other engines (a 250 cid I6, a 260 cid V8, and a 445 cid V8) were available with the 250 as standard on coupes/sedans and the 260 standard on wagons.

For the 77-78 Impala/Caprice, many were sold with 250 CID inline sixes and 267 cid V8's but 305 and 350 V8s were available.

For the 1979+ Cutlass, while gasoline 301 and 305 V8s were available as was a 350 diesel V8, the other engines were a 231 cid V6, a gas 260 V8, and a diesel 260 V8.

[Petrolheadia]

Did I get the engine size right?

Also not exactly.

For the 74-76 Cutlass, while a 350 V8 was available, three other engines (a 250 cid I6, a 260 cid V8, and a 445 cid V8) were available with the 250 as standard on coupes/sedans and the 260 standard on wagons.

For the 77-78 Impala/Caprice, many were sold with 250 CID inline sixes and 267 cid V8's but 305 and 350 V8s were available.

For the 1979+ Cutlass, while gasoline 301 and 305 V8s were available as was a 350 diesel V8, the other engines were a 231 cid V6, a gas 260 V8, and a diesel 260 V8.

So, the average size was ca. 260 ci?

[Patridam]

Also not exactly.

For the 74-76 Cutlass, while a 350 V8 was available, three other engines (a 250 cid I6, a 260 cid V8, and a 455 cid V8) were available with the 250 as standard on coupes/sedans and the 260 standard on wagons.

For the 77-78 Impala/Caprice, many were sold with 250 CID inline sixes and 267 cid V8's but 305 and 350 V8s were available.

For the 1979+ Cutlass, while gasoline 301 and 305 V8s were available as was a 350 diesel V8, the other engines were a 231 cid V6, a gas 260 V8, and a diesel 260 V8.

So, the average size was ca. 260 ci?

Approximately. By 1980 there wasn't anything bigger than 368 cid V8 (Cadillac) on the car market, and full size cars were at a sales low point so smaller cars and engines were starting to take over.

We have a somewhat distorted view today as almost all the GM midsize/fullsize cars that have survived have been the 305 and 350 V8 cars and maybe the occasional later 231 V6. The diesels were intrinsically flawed and did not last long and the 260/267 V8's and the inline sixes were under powered, thrashed to death, and probably bought by people too cheap to take care of their cars anyway.

[Petrolheadia]

I've been thinking about how and why certain car models disappear off streets, and I came to a conclusion there are 4 ways in which a car model can disappear:

- Disappearance by low value - this is when a car model disappears off the streets because its value is so low, you can get more money out of scrapping the car. Examples: Peugeot 205, VW Passat B3, Fiat Cinquecento.

- Disappearance by rust - this is when a car model is so rust-prone that most specimen of it end up not being worth repairing the rust on them and get scrapped instead. Examples: Daewoo Nubira, Opel Corsa Mk1.

- Disappearance by repair cost - this is when a car model is so unreliable that it is not worth repairing anymore. Examples: Citroen XM, Fiat Siena.

- Disappearance by welfare - this is when a certain car model disappears due to welfare programs making its typical owners wealthier, so that they can scrap their current car and buy a newer one. Example: Ford Mondeo MK1.

What do you think of that? Does it look like this in America?

[Petrolheadia]

So, the average size was ca. 260 ci?

Approximately. By 1980 there wasn't anything bigger than 368 cid V8 (Cadillac) on the car market, and full size cars were at a sales low point so smaller cars and engines were starting to take over.

We have a somewhat distorted view today as almost all the GM midsize/fullsize cars that have survived have been the 305 and 350 V8 cars and maybe the occasional later 231 V6. The diesels were intrinsically flawed and did not last long and the 260/267 V8's and the inline sixes were under powered, thrashed to death, and probably bought by people too cheap to take care of their cars anyway.

Similar thing with Peugeot 205s in Poland. Back when they were common on streets, most of them were normal 1.1 or 1.3 3- or 5-door hatchbacks. But now, when most are scrapped, there is a disproportionate amount of GTis and convertibles for sale.

[Elwher]

And the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger and Challenger are a 90's Mercedes Benz E-class underneath, so there's some German parts, which are made in Canada.

Hell, the Jeep Wrangler uses the 5G-tronic automatic transmission. The Crossfire was the R170. The Jeep Grand Cherokee shared some underpinnings with the ML.

That is part sharing. What matters is where the bits are drawn as a whole.

And, knowing how these Mercedes bits are built, I am now 100% sure I want none of these Jeeps or Chryslers.

Heretical opinion time again - It does not make any difference what you call a car, except to those who want to say "OOOH, I love/hate (insert country here) cars." Every country with a diverse auto manufacturing base makes good cars and bad cars, and there is no national car breed for anyone of them. The only exception is where there is only one car company in a country with a limited model line , like Yugoslavia in the 1980's.

What is an American Car? A Shelby Cobra? A Ford GT? A Cadillac CTS? A Chevy Cobalt? What do they have in common?

Focus on the car itself, not on the country of origin (if you can even figure out what that is in this day of international trade) and you will have a much more productive discussion.

[Petrolheadia]

That is part sharing. What matters is where the bits are drawn as a whole.

And, knowing how these Mercedes bits are built, I am now 100% sure I want none of these Jeeps or Chryslers.

Heretical opinion time again - It does not make any difference what you call a car, except to those who want to say "OOOH, I love/hate (insert country here) cars." Every country with a diverse auto manufacturing base makes good cars and bad cars, and there is no national car breed for anyone of them. The only exception is where there is only one car company in a country with a limited model line , like Yugoslavia in the 1980's.

What is an American Car? A Shelby Cobra? A Ford GT? A Cadillac CTS? A Chevy Cobalt? What do they have in common?

Focus on the car itself, not on the country of origin (if you can even figure out what that is in this day of international trade) and you will have a much more productive discussion.

This Is all true. However, you have to be a blind man not to notice that cars from certain countries usually have a certain set of traits when compared to other cars from their segments.

American cars are usually the cheaper option and have good equipment, but are built of cheaper materials and have mediocre at best reliability.

Italian cars are usually fun to drive, but rust-prone and unreliable.

French cars are usually comfortable, well-equipped and safe, but unreliable and underpowered.

Etc.

Of course, this is the usual outcome, not the only one, but is frequent enough that these sterotypes have a right to exist.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine you are a middle-aged man living in 1968 Washington. You work at the customs office. Your 17-year-old son wants a sporty-looking coupe with a manual - and you would like to buy him a new one below $2000.

However,,thanks to your helpful friends at the customs, he can get a tax exempt, duty free one. This lowers the cost of import cars. Thanks to that, the options are:
- Opel Kadett 1.5,
- Ford Cortina 1.6,
- Fiat 850 0.8,
- Toyota Corolla 1.2 fastback.
- Datsun 510 1.6.

Which one would you buy? I'd get the Cortina, as it's a sporty-looking car with decent performance.

[GreatestBanks]

I've been thinking about how and why certain car models disappear off streets, and I came to a conclusion there are 4 ways in which a car model can disappear:

- Disappearance by low value - this is when a car model disappears off the streets because its value is so low, you can get more money out of scrapping the car. Examples: Peugeot 205, VW Passat B3, Fiat Cinquecento.

- Disappearance by rust - this is when a car model is so rust-prone that most specimen of it end up not being worth repairing the rust on them and get scrapped instead. Examples: Daewoo Nubira, Opel Corsa Mk1.

- Disappearance by repair cost - this is when a car model is so unreliable that it is not worth repairing anymore. Examples: Citroen XM, Fiat Siena.

- Disappearance by welfare - this is when a certain car model disappears due to welfare programs making its typical owners wealthier, so that they can scrap their current car and buy a newer one. Example: Ford Mondeo MK1.

What do you think of that? Does it look like this in America?

A lot just disappear because people don't like them or the cars were just horrid. (Pontiac Aztek, GM FWD X-Bodies)

[Petrolheadia]

I've been thinking about how and why certain car models disappear off streets, and I came to a conclusion there are 4 ways in which a car model can disappear:

- Disappearance by low value - this is when a car model disappears off the streets because its value is so low, you can get more money out of scrapping the car. Examples: Peugeot 205, VW Passat B3, Fiat Cinquecento.

- Disappearance by rust - this is when a car model is so rust-prone that most specimen of it end up not being worth repairing the rust on them and get scrapped instead. Examples: Daewoo Nubira, Opel Corsa Mk1.

- Disappearance by repair cost - this is when a car model is so unreliable that it is not worth repairing anymore. Examples: Citroen XM, Fiat Siena.

- Disappearance by welfare - this is when a certain car model disappears due to welfare programs making its typical owners wealthier, so that they can scrap their current car and buy a newer one. Example: Ford Mondeo MK1.

What do you think of that? Does it look like this in America?

A lot just disappear because people don't like them or the cars were just horrid. (Pontiac Aztek, GM FWD X-Bodies)

That's disappearance by low value. And in case of the X-bodies,,also by rust.

And I know one particular Nubira that got scrapped due to rust.
It was a dark blue one, owned by one of my neighbors. I don't know its age, but by the time we moved in (summer of 2011) it was already rusty - a 14-year-old (or younger) car!
However, in 2014, I was able to witness the Nubira being hauled away to a junkyard. The owner replaced it with a 2nd generation Renault Megane wagon.

[GreatestBanks]

A lot just disappear because people don't like them or the cars were just horrid. (Pontiac Aztek, GM FWD X-Bodies)

That's disappearance by low value. And in case of the X-bodies,,also by rust.

And I know one particular Nubira that got scrapped due to rust.
It was a dark blue one, owned by one of my neighbors. I don't know its age, but by the time we moved in (summer of 2011) it was already rusty - a 14-year-old (or younger) car!
However, in 2014, I was able to witness the Nubira being hauled away to a junkyard. The owner replaced it with a 2nd generation Renault Megane wagon.

I meant that some cars that disappear are just very ugly

[Petrolheadia]

That's disappearance by low value. And in case of the X-bodies,,also by rust.

And I know one particular Nubira that got scrapped due to rust.
It was a dark blue one, owned by one of my neighbors. I don't know its age, but by the time we moved in (summer of 2011) it was already rusty - a 14-year-old (or younger) car!
However, in 2014, I was able to witness the Nubira being hauled away to a junkyard. The owner replaced it with a 2nd generation Renault Megane wagon.

I meant that some cars that disappear are just very ugly

Generally, some cars are ugly.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

I mean these days, everything is going global, especially with GM and Ford right now. Chrysler is still trying to hang on by being "American", but everyone else is building vehicles that are the same in America as they are in Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia. And it's what happening with other companies as well, the rise of the global car.

Even so, many Murican "imports from Detroit" are made in Canada, or at least have parts from Canada, or even Mexico. Even Honda is on there too.

World cars are definitely a thing now, especially at Ford, even the Mustang is in the European and Aus/NZ markets.

Based on what I've seen, most of what goes into Hondas that are made in Canada comes from the US. To be fair I can only comment on Civics and not the trucks, they're made in the other plant.

[Patridam]

Imagine you are a middle-aged man living in 1968 Washington. You work at the customs office. Your 17-year-old son wants a sporty-looking coupe with a manual - and you would like to buy him a new one below $2000.

However,,thanks to your helpful friends at the customs, he can get a tax exempt, duty free one. This lowers the cost of import cars. Thanks to that, the options are:
- Opel Kadett 1.9 Rallye,
- Ford Cortina 1600E,
- VW Karmann Ghia Typ 14 1.6,
- Fiat 850 0.8,
- MG Midget+hardtop,
- Datsun 510 1.6.

Which one would you buy? I'd get the Datsun, as it's a reliable, fun-to-drive car.

I question as to whether ANY of these cars could be bought for below $2000, import duty or now - import duties were actually quite low (2% for everything but light trucks) in 1968 as the USA (as well as West Germany, the UK, Italy, and Japan) were part of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. He wouldn't be able to get a Karmann Ghia down from $2300 to $2000 with a 2% duty decrease.

It's also not very wise of him to stick his brand new driver of a son who will inevitably get into an accident with a car that will flatten like a pancake against anything American. It would be much wiser to get his son a gently used Mustang or GTO. But, with this very particular and asinine set of circumstances, probably I would get him a Corolla Sprinter, that might actually be under $2k.

[Patridam]

This Is all true. However, you have to be a blind man not to notice that cars from certain countries usually have a certain set of traits when compared to other cars from their segments.

American cars are usually the cheaper option and have good equipment, but are built of cheaper materials and have mediocre at best reliability.

Italian cars are usually fun to drive, but rust-prone and unreliable.

French cars are usually comfortable, well-equipped and safe, but unreliable and underpowered.

Etc.

Of course, this is the usual outcome, not the only one, but is frequent enough that these sterotypes have a right to exist.

If you pulled this kind of stereotype bullshit with human beings, you'd be rightfully called a racist. You - and damn near every auto reviewer out there - is prejudicial against a given car just because of the country the name on it comes from. You assume - based off of information that is prejudicial in the first place - that cars of a given country are "usually" a certain way. And then, without any actual practical experience with them, you prace along your merry way reaffirming the stereotype.

[Auzkhia]

The stereotypes are largely outdated, and are products from a more insular times in car culture, particularly in the 1970s to 1980s, even a bit into the 90s too, is where most stereotypes come from.

There are people still think all Hondas are like the 1979 Honda Accord, for example.

There are people think all Bimmers are like E30s. And so on, the average car is much more global, and even some of the "imports" are made in America, all with parts sourced from many parts in the world.

Car nationality, having thought about it more, is just part of the brand's image and perception, really.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine you are a middle-aged man living in 1968 Washington. You work at the customs office. Your 17-year-old son wants a sporty-looking coupe with a manual - and you would like to buy him a new one below $2000.

However,,thanks to your helpful friends at the customs, he can get a tax exempt, duty free one. This lowers the cost of import cars. Thanks to that, the options are:
- Opel Kadett 1.9 Rallye,
- Ford Cortina 1600E,
- VW Karmann Ghia Typ 14 1.6,
- Fiat 850 0.8,
- MG Midget+hardtop,
- Datsun 510 1.6.

Which one would you buy? I'd get the Datsun, as it's a reliable, fun-to-drive car.

I question as to whether ANY of these cars could be bought for below $2000, import duty or now - import duties were actually quite low (2% for everything but light trucks) in 1968 as the USA (as well as West Germany, the UK, Italy, and Japan) were part of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. He wouldn't be able to get a Karmann Ghia down from $2300 to $2000 with a 2% duty decrease.

It's also not very wise of him to stick his brand new driver of a son who will inevitably get into an accident with a car that will flatten like a pancake against anything American. It would be much wiser to get his son a gently used Mustang or GTO. But, with this very particular and asinine set of circumstances, probably I would get him a Corolla Sprinter, that might actually be under $2k.

OK, then the best choice would be a Ford Cortina 2-door with some extras. That was below $2k, if I remember well. It's a bigger, more powerful car.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine you are a 21-year-old man, living in 1972 Washington (the city, not the state). You have a decent job in the customs, so you want to replace your 1968 Ford Cortina with a newer, more expensive, brand-new car. You want a 2-door car with a manual. The options in your budget are:
- Chevrolet Nova 5.0 3-speed,
- Pontiac Ventura 4.1 4-speed,
- Ford Maverick 4.1,
- Mercury Comet 3.3,
- Plymouth Duster 5.2 4-speed,
- Dodge Dart Demon 5.2 4-speed,
- AMC Gremlin 5.0 4-speed
- Toyota Corona 1.6 4-speed,
- Triumph Spitfire+hardtop,
- Datsun 510 1.6,
- Mazda RX-2 5-speed.

Which one would you buy? I think the Plymouth Duster is the best, due to a large interior, decent handling and a good warranty.

[GreatestBanks]

Imagine you are a 21-year-old man, living in 1972 Washington (the city, not the state). You have a decent job in the customs, so you want to replace your 1968 Ford Cortina with a newer, more expensive, brand-new car. You want a 2-door car with a manual. The options in your budget are:
- Chevrolet Nova 5.0 3-speed,
- Pontiac Ventura 4.1 4-speed,
- Ford Maverick 4.1,
- Mercury Comet 3.3,
- Plymouth Duster 5.2 4-speed,
- Dodge Dart Demon 5.2 4-speed,
- AMC Gremlin 5.0 4-speed
- Toyota Corona 1.6 4-speed,
- Triumph Spitfire+hardtop,
- Datsun 510 1.6,
- Mazda RX-2 5-speed.

Which one would you buy? I think the Plymouth Duster is the best, due to a large interior, decent handling and a good warranty.

Probs the Duster as well. Maybe give it the gold trim option.

[Petrolheadia]

What are the most popular first cars where you live?

In Puławy, the typical car is a second-hand German midsizer or compact, e.g. BMW E36/E46, VW Passat Mk5, VW Golf Mk3 or Ford Mondeo Mk3. They usually have petrol or diesel engines below 2.0 litres.

[GreatestBanks]

What are the most popular first cars where you live?

In Puławy, the typical car is a second-hand German midsizer or compact, e.g. BMW E36/E46, VW Passat Mk5, VW Golf Mk3 or Ford Mondeo Mk3. They usually have petrol or diesel engines below 2.0 litres.

In my neighborhood I'd say the most common are 2010 and newer Mercedes E-Classes. Next most popular would be Honda Accord or the Suburban/Yukon/Escalade triplets.

Lots of Mercedes Benzs and SUVs.

[Petrolheadia]

What are the most popular first cars where you live?

In Puławy, the typical car is a second-hand German midsizer or compact, e.g. BMW E36/E46, VW Passat Mk5, VW Golf Mk3 or Ford Mondeo Mk3. They usually have petrol or diesel engines below 2.0 litres.

In my neighborhood I'd say the most common are 2010 and newer Mercedes E-Classes. Next most popular would be Honda Accord or the Suburban/Yukon/Escalade triplets.

Lots of Mercedes Benzs and SUVs.

"Who buys a fifty-thousand dollar car for a sixteen-year-old kid? Just who are you trying to impress!?" - Ms. Hatzilakos.

[Auzkhia]

What are the most popular first cars where you live?

In Puławy, the typical car is a second-hand German midsizer or compact, e.g. BMW E36/E46, VW Passat Mk5, VW Golf Mk3 or Ford Mondeo Mk3. They usually have petrol or diesel engines below 2.0 litres.

First cars?

It's varied, you have the usual compact sedans like the Honda Civics, Accords, Toyota Corollas, Ford Foci, Chevy Cavaliers, VW Jettas, Dodge Neons and etc.
Some midsize sedans like Toyota Camry, Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable; sometimes, there are some SUVs, but they are smaller ones like Toyota RAV4s, Honda CRVs, Ford Escapes, and Subaru Foresters.

There are some special stuff like Minis, Audis, BMWs, for the rich kids, because my home is in the richest county in the Commonwealth of PA.

[Auzkhia]

In my neighborhood I'd say the most common are 2010 and newer Mercedes E-Classes. Next most popular would be Honda Accord or the Suburban/Yukon/Escalade triplets.

Lots of Mercedes Benzs and SUVs.

"Who buys a fifty-thousand dollar car for a sixteen-year-old kid? Just who are you trying to impress!?" - Ms. Hatzilakos.

Rich parents.

I remember seeing brand new Audis at the parking of my high school.