The NationStates Feminist Thread II

[Val Halla]

That's true

But putting DV in as a gender issue, at least in my opinion, does lead to a sort of segregated mentality where people want to make sure they specifically are cared for and that they should be prioritised. Us versus them does not solve problems like this, and putting in a gendered narrative leads to that

Put a gendered approach maybe in treating individual victims. But tackling the issue as a whole, I don't think it's so wise

Like I said, our approach, currently, sucks balls. But, for example, a gender approach makes certain that a woman can open up to another woman about her issues. Or a man open up to another man about his. Right now, yes, it looks like ''us vs them'', but if properly done, a gendered approach doesn't need to create this problem.

Perhaps I need to reword it.

Victims should probably receive a gendered sort of help. More personal imo

As a whole though, I do believe that prevention should not be gender centric.

Gender centricity can lead to wonky laws. See the UK for example.

Also going to use this as a slight against Tony Blair because that shit was brought in under him

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That's the reason why you now sport a metal plate on the left side of your skull too. My mother's aim is that direct and awesome.

Insensitive, horrific, horrible, terrible, choose whichever of those, I think you and I understand each other on this.

That's only because she managed to hit me with the turkey and I was too slow to move.

And did I nurse you back to health? Was I insensitive to your abuse plight? Didn't I tell you not to comment on my mom's turkey failings? That was insensitive of you.

[Tahar Joblis]

Interesting thing about that - male on female LIFETIME victims are higher, while female on male 1 year victims are higher.

Which may mean this is a new trend, or it may be a factor that society pressures men to be anything in the world except victims, and because of memory rewrite, they eventually mentally erase themselves as victims. Memory gets fallible over time, especially after about a year.

The latter seems more likely to me.

The general pattern of out-of-whack recent / lifetime victimization ratios persists to some degree across just about every single form of victimization that I've found cross-gender comparisons of recent and lifetime rates on. Men almost always have a lower lifetime:recent ratio than women.

Not always the same ratio, but there's a clear general trend.

Other than men engaging in repression and denial, there are other factors that could be used to help explain the gap. For example, women may rehearse memories of victimization more often than other types of memories (e.g., talking about having been victimized) and therefore are remembering the fact of the victimization at a selectively high rate compared to ordinary memories (which really tend to drop like flies out of our fallible human brains).

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Like I said, our approach, currently, sucks balls. But, for example, a gender approach makes certain that a woman can open up to another woman about her issues. Or a man open up to another man about his. Right now, yes, it looks like ''us vs them'', but if properly done, a gendered approach doesn't need to create this problem.

Perhaps I need to reword it.

Victims should probably receive a gendered sort of help. More personal imo

As a whole though, I do believe that prevention should not be gender centric.

Gender centricity can lead to wonky laws. See the UK for example.

Also going to use this as a slight against Tony Blair because that shit was brought in under him

Our current systems suck and there are a lot of inequities. But when it comes to help, particularly on the ''opening up'' phase, gendered approaches are probably best. When it comes to campaigning, probably a gender neutral approach is better.

[Val Halla]

Perhaps I need to reword it.

Victims should probably receive a gendered sort of help. More personal imo

As a whole though, I do believe that prevention should not be gender centric.

Gender centricity can lead to wonky laws. See the UK for example.

Also going to use this as a slight against Tony Blair because that shit was brought in under him

Our current systems suck and there are a lot of inequities. But when it comes to help, particularly on the ''opening up'' phase, gendered approaches are probably best. When it comes to campaigning, probably a gender neutral approach is better.

Exactly.

I think that when law making is talked about, gender needs to go away. I don't care if you're a feminist or MRA, you shouldn't be bringing up gender into that debate. It just causes a mess. Messes are bad.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Our current systems suck and there are a lot of inequities. But when it comes to help, particularly on the ''opening up'' phase, gendered approaches are probably best. When it comes to campaigning, probably a gender neutral approach is better.

Exactly.

I think that when law making is talked about, gender needs to go away. I don't care if you're a feminist or MRA, you shouldn't be bringing up gender into that debate. It just causes a mess. Messes are bad.

The issue here is that this becomes an agenda on both sides. And when you are just trying to advance an agenda, you usually forget or ignore that victims are we all. No matter if you have a vagina or a penis, no matter if you're cis or trans. No matter if you're black or white or Asian or Middle Eastern. No matter if you're a man or a woman.

[Ostroeuropa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_mainstreaming

Consider how much all the constant pandering toward women is.
You CANNOT blame patriarchy for this anymore.

It's fucking feminism doing it. Their ideology DOESNT DELIVER EQUALITY.

Our governments have been actively fucking trying to deliver gender equality and have infested themselves with feminists to tell them how to do it.

The ideology IS a fucking supremacy movement, and the results are plain to see.

They CLAIM it takes both perspectives into account, but has that been the case?
And consider, whos advice will they take on these issues?

The governments have been listening and pandering to feminists, and not only have men been fucked by it, womens situation has barely improved.
When do we throw these people into the dustbin of history?

[Val Halla]

Exactly.

I think that when law making is talked about, gender needs to go away. I don't care if you're a feminist or MRA, you shouldn't be bringing up gender into that debate. It just causes a mess. Messes are bad.

The issue here is that this becomes an agenda on both sides. And when you are just trying to advance an agenda, you usually forget or ignore that victims are we all. No matter if you have a vagina or a penis, no matter if you're cis or trans. No matter if you're black or white or Asian or Middle Eastern. No matter if you're a man or a woman.

Mhm. While ignorance to male victims of domestic assault is very bad, I don't think it's wise to let it blur lines. The gendered approach is for education and treatment, but for legislation and the rest of the technicalities...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_mainstreaming

Consider how much all the constant pandering toward women is.
You CANNOT blame patriarchy for this anymore.

It's fucking feminism doing it. Their ideology DOESNT DELIVER EQUALITY.

Our governments have been actively fucking trying to deliver gender equality and have infested themselves with feminists to tell them how to do it.

The ideology IS a fucking supremacy movement, and the results are plain to see.

I'm not a feminist. I think your claims about feminism are ridiculous.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

So I read a PDF...and damn was it surprising. When the men called to report their victimization they were thought to be the batterers, or the cops did nothing! Fucking A bullshit from society all around. Dealing with domestic violence ought to be implemented in a way that doesn't demonize any gender and funded in a way that doesn't give gynocentrists and transphobes the opportunity to deprive male and transgender victims of the help they need. Among other authoritarian shitbags, that is.

[Ostroeuropa]

The issue here is that this becomes an agenda on both sides. And when you are just trying to advance an agenda, you usually forget or ignore that victims are we all. No matter if you have a vagina or a penis, no matter if you're cis or trans. No matter if you're black or white or Asian or Middle Eastern. No matter if you're a man or a woman.

Mhm. While ignorance to male victims of domestic assault is very bad, I don't think it's wise to let it blur lines. The gendered approach is for education and treatment, but for legislation and the rest of the technicalities...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_mainstreaming

Consider how much all the constant pandering toward women is.
You CANNOT blame patriarchy for this anymore.

It's fucking feminism doing it. Their ideology DOESNT DELIVER EQUALITY.

Our governments have been actively fucking trying to deliver gender equality and have infested themselves with feminists to tell them how to do it.

The ideology IS a fucking supremacy movement, and the results are plain to see.

I'm not a feminist. I think your claims about feminism are ridiculous.

Which ones specifically?
I just linked you something that backs this specific claim.

[Galloism]

So I read a PDF...and damn was it surprising. When the men called to report their victimization they were thought to be the batterers, or the cops did nothing! Fucking A bullshit from society all around. Dealing with domestic violence ought to be implemented in a way that doesn't demonize any gender and funded in a way that doesn't give gynocentrists and transphobes the opportunity to deprive male and transgender victims of the help they need. Among other authoritarian shitbags, that is.

If you were reading the PDF I linked to, you'll notice the vast majority of the time, nothing happens, and that when something does happen, men are more likely to be arrested as victims than female perpetrators are.

That's all manner of fucked up.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The issue here is that this becomes an agenda on both sides. And when you are just trying to advance an agenda, you usually forget or ignore that victims are we all. No matter if you have a vagina or a penis, no matter if you're cis or trans. No matter if you're black or white or Asian or Middle Eastern. No matter if you're a man or a woman.

Mhm. While ignorance to male victims of domestic assault is very bad, I don't think it's wise to let it blur lines. The gendered approach is for education and treatment, but for legislation and the rest of the technicalities...

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

[Ostroeuropa]

So I read a PDF...and damn was it surprising. When the men called to report their victimization they were thought to be the batterers, or the cops did nothing! Fucking A bullshit from society all around. Dealing with domestic violence ought to be implemented in a way that doesn't demonize any gender and funded in a way that doesn't give gynocentrists and transphobes the opportunity to deprive male and transgender victims of the help they need. Among other authoritarian shitbags, that is.

The problem is that feminists have institutionally captured most of the establishment. You won't get shit done while that's the case. There needs to be a purge.

[Val Halla]

Mhm. While ignorance to male victims of domestic assault is very bad, I don't think it's wise to let it blur lines. The gendered approach is for education and treatment, but for legislation and the rest of the technicalities...


I'm not a feminist. I think your claims about feminism are ridiculous.

Which ones specifically?
I just linked you something that backs this specific claim.

How feminism is like a supremacy movement, and it's inherently misandrist, etc

Institualised, it can lead to a mess. This is true. But supremacy? No. Just a mess.

[Galloism]

Mhm. While ignorance to male victims of domestic assault is very bad, I don't think it's wise to let it blur lines. The gendered approach is for education and treatment, but for legislation and the rest of the technicalities...

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

Except a joke is supposed to be funny.

This is more like having petulant child in the captain's chair of an airliner.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

Except a joke is supposed to be funny.

This is more like having petulant child in the captain's chair of an airliner.

Dude, like, you know what I meant. o.o

[Lansuo]

Mhm. While ignorance to male victims of domestic assault is very bad, I don't think it's wise to let it blur lines. The gendered approach is for education and treatment, but for legislation and the rest of the technicalities...

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

Remove TERFS and Radfems who indulge in dialectical materialism.

Because oh boy do they ever make the discourse vile and toxic for everyone else.

[Galloism]

Except a joke is supposed to be funny.

This is more like having petulant child in the captain's chair of an airliner.

Dude, like, you know what I meant. o.o

I do.

The radfems that have gained the institutional are....

blech. There's so much say.

[Val Halla]

Mhm. While ignorance to male victims of domestic assault is very bad, I don't think it's wise to let it blur lines. The gendered approach is for education and treatment, but for legislation and the rest of the technicalities...

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

It'd be a joke if it wasn't effecting anything negatively. It sort of is...

It's kinda like, what people do. People inherently look to the extreme to justify their beliefs. Like rich people pointing towards working class criminals to paint all working class people as delinquents, or hardline anti feminists pointing to RadFems to paint all feminists as crazy female supremacists. Not really something that can be stopped fully

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

It'd be a joke if it wasn't effecting anything negatively. It sort of is...

It's kinda like, what people do. People inherently look to the extreme to justify their beliefs. Like rich people pointing towards working class criminals to paint all working class people as delinquents, or hardline anti feminists pointing to RadFems to paint all feminists as crazy female supremacists. Not really something that can be stopped fully

Oh FFS, you know what I mean by the ''joke'' thing. Literally, turned it into something disreputable and laughable. No patience tonight to get on a merry-go-round of semantics. Take my statement in whatever way you want.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_mainstreaming

Consider how much all the constant pandering toward women is.
You CANNOT blame patriarchy for this anymore.

It's fucking feminism doing it. Their ideology DOESNT DELIVER EQUALITY.

Our governments have been actively fucking trying to deliver gender equality and have infested themselves with feminists to tell them how to do it.

The ideology IS a fucking supremacy movement, and the results are plain to see.

They CLAIM it takes both perspectives into account, but has that been the case?
And consider, whos advice will they take on these issues?

The governments have been listening and pandering to feminists, and not only have men been fucked by it, womens situation has barely improved.
When do we throw these people into the dustbin of history?

When the people who have the power to consign them to it see it as plainly as you do. I would just declare that it has served its' purpose, and now we have more work to do and some new people to do it.

So I read a PDF...and damn was it surprising. When the men called to report their victimization they were thought to be the batterers, or the cops did nothing! Fucking A bullshit from society all around. Dealing with domestic violence ought to be implemented in a way that doesn't demonize any gender and funded in a way that doesn't give gynocentrists and transphobes the opportunity to deprive male and transgender victims of the help they need. Among other authoritarian shitbags, that is.

If you were reading the PDF I linked to, you'll notice the vast majority of the time, nothing happens, and that when something does happen, men are more likely to be arrested as victims than female perpetrators are.

That's all manner of fucked up.

I did read the one you linked me. There needs to be more done about this; there needs to be an outcry on this matter.

So I read a PDF...and damn was it surprising. When the men called to report their victimization they were thought to be the batterers, or the cops did nothing! Fucking A bullshit from society all around. Dealing with domestic violence ought to be implemented in a way that doesn't demonize any gender and funded in a way that doesn't give gynocentrists and transphobes the opportunity to deprive male and transgender victims of the help they need. Among other authoritarian shitbags, that is.

The problem is that feminists have institutionally captured most of the establishment. You won't get shit done while that's the case. There needs to be a purge.

Indeed there does.

[Ostroeuropa]

Mhm. While ignorance to male victims of domestic assault is very bad, I don't think it's wise to let it blur lines. The gendered approach is for education and treatment, but for legislation and the rest of the technicalities...

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

Jesus fucking christ.
Stop it.
Just stop it.

You honestly think you can reclaim WHITE POWER!!!!?

No?

Why do you think feminism should be any different? Because you're a woman and it hasn't personally fucked up your life? Well, its not your decision on whether that's massively fucking offensive. Go ahead, call yourself a feminist in front of me again and remember what that implies.
Pretend this wasn't always inevitable from the get go because of how fucking gynocentrist even the fucking name is, let alone the founding principles and dogmas.

The history of the movement is riddled with gynocentrism and bullshit toward men. ALL YOU ARE DOING is providing cover for them, so they can say "Well not all feminists are like that, and that's why my castrate the men bill isn't like all those feminazis you listed."
You are a necessary part of this. You are a vital cog in the wheel of oppression here.
Your behavior is ruining lives because you refuse to give up a fucking label.
is it THAT important to you?

I've seen absolutely NOTHING to suggest this is anything but wishful thinking about how we can reason down the murdering psychopath and play bongo drums with him.
No, fuck that.
He needs to be dealt with in a way that stops him hurting anyone else immediately.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

Jesus fucking christ.
Stop it.
Just stop it.

You honestly think you can reclaim WHITE POWER!!!!?

No?

Why do you think feminism should be any different? Because you're a woman and it hasn't personally fucked up your life? Well, its not your decision on whether that's massively fucking offensive. Go ahead, call yourself a feminist in front of me again and remember what that implies.
Pretend this wasn't always inevitable from the get go because of how fucking gynocentrist even the fucking name is, let alone the founding principles and dogmas.

The history of the movement is riddled with gynocentrism and bullshit toward men. ALL YOU ARE DOING is providing cover for them, so they can say "Well not all feminists are like that, and that's why my castrate the men bill isn't like all those feminazis you listed."
You are a necessary part of this. You are a vital cog in the wheel of oppression here.
Your behavior is ruining lives because you refuse to give up a fucking label.
is it THAT important to you?

I've seen absolutely NOTHING to suggest this is anything but wishful thinking about how we can reason down the murdering psychopath and play bongo drums with him.
No, fuck that.
Kill the bastard.

You make so much noise and say nothing of import. Really. Stop it.

[Galloism]

Jesus fucking christ.
Stop it.
Just stop it.

You honestly think you can reclaim WHITE POWER!!!!?

No?

Why do you think feminism should be any different? Because you're a woman and it hasn't personally fucked up your life? Well, its not your decision on whether that's massively fucking offensive. Go ahead, call yourself a feminist in front of me again and remember what that implies.
Pretend this wasn't always inevitable from the get go because of how fucking gynocentrist even the fucking name is, let alone the founding principles and dogmas.

The history of the movement is riddled with gynocentrism and bullshit toward men. ALL YOU ARE DOING is providing cover for them, so they can say "Well not all feminists are like that, and that's why my castrate the men bill isn't like all those feminazis you listed."
You are a necessary part of this. You are a vital cog in the wheel of oppression here.
Your behavior is ruining lives because you refuse to give up a fucking label.
is it THAT important to you?

I've seen absolutely NOTHING to suggest this is anything but wishful thinking about how we can reason down the murdering psychopath and play bongo drums with him.
No, fuck that.
Kill the bastard.

You make so much noise and say nothing of import. Really. Stop it.

I'm reminded of Macbeth.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You make so much noise and say nothing of import. Really. Stop it.

I'm reminded of Macbeth.

Behehehehe, appropriate!