The NationStates Feminist Thread II

[Ostroeuropa]

You make so much noise and say nothing of import. Really. Stop it.

Absolutely bloody pointless. You merely pretend to care about mens issues. Here I am, outright telling you why what you are proposing is counter productive, harming men, a necessary component for institutional feminists to do their work, and offensive on top of that, and what's your response?
"Lalala i'm not listening".
Well okay then.

[Lansuo]

Moderate feminists need to take the wheel away from radical feminists who, honestly and IMO, have completely turned feminism into a joke.

Jesus fucking christ.
Stop it.
Just stop it.

You honestly think you can reclaim WHITE POWER!!!!?

No?

Why do you think feminism should be any different? Because you're a woman and it hasn't personally fucked up your life? Well, its not your decision on whether that's massively fucking offensive. Go ahead, call yourself a feminist in front of me again and remember what that implies.
Pretend this wasn't always inevitable from the get go because of how fucking gynocentrist even the fucking name is, let alone the founding principles and dogmas.

The history of the movement is riddled with gynocentrism and bullshit toward men. ALL YOU ARE DOING is providing cover for them, so they can say "Well not all feminists are like that, and that's why my castrate the men bill isn't like all those feminazis you listed."
You are a necessary part of this. You are a vital cog in the wheel of oppression here.
Your behavior is ruining lives because you refuse to give up a fucking label.
is it THAT important to you?

I've seen absolutely NOTHING to suggest this is anything but wishful thinking about how we can reason down the murdering psychopath and play bongo drums with him.
No, fuck that.
He needs to be dealt with in a way that stops him hurting anyone else immediately.

Your stance also promotes the perpetuation of the unhealthy aspects of the discourse. Chill.

[Galloism]

You make so much noise and say nothing of import. Really. Stop it.

Absolutely bloody pointless. You merely pretend to care about mens issues. Here I am, outright telling you why what you are proposing is counter productive, harming men, a necessary component for institutional feminists to do their work, and offensive on top of that, and what's your response?
"Lalala i'm not listening".
Well okay then.

You're being very distinctly unfair here, making accusations about things you know nothing about.

Oh right, that's not unusual.

Carry on.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You make so much noise and say nothing of import. Really. Stop it.

Absolutely bloody pointless. You merely pretend to care about mens issues. Here I am, outright telling you why what you are proposing is counter productive, harming men, a necessary component for institutional feminists to do their work, and offensive on top of that, and what's your response?
"Lalala i'm not listening".
Well okay then.

I have absolutely nothing to prove to you.

[Val Halla]

You make so much noise and say nothing of import. Really. Stop it.

Absolutely bloody pointless. You merely pretend to care about mens issues. Here I am, outright telling you why what you are proposing is counter productive, harming men, a necessary component for institutional feminists to do their work, and offensive on top of that, and what's your response?
"Lalala i'm not listening".
Well okay then.

I'm curious how you reached the conclusion that Nana doesn't care about men's issues? Is it because you're generalising all feminists based on what you saw some radfem say one time? Because certain members of the other side...

[Galloism]

Absolutely bloody pointless. You merely pretend to care about mens issues. Here I am, outright telling you why what you are proposing is counter productive, harming men, a necessary component for institutional feminists to do their work, and offensive on top of that, and what's your response?
"Lalala i'm not listening".
Well okay then.

I'm curious how you reached the conclusion that Nana doesn't care about men's issues? Is it because you're generalising all feminists based on what you saw some radfem say one time? Because certain members of the other side...

Horseshoe theory at work, ladies and gentlemen.

[Ostroeuropa]

Absolutely bloody pointless. You merely pretend to care about mens issues. Here I am, outright telling you why what you are proposing is counter productive, harming men, a necessary component for institutional feminists to do their work, and offensive on top of that, and what's your response?
"Lalala i'm not listening".
Well okay then.

You're being very distinctly unfair here, making accusations about things you know nothing about.

Oh right, that's not unusual.

Carry on.

Alright, sure. Maybe she does care. You're right. it's possible that it's just one oversight.
But i'm pretty sure that it's not unfair to comment that wandering around in a klan suit suggests you don't give a fuck about black people.
Is it possible you do and just don't realize or care about what you're doing? Sure.
It's theoretically possible a veritable martin luther king could have done so.

But that wouldn't make the comment unfair. It would just make it a bizarre circumstance.

[Galloism]

But i'm pretty sure that it's not unfair to comment that wandering around in a klan suit suggests you don't give a fuck about black people.

Not comparable.

Comparatively, you're saying anyone who votes moderately left is basically expressing agreement with Stalin. It doesn't work. It won't work. No matter how much you assert it, it will never work.

[Ostroeuropa]

Absolutely bloody pointless. You merely pretend to care about mens issues. Here I am, outright telling you why what you are proposing is counter productive, harming men, a necessary component for institutional feminists to do their work, and offensive on top of that, and what's your response?
"Lalala i'm not listening".
Well okay then.

I'm curious how you reached the conclusion that Nana doesn't care about men's issues? Is it because you're generalising all feminists based on what you saw some radfem say one time? Because certain members of the other side...

Because I know a sizable number of men who find the idea of "reclaiming" feminism outright offensive, and i'm one of them, since it whitewashes the history of the movement and harkens back to a time that never existed, to values it never held, etc.
it's sort of like "reclaiming" the klan as a nationalist movement for america like it was historically, as we are taught by the wonderful movie inherit the wind.

That was a lie.
They lied to you.
it's just a racist organization, it was never anything else.
No, you can't reclaim it, please stop wearing bedsheets, you're unnerving the black people and giving cover for actual racists.
You don't care? Um...

Okay, I flipped out a bit there i'll admit, I still hold the view, but I could have phrased it better, so i'm sorry for that Nan. I'm in a bit of a state at the moment and should probably go.

[Galloism]

I'm in a bit of a state at the moment and should probably go.

I'm not sure how we were ever supposed to tell the difference, but if you think you're too much in a state to post well, it's generally best to take a break.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'm curious how you reached the conclusion that Nana doesn't care about men's issues? Is it because you're generalising all feminists based on what you saw some radfem say one time? Because certain members of the other side...

Because I know a sizable number of men who find the idea of "reclaiming" feminism outright offensive, and i'm one of them, since it whitewashes the history of the movement and harkens back to a time that never existed, to values it never held, etc.
it's sort of like "reclaiming" the klan as a nationalist movement for america like it was historically, as we are taught by the wonderful movie inherit the wind.

That was a lie.
They lied to you.
it's just a racist organization, it was never anything else.
No, you can't reclaim it, please stop wearing bedsheets, you're unnerving the black people and giving cover for actual racists.
You don't care? Um...

Okay, I flipped out a bit there i'll admit, I still hold the view, but I could have phrased it better, so i'm sorry for that Nan. I'm in a bit of a state at the moment and should probably go.

We've all been there. Go clear your mind.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm in a bit of a state at the moment and should probably go.

I'm not sure how we were ever supposed to tell the difference, but if you think you're too much in a state to post well, it's generally best to take a break.

Okay fuck it. I'm taking a holiday.

It's more a case of being too much of a state to deal with this crap anymore. I might get banned if I continue posting but that's not it. I'm close to giving up in general on this whole thing. Like you said, i'm tired. I'm tired and hysterical at the same time, and when i'm not, i'm crying out of empathy. During the day I volunteer and at night I argue online, I go to party meetings, I write letters, I donate. I do everything I fucking can and nothing makes a dent in it. I thought i'd be able to get by knowing I helped some but it's not enough. I can practically fucking feel the others out there. So I get ill and miss days, then feel like shit for missing days.

And it doesn't matter how much I argue, or rephrase my arguments, or what I try. Some people just don't get it. It's not just the feminist label thing. There's so much, and so many, it's overwhelming.

And i've started hating myself lately for feeling like this, which is what I was too ashamed to post earlier.

I get so tired of it too. I think my resolve is cracking. I just want to give up. I'll say there's four lights, 2+2=5. Please, make me believe it. I don't want to do this anymore. Take it away from me. It was just me and a dozen others. There aren't hundreds of thousands, millions, not getting help because of you people. I don't want to do it anymore. It's hurting my humanity and my empathy. I don't want to know these things. I want to be able to read the news or watch television again. I want to believe what you do. I want to be able to think i'm telling the truth without everyone hating me for it. I don't care if they're out there anymore, I just don't want to know. Make me believe it. I give up, you win.

I honestly feel that way. I can't do this anymore. I have to try ignoring it for a while. It's going to kill me otherwise. I'm taking a holiday, and I might not be back, I dunno. I might check in once or twice out of morbid curiosity to see replies to this, but that's it.

[Nariterrr]

I'm not sure how we were ever supposed to tell the difference, but if you think you're too much in a state to post well, it's generally best to take a break.

Okay fuck it. I'm taking a holiday.

It's more a case of being too much of a state to deal with this crap anymore. I might get banned if I continue posting but that's not it. I'm close to giving up in general on this whole thing. Like you said, i'm tired. I'm tired and hysterical at the same time, and when i'm not, i'm crying out of empathy. During the day I volunteer and at night I argue online, I go to party meetings, I write letters, I donate. I do everything I fucking can and nothing makes a dent in it. I thought i'd be able to get by knowing I helped some but it's not enough. I can practically fucking feel the others out there. So I get ill and miss days, then feel like shit for missing days.

And it doesn't matter how much I argue, or rephrase my arguments, or what I try. Some people just don't get it. It's not just the feminist label thing. There's so much, and so many, it's overwhelming.

And i've started hating myself lately for feeling like this, which is what I was too ashamed to post earlier.

I get so tired of it too. I think my resolve is cracking. I just want to give up. I'll say there's four lights, 2+2=5. Please, make me believe it. I don't want to do this anymore. Take it away from me. It was just me and a dozen others. There aren't hundreds of thousands, millions, not getting help because of you people. I don't want to do it anymore. It's hurting my humanity and my empathy. I don't want to know these things. I want to be able to read the news or watch television again. I want to believe what you do. I want to be able to think i'm telling the truth without everyone hating me for it. I don't care if they're out there anymore, I just don't want to know. Make me believe it. I give up, you win.

I honestly feel that way. I can't do this anymore. I have to try ignoring it for a while. It's going to kill me otherwise. I'm taking a holiday, and I might not be back, I dunno. I might check in once or twice out of morbid curiosity to see replies to this, but that's it.

Not saying this in a rude way or anything but if General is bothering you, you should take a long break. Sit down, relax, maybe even meditate. That's what I do when I'm stressed. If you sincerely cannot do this, there is no reason to force yourself to do it. I'd say the best remedy is to chillax for a while.

[Galloism]

I'm not sure how we were ever supposed to tell the difference, but if you think you're too much in a state to post well, it's generally best to take a break.

Okay fuck it. I'm taking a holiday.

It's more a case of being too much of a state to deal with this crap anymore. I might get banned if I continue posting but that's not it. I'm close to giving up in general on this whole thing. Like you said, i'm tired. I'm tired and hysterical at the same time, and when i'm not, i'm crying out of empathy. During the day I volunteer and at night I argue online, I go to party meetings, I write letters, I donate. I do everything I fucking can and nothing makes a dent in it. I thought i'd be able to get by knowing I helped some but it's not enough. I can practically fucking feel the others out there. So I get ill and miss days, then feel like shit for missing days.

And it doesn't matter how much I argue, or rephrase my arguments, or what I try. Some people just don't get it. It's not just the feminist label thing. There's so much, and so many, it's overwhelming.

And i've started hating myself lately for feeling like this, which is what I was too ashamed to post earlier.

I get so tired of it too. I think my resolve is cracking. I just want to give up. I'll say there's four lights, 2+2=5. Please, make me believe it. I don't want to do this anymore. Take it away from me. It was just me and a dozen others. There aren't hundreds of thousands, millions, not getting help because of you people. I don't want to do it anymore. It's hurting my humanity and my empathy. I don't want to know these things. I want to be able to read the news or watch television again. I want to believe what you do. I want to be able to think i'm telling the truth without everyone hating me for it. I don't care if they're out there anymore, I just don't want to know. Make me believe it. I give up, you win.

I honestly feel that way. I can't do this anymore. I have to try ignoring it for a while. It's going to kill me otherwise. I'm taking a holiday, and I might not be back, I dunno. I might check in once or twice out of morbid curiosity to see replies to this, but that's it.

Given that there may be no one on this forum who argues on behalf of male victims of rape and domestic violence as hard as I do, I take umbrage at being referred to as "you people" in this context.

However, I was there a couple of years ago. Ready to give up everything just to make the despair stop.

So I get that.

I still think you'd tarring with a brush approximately as broad as the continental divide, but I *do* get the despair you feel. Advocacy is not easy.

[Kelinfort]

*redacted*

[Kelinfort]

I'm not sure how we were ever supposed to tell the difference, but if you think you're too much in a state to post well, it's generally best to take a break.

Okay fuck it. I'm taking a holiday.

It's more a case of being too much of a state to deal with this crap anymore. I might get banned if I continue posting but that's not it. I'm close to giving up in general on this whole thing. Like you said, i'm tired. I'm tired and hysterical at the same time, and when i'm not, i'm crying out of empathy. During the day I volunteer and at night I argue online, I go to party meetings, I write letters, I donate. I do everything I fucking can and nothing makes a dent in it. I thought i'd be able to get by knowing I helped some but it's not enough. I can practically fucking feel the others out there. So I get ill and miss days, then feel like shit for missing days.

And it doesn't matter how much I argue, or rephrase my arguments, or what I try. Some people just don't get it. It's not just the feminist label thing. There's so much, and so many, it's overwhelming.

And i've started hating myself lately for feeling like this, which is what I was too ashamed to post earlier.

I get so tired of it too. I think my resolve is cracking. I just want to give up. I'll say there's four lights, 2+2=5. Please, make me believe it. I don't want to do this anymore. Take it away from me. It was just me and a dozen others. There aren't hundreds of thousands, millions, not getting help because of you people. I don't want to do it anymore. It's hurting my humanity and my empathy. I don't want to know these things. I want to be able to read the news or watch television again. I want to believe what you do. I want to be able to think i'm telling the truth without everyone hating me for it. I don't care if they're out there anymore, I just don't want to know. Make me believe it. I give up, you win.

I honestly feel that way. I can't do this anymore. I have to try ignoring it for a while. It's going to kill me otherwise. I'm taking a holiday, and I might not be back, I dunno. I might check in once or twice out of morbid curiosity to see replies to this, but that's it.

It's a forum, man. I've been fucking pissed at what people post too, in fact, you've infuriated me in the (albeit over a year ago) past.

But you know what? I don't get angry anymore. I'm wasting my fucking energy getting mad at idiots on the internet. I'd rather be happy and blow off steam killing cartoonish depictions of mercenaries rather than keep getting mad at people's opinions.

[New Edom]

I get the burnout. It's a stage i went through; it's very frustrating.

The majority of feminists seem to see any criticism of feminism as being anti-feminist these days, and many supporters of feminism see the same thing.

I remember talking to a good friend, who insisted that the death threats against Anita Sarkeesian (let's not open that can of worms for a moment though) proved that there was rampant misogyny in the gaming community.

I pointed out that if we took that to be true that it still didn't prove anything, that one person's reprehensible behavior didn't make another person on the side of the angels.

This is the hard thing to accept: that many people who share your broad ideals can be stupid, arrogant and shallow in their thinking. That what you believe ought to be true is really just a concept or set of concepts. That just because say you believein evolutionary theory doesn't make you smart. That just because you believe in Jesus Christ sdoesn't make you a righteous person. So feminists may say so all they like, but they don't own the concept of equality, even for women.

I suspect Ostro struggles with the loneliness of standing alone against people who are just mouting latitudes and typing catch phrases to make themselves feel a part of what supposedly everyone they think of as decent believes. They ahvent thought about it, they prefer not to think about it.

I have another point of view. I've noticed how often there is a wall of silence when i ask hard questions. like not one feminist said "this is my plan" when I asked what they wanted practically done about rape culture. This is because there is no real plan. it's just ideological emotionalism. Hard facts, insistence on integrity and accountability and being ready to pin them down at a moment's notice. I also advocate not voting for people if they have a feminist agenda, and making it clear that you will not. Most ordinary people are just intimidated by them; they're a minority. Expose them for the lying hypocritical fanatics they are. If there are moderates, let them pick a side at last and choose humanity over their stupid ideology. It's time.

[Reagan-land]

oh my god real live feminists. I thought you only saw these people on tumblr

[Reagan-land]

Okay fuck it. I'm taking a holiday.

It's more a case of being too much of a state to deal with this crap anymore. I might get banned if I continue posting but that's not it. I'm close to giving up in general on this whole thing. Like you said, i'm tired. I'm tired and hysterical at the same time, and when i'm not, i'm crying out of empathy. During the day I volunteer and at night I argue online, I go to party meetings, I write letters, I donate. I do everything I fucking can and nothing makes a dent in it. I thought i'd be able to get by knowing I helped some but it's not enough. I can practically fucking feel the others out there. So I get ill and miss days, then feel like shit for missing days.

And it doesn't matter how much I argue, or rephrase my arguments, or what I try. Some people just don't get it. It's not just the feminist label thing. There's so much, and so many, it's overwhelming.

And i've started hating myself lately for feeling like this, which is what I was too ashamed to post earlier.

I get so tired of it too. I think my resolve is cracking. I just want to give up. I'll say there's four lights, 2+2=5. Please, make me believe it. I don't want to do this anymore. Take it away from me. It was just me and a dozen others. There aren't hundreds of thousands, millions, not getting help because of you people. I don't want to do it anymore. It's hurting my humanity and my empathy. I don't want to know these things. I want to be able to read the news or watch television again. I want to believe what you do. I want to be able to think i'm telling the truth without everyone hating me for it. I don't care if they're out there anymore, I just don't want to know. Make me believe it. I give up, you win.

I honestly feel that way. I can't do this anymore. I have to try ignoring it for a while. It's going to kill me otherwise. I'm taking a holiday, and I might not be back, I dunno. I might check in once or twice out of morbid curiosity to see replies to this, but that's it.

It's a forum, man. I've been fucking pissed at what people post too, in fact, you've infuriated me in the (albeit over a year ago) past.

But you know what? I don't get angry anymore. I'm wasting my fucking energy getting mad at idiots on the internet. I'd rather be happy and blow off steam killing cartoonish depictions of mercenaries rather than keep getting mad at people's opinions.

That was a very emotional paragraph. Nation states is a very.. diverse.. website, however mostly left leaning. I don't know your politics, but it sounds like no one ever agrees with you. So just don't post. Or make a thread about your political spectrum.

edit: based on your phrase "Sexism is equality" which Is present in your signature, its obvious why no agrees with you...

[The New Age Empire]

"are you an irrational radical feminist? well here's a tip, get laid you fat piece of shit."

[Reagan-land]

"are you an irrational radical feminist? well here's a tip, get laid you fat piece of shit."

Oh I'm sure they can afford it with all the welfare money the democrat's give them, they simply can't get laid because they are the most undesirable group to mate with. Honestly, ask ANY guy you know.

[New Edom]

It's a forum, man. I've been fucking pissed at what people post too, in fact, you've infuriated me in the (albeit over a year ago) past.

But you know what? I don't get angry anymore. I'm wasting my fucking energy getting mad at idiots on the internet. I'd rather be happy and blow off steam killing cartoonish depictions of mercenaries rather than keep getting mad at people's opinions.

That was a very emotional paragraph. Nation states is a very.. diverse.. website, however mostly left leaning. I don't know your politics, but it sounds like no one ever agrees with you. So just don't post. Or make a thread about your political spectrum.

edit: based on your phrase "Sexism is equality" which Is present in your signature, its obvious why no agrees with you...

I think he's just frustrated. There is a growing frustration about feminism. Venting isn't the end of the world. Sometimes the anger helps you clear your head and you can see things more clearly.

Most people who are really frustrated by feminism used to support feminism until they found that you can do that as lnog as you never really criticize feminism objectively, at which point you are called an ignorant fool at best and a misogynist at worst.

[Reagan-land]

That was a very emotional paragraph. Nation states is a very.. diverse.. website, however mostly left leaning. I don't know your politics, but it sounds like no one ever agrees with you. So just don't post. Or make a thread about your political spectrum.

edit: based on your phrase "Sexism is equality" which Is present in your signature, its obvious why no agrees with you...

I think he's just frustrated. There is a growing frustration about feminism. Venting isn't the end of the world. Sometimes the anger helps you clear your head and you can see things more clearly.

Most people who are really frustrated by feminism used to support feminism until they found that you can do that as lnog as you never really criticize feminism objectively, at which point you are called an ignorant fool at best and a misogynist at worst.

Yeah that's an accurate depiction. I used to think everyone was a feminist until I relized the socialist, anti-men cesspool that feminism really is. its sad really, went from such a noble goal to the laughing stock of the political world. Like, North Korea levels of laughing stock.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I get the burnout. It's a stage i went through; it's very frustrating.

The majority of feminists seem to see any criticism of feminism as being anti-feminist these days, and many supporters of feminism see the same thing.

I remember talking to a good friend, who insisted that the death threats against Anita Sarkeesian (let's not open that can of worms for a moment though) proved that there was rampant misogyny in the gaming community.

I pointed out that if we took that to be true that it still didn't prove anything, that one person's reprehensible behavior didn't make another person on the side of the angels.

This is the hard thing to accept: that many people who share your broad ideals can be stupid, arrogant and shallow in their thinking. That what you believe ought to be true is really just a concept or set of concepts. That just because say you believein evolutionary theory doesn't make you smart. That just because you believe in Jesus Christ sdoesn't make you a righteous person. So feminists may say so all they like, but they don't own the concept of equality, even for women.

I suspect Ostro struggles with the loneliness of standing alone against people who are just mouting latitudes and typing catch phrases to make themselves feel a part of what supposedly everyone they think of as decent believes. They ahvent thought about it, they prefer not to think about it.

I have another point of view. I've noticed how often there is a wall of silence when i ask hard questions. like not one feminist said "this is my plan" when I asked what they wanted practically done about rape culture. This is because there is no real plan. it's just ideological emotionalism. Hard facts, insistence on integrity and accountability and being ready to pin them down at a moment's notice. I also advocate not voting for people if they have a feminist agenda, and making it clear that you will not. Most ordinary people are just intimidated by them; they're a minority. Expose them for the lying hypocritical fanatics they are. If there are moderates, let them pick a side at last and choose humanity over their stupid ideology. It's time.

One thing that truly grates about Ostro's point is not that he has it, it's that he is very quick to generalize. Yes, there are awful feminists out there, just like there are shit MRAs. But in having a point, when he generalizes, he loses ground. It's much ado about nothing, a lot of sound and fury and nothing. When he lumps every feminist in the same boat, he loses me, for example. When he is ready to cast accusations without knowing shit about what someone else is doing, I have issues with that.

It is very infuriating when he categorically says I do not care about men's issues because I identify with feminism. In reality, his point is an unfounded attack. I have nothing to prove to him or anyone about what I am doing to make a difference, which I do try. That is personal. Part of what I do and none of his business or anyone else's for that matter. Those I care about know what I'm doing.

If he's so burned out that he cannot participate in this thread without generalizing, then by all means, he should leave. Because when he's that irrational, for whatever reasons, and I don't really care what those reasons are (if you're having a breakdown, leave and return to post when you have simmered down), if it is affecting his behavior and his ability to convey a message, he should indeed leave.

He's been told this, about his fucking penchant for generalizing out of what he encounters, over and over again. It is tiresome, it adds nothing to the debate, it doesn't do a thing and yes, it makes us not want to listen to him because we've heard the accusations already, and no matter how you try to talk to him, he doesn't listen because he has already made up his mind.

[The New Age Empire]

"are you an irrational radical feminist? well here's a tip, get laid you fat piece of shit."

Oh I'm sure they can afford it with all the welfare money the democrat's give them, they simply can't get laid because they are the most undesirable group to mate with. Honestly, ask ANY guy you know.

This is the best reaction to my post I could have expected.