WBC vs Kim Davis

[Achesia]

That's not proof.

How so? get a Bible, read that part, and that is proof enough.

The bible in itself does not prove anything. No document anywhere can state absolute fact by referencing itself or by stating "It says it, so must be true" that has no basis or ground to stand on.

[The Siverian Republic]

I dont dislike heterosexual people. If you guys are really this way, that you would be heterosexual, and burn in Hell, then that is not my problem. Talk to God about it.

I mean homosexual.

[Geilinor]

Oy vey.

Can't the SCOTUS just make them do their job?

SCOTUS can't enforce the law. They just make interpret the laws.

[The Siverian Republic]

How so? get a Bible, read that part, and that is proof enough.

The bible in itself does not prove anything. No document anywhere can state absolute fact by referencing itself or by stating "It says it, so must be true" that has no basis or ground to stand on.

The Romans had him ont he cross. If you looked at their records, you should see something about that.

[Talvezout]

SCOTUS can't enforce the law. They just make the laws.

No they do not make the laws, they interpret them and settle disputes between states.

Oh.

:/

[Farnhamia]

The bible in itself does not prove anything. No document anywhere can state absolute fact by referencing itself or by stating "It says it, so must be true" that has no basis or ground to stand on.

The Romans had him ont he cross. If you looked at their records, you should see something about that.

There is no such documentation. And this entire line is irrelevant to the topic.

[Ashmoria]

So, I just heard that she's actually going to be thrown in PRISON for her actions.

I'm sorry, but as much as I despise bigots like this, that sounds like an extreme and inappropriate punishment.

Normally, if someone refuses to do their job they are fired or otherwise stripped of their office. I cannot in good conscience support imprisoning people for refusal to take actions out of "moral" conviction, unless it's something like a doctor refusing to treat a patient or some other situation where refusal to do your job puts peoples' lives at risk.

Is there any reason why she can't just be fired?

its one of the few remedies that a judge has to force compliance to his order. she isn't going to prison but is being detained until she complies with the judges order. her release is completely in her own hands. if she agrees to comply with the judge's order she will be released.

[Talvezout]

The bible in itself does not prove anything. No document anywhere can state absolute fact by referencing itself or by stating "It says it, so must be true" that has no basis or ground to stand on.

The Romans had him ont he cross. If you looked at their records, you should see something about that.

I'm a Catholic and I'm inclined to agree with you, but honestly, this isn't exactly relevant to the topic.

[The Great Domain of Eli]

So, I just heard that she's actually going to be thrown in PRISON for her actions.

I'm sorry, but as much as I despise bigots like this, that sounds like an extreme and inappropriate punishment.

Normally, if someone refuses to do their job they are fired or otherwise stripped of their office. I cannot in good conscience support imprisoning people for refusal to take actions out of "moral" conviction, unless it's something like a doctor refusing to treat a patient or some other situation where refusal to do your job puts peoples' lives at risk.

Is there any reason why she can't just be fired?

its one of the few remedies that a judge has to force compliance to his order. she isn't going to prison but is being detained until she complies with the judges order. her release is completely in her own hands. if she agrees to comply with the judge's order she will be released.

She cannot be fired because she was an elected official, therefore she either has to be impeached or resign.

[Neutraligon]

Please just make a new thread if you want to talk about the authenticity of the bible, whether the bible is true, etc.

As I mentioned before, even if the bible where true, even the that god existed as described in the bible, even if hell where real, it would still have absolutely no relevance to the the laws of a secular country.

[The Siverian Republic]

The Romans had him ont he cross. If you looked at their records, you should see something about that.

There is no such documentation. And this entire line is irrelevant to the topic.

He said that there was "no basis or ground to stand on". I gave him some.

[Neutraligon]

Here have fun all of you.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=352913

[Imperializt Russia]

Oy vey.

Can't the SCOTUS just make them do their job?

SCOTUS can't enforce the law. They just make the laws.

Well, they can rule that her claim of exception is not constitutional and therefore demand that she either carry out her job as required or resign if she will not adequately carry out that job.
I think.

[Gauthier]

No wonder it's tearing apart...

It's just shitty quality, really. And it's slowly killing us all.

Maybe the Big Bang was really another Dongying?

[Farnhamia]

SCOTUS can't enforce the law. They just make the laws.

Well, they can rule that her claim of exception is not constitutional and therefore demand that she either carry out her job as required or resign if she will not adequately carry out that job.
I think.

And what they did was refuse the appeal without comment, which sends it back to the Federal court which had already ruled against her.

[Ethel mermania]

Well, they can rule that her claim of exception is not constitutional and therefore demand that she either carry out her job as required or resign if she will not adequately carry out that job.
I think.

And what they did was refuse the appeal without comment, which sends it back to the Federal court which had already ruled against her.

Which is what they should have done. The law is pretty settled. She sits until the judge decides to let her go.

[Penguin Union Nation]

It's not persecution to be asked as a government employee to uphold the laws of the land. That's called doing your job. If she were in a private business, MAYBE you'd have a case, depending on the situation, but she is a government employee. Same-sex marriage passed the SCOTUS test, so it must be allowed to occur.

America isn't a theocracy. Our country doesn't revolve around religious beliefs, nor should it ever. People angry about this are just upset that their religion is losing the hegemony of thought it once had back when black people couldn't eat at the same counters as white people and women like Kim Davis wouldn't have even been given her position because she's a woman.

[Ashmoria]

its one of the few remedies that a judge has to force compliance to his order. she isn't going to prison but is being detained until she complies with the judges order. her release is completely in her own hands. if she agrees to comply with the judge's order she will be released.

She cannot be fired because she was an elected official, therefore she either has to be impeached or resign.

right

so she can be held in jail until she complies with the judge's order or resigns her job or is impeached out of it.

susan mcdougal sat in jail for 18 months for refusing to testify to the whitewater grand jury.

[Neutraligon]

She cannot be fired because she was an elected official, therefore she either has to be impeached or resign.

right

so she can be held in jail until she complies with the judge's order or resigns her job or is impeached out of it.

susan mcdougal sat in jail for 18 months for refusing to testify to the whitewater grand jury.

I wonder if she will continue to be paid while she is confined.

[Fartsniffage]

right

so she can be held in jail until she complies with the judge's order or resigns her job or is impeached out of it.

susan mcdougal sat in jail for 18 months for refusing to testify to the whitewater grand jury.

I wonder if she will continue to be paid while she is confined.

Don't US prisoners get the chance to earn small amounts while confined? I would hope she is afforded the same opportunities other criminals.

[Furry Alairia and Algeria]

...wow just wow.

homophobia-Dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

that clearly fulfills the definition of homophobia.

I dont dislike homosexual people. If you guys are really this way, that you would be homosexual, and burn in Hell, then that is not my problem. Talk to God about it.

I'm already going to furry hell, might as well go to another plane of non-existence.

[Tekania]

I was thinking about thid earlier and was wondering from a biblical standpoint if it is wrong to deny a gay couple marriage license.

Jesus did say to give to Caesar's what is Caesar's. Paul also said we are to obey earthly governments because has put those people in charge and those in power will be judged by God for their actions.

However, their are cases in the Bible where people disobeyed the government and it was right. Examples include the wisemen who decided not to go back to Herod after they found Jesus, Daniel refused to bow to a statue made by King Nebachadnezzer.

Paul was thrown in prison for preaching the Gospel, which was against the law.

So in some cases, it is right to disobey the government if it goes against what God commands.

The question is, is refusing a marriage license because someone believes its a sin justified?

From my opinion, no... it is not justified. It is justified for you to respond to your conscience and resign the post, sure. But to exercise the office in violation of the oath of that office is not tenable... it makes one a liar.

[Deuxtete]

Again why should the be forced to spend the time and money to go elsewhere when they have the Constitutional right to be married? Why should their rights be limited because one clerk does not understand that her freedom of religion is limited at the government office door?

You shouldn't. It's a violation of your civil rights.[/quote]

You shouldn't. It's a violation of your civil rights.

No it is not, as the person can still practice their religion when not representing the US government. As a practical necessity of obeying the Constitution and the rule of law in not having the government recognize one religion, when representing the US government, federal and state employees have their freedom of religion limited. Similarly they have their right to strike also limited.

Feel free to turn that chip on your shoulder sideways and shove it directly up your ass along with your soap box.

[Farnhamia]

No it is not, as the person can still practice their religion when not representing the US government. As a practical necessity of obeying the Constitution and the rule of law in not having the government recognize one religion, when representing the US government, federal and state employees have their freedom of religion limited. Similarly they have their right to strike also limited.

Feel free to turn that chip on your shoulder sideways and shove it directly up your ass along with your soap box.

*** Warned for flaming ***

[Tekania]

Why should they have to spend the time and money to go to a different county to get a marriage licence they are entitled to?

If the clerk is a Christian, or a religion that is against gay marriage, and the constitution has the freedom of religion, then the clerk is theoretically protected by the law. If there is a problem with that, then go somewhere else. I'm not saying I'm against gay marriage though.

No she is not, rights have their limits, and you actually surrender your rights in certain situations from taking a civil office. As the office exists to serve the people and by necessary some of your rights are curtailed while exercising the powers of that office because in those capacities you are not longer a private person, but are yourself "the government".

Such as in this case, she has the right to her personal religious convictions, but she does not have the right to exercise those religious convictions upon the people through the power of her office.... but that is exactly what she has chosen to do.