Tamir Rice: Cops did nothing wrong say experts

[Des-Bal]

It's a tragic accident in the same sense that it's a "tragic accident" if you jump into a pit of vipers and die by snake bite.

He should have known better. His parents should have known better. He should not have been at that park with that [fake] gun.

And granted that he was at that park with that [fake] gun, he should not have been threatening people.

As I had quoted earlier. "He broke the law. He paid the price."

One less thug the police will have to deal with later.

Only if you assume we are constantly surrounded by viper pits and that any deviation from a rigid standard of behavior that causes you to be killed is tantamount to jumping in. I don't believe that's the case but if it is there are larger issues. The price for breaking the law is not and should not be being shot by the police.

[Talvezout]

Alright, let's say he was pointing a gun at people, despite Des-Bal saying that it's hard to determine if he is aiming or not.

The fact that the video recording shows that he was pointing it and an eye witness says that he was pointing at people, that's good enough for me.

Does that still mean that they can drive up near the gazebo and immediately shoot the kid?

That's a prudential, on the spot decision that a policeman has to make. If he thinks that the "kid" is an active, lethal danger? You betcha. He sees the "kid" reaching for it? You betcha.

I posted it back:

The kid literally never reaches for the gun, which is supported by both witnesses and the video.

[Des-Bal]

And congrats for completely missing the point.

He didn't miss the point you just didn't realize you made it.

[Mega City 5]

Only if you assume we are constantly surrounded by viper pits and that any deviation from a rigid standard of behavior that causes you to be killed is tantamount to jumping in. I don't believe that's the case but if it is there are larger issues. The price for breaking the law is not and should not be being shot by the police.

Breaking the law in general? No. Making yourself out to be an active, lethal threat to the general public? Yup. In my book, that merits death-by-cop.

[Des-Bal]

Breaking the law in general? No. Making yourself out to be a lethal threat to the general public? Yup.

No, not at all. "Making yourself out to be" suggests intent. Assuming he was aiming the toy at people it is a hell of a leap to assume his goal was to make them believe he was a lethal threat.

[Galloism]

If police are roughly equivalent to wild snakes in temperment and safety, I suggest we take their guns away. We can't trust them.

And congrats for completely missing the point.

Here's the thing. I didn't.

I was a cop once. I talked to people who were carrying actual real life loaded weapons. I talked them into going down another path instead of shooting people. I have actually had to shoot someone - after a 6 hour standoff when things went critical. I'm one of the few people on this forum who have, I'm sure.

And you know what? I think we need to show better restraint. Collectively.

You don't just roll up and start shooting.

[Des-Bal]

I posted it back:

The kid literally never reaches for the gun, which is supported by both witnesses and the video.

He did however make motions that a reasonable person in the heat of the moment could mistake for reaching for the toy. A kid I went to school with was shot by a gang member for similar reasons.

[Talvezout]

He did not "have it coming." This was a tragic accident.

It's a tragic accident in the same sense that it's a "tragic accident" if you jump into a pit of vipers and die by snake bite.

He should have known better. His parents should have known better. He should not have been at that park with that [fake] gun.

And granted that he was at that park with that [fake] gun, he should not have been threatening people.

As I had quoted earlier. "He broke the law. He paid the price."

One less thug the police will have to deal with later.

Dear lord

He's not a thug

He may be a 12 year old kid who was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, who made a wrong decision, but he's not a thug for crying out loud

If making one, possibly questionable choice in a situation where most people would panic constitutes a thug now, then there's something extremely wrong.

[Talvezout]

I posted it back:

The kid literally never reaches for the gun, which is supported by both witnesses and the video.

He did however make motions that a reasonable person in the heat of the moment could mistake for reaching for the toy. A kid I went to school with was shot by a gang member for similar reasons.

I'll assent to that, I'll admit.

That being said, and if it's alright if I ask, was the kid who got shot alright in the end?

[Des-Bal]

I'll assent to that, I'll admit.

That being said, and if it's alright if I ask, was the kid who got shot alright in the end?

Yes, he was nine when he was shot and fifteen when I met him. Also on the subject of youth and thuggery he was in the gang with the guy that shot him.

[Talvezout]

I'll assent to that, I'll admit.

That being said, and if it's alright if I ask, was the kid who got shot alright in the end?

Yes, he was nine when he was shot and fifteen when I met him. Also on the subject of youth and thuggery he was in the gang with the guy that shot him.

Oh.

I sincerely hope he's alright now though.

[Des-Bal]

Oh.

I sincerely hope he's alright now though.

He got hit in the arm and I didn't notice any problems. He played football.

[Topid]

It's a tragic accident in the same sense that it's a "tragic accident" if you jump into a pit of vipers and die by snake bite.

He should have known better. His parents should have known better. He should not have been at that park with that [fake] gun.

And granted that he was at that park with that [fake] gun, he should not have been threatening people.

As I had quoted earlier. "He broke the law. He paid the price."

One less thug the police will have to deal with later.

Only if you assume we are constantly surrounded by viper pits and that any deviation from a rigid standard of behavior that causes you to be killed is tantamount to jumping in. I don't believe that's the case but if it is there are larger issues. The price for breaking the law is not and should not be being shot by the police.

Not pointing things that looks like a real gun at people is not that rigid of a standard of behavior. Indeed, just about up there with not jumping in a snake pit. I'm not going to blame the kid because I actually took the orange cap off of one of my cap guns when I was about that age to make my make believe more believable also, I just had to keep it hidden from my parents at all times and would have never taken it to the park. (My parents would have killed me if they knew I did that. )

It is very sad, but the cops did nothing wrong. I commend them for doing what they should do to keep us safe, next time the gun will be real. Twelve year-old children really do kill people.

[Talvezout]

Oh.

I sincerely hope he's alright now though.

He got hit in the arm and I didn't notice any problems. He played football.

Good for him. i know it's getting annoying by now but I'm honestly being sincere

That being said, I've got to get up early tomorrow, so night y'all.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Because he had a gun. Which is legal. Weird.

Which he had already shown a willingness to brandish and use to threaten people.

Because we all know blacks with weapons are just a blatant threat to public order. *nods*

[Prussia-Steinbach]

If police are roughly equivalent to wild snakes in temperment and safety, I suggest we take their guns away. We can't trust them.

And congrats for completely missing the point.

Fairly addressing the issue at hand isn't "missing the point," contrary to what some may say.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

It's a tragic accident in the same sense that it's a "tragic accident" if you jump into a pit of vipers and die by snake bite.

Yes, that's a totally fair comparison to being a black child in public.

He should have known better. His parents should have known better. He should not have been at that park with that [fake] gun.

Them Negroes need to start educating themselves, am I right?

And granted that he was at that park with that [fake] gun, he should not have been threatening people.

I'm rather intimidated by dark skinned individuals as well.

As I had quoted earlier. "He broke the law. He paid the price."

Just like those pesky natives. Maybe if they hadn't existed, we wouldn't have needed a Trail of Tears.

Law = morality. *nods*

One less thug the police will have to deal with later.

Ah, for the good ol' days. This would've never happened if he'd have been in the cotton fields with a whip on his back since his toddler years.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

That's a prudential, on the spot decision that a policeman has to make. If he thinks that the "kid" is an active, lethal danger? You betcha. He sees the "kid" reaching for it? You betcha.

I mean, we know both of those things aren't true, because we have a video, but sure, okay.

[Des-Bal]

Because we all know blacks with weapons are just a blatant threat to public order. *nods*

I know it's like every time people see a black person points a gun at someone it becomes a big deal. And if you're black don't even try eating a baby, those racist fucks jump right on it.

[Galloism]

Because we all know blacks with weapons are just a blatant threat to public order. *nods*

I know it's like every time people see a black person points a gun at someone it becomes a big deal. And if you're black don't even try eating a baby, those racist fucks jump right on it.

You know what's funny?

In similar situations, and even much worse situations, the police seem to magically show restraint when it comes to white people. It's sort of funny, you know? Some of us have questions why in similar questionable situations, black people get shot, while white people don't.

[Gauthier]

I know it's like every time people see a black person points a gun at someone it becomes a big deal. And if you're black don't even try eating a baby, those racist fucks jump right on it.

You know what's funny?

In similar situations, and even much worse situations, the police seem to magically show restraint when it comes to white people. It's sort of funny, you know? Some of us have questions why in similar questionable situations, black people get shot, while white people don't.

And DB claims to be black, so sounds like it's a rather ingrained attitude.

[Liriena]

The sheer amount of casually expressed racist condescension in this thread is worrisome.

[Liriena]

I know it's like every time people see a black person points a gun at someone it becomes a big deal. And if you're black don't even try eating a baby, those racist fucks jump right on it.

You know what's funny?

In similar situations, and even much worse situations, the police seem to magically show restraint when it comes to white people. It's sort of funny, you know? Some of us have questions why in similar questionable situations, black people get shot, while white people don't.

For instance.

[Mega City 5]

You know what's funny?

In similar situations, and even much worse situations, the police seem to magically show restraint when it comes to white people. It's sort of funny, you know? Some of us have questions why in similar questionable situations, black people get shot, while white people don't.

This reasoning, as I've expressed often to an atheist/social liberal acquaintance of mine, simply does not and cannot work. There is no such thing as "similar questionable situations." Being is analogous. Every concrete instance is unique. There's always these particular policemen dealing with these particular criminals in these particular circumstances. Each and every instance requires a judgment of prudence.

That's what social liberals, and most especially the BLM race baiters, just can't seem to understand.

Earlier, you mentioned your own time as a police officer and the times that you talked people out of brandishing guns.

Fine. That's what those particular circumstances, in your practical judgment, called for.

That's not what every circumstance calls for according to the practical judgment of every police officer.

My stepfather told me about a guy who was walking through a walmart with a rifle that he was thinking about buying (from Wal-mart, of course). Some prankster calls the police and tells thema guy with a loaded rifle threatening people, wanting to play a joke on the guy. Police come in and shoot him as soon as they see him.

Was this the wrong call? No. Based on what they knew, the safest and most reasonable course of action was to make neutralizing the threat as quickly and safely as possible their primary goal.

[United States of Conner]

You know what's funny?

In similar situations, and even much worse situations, the police seem to magically show restraint when it comes to white people. It's sort of funny, you know? Some of us have questions why in similar questionable situations, black people get shot, while white people don't.

This reasoning, as I've expressed often to an atheist/social liberal acquaintance of mine, simply does not and cannot work. There is no such thing as "similar questionable situations." Being is analogous. Every concrete instance is unique. There's always these particular policemen dealing with these particular criminals in these particular circumstances. Each and every instance requires a judgment of prudence.

That's what social liberals, and most especially the BLM race baiters, just can't seem to understand.

The fact that Eric Garner and Michael Brown were shot dozens of times while unarmed but a white mass shooter was arrested - during said active shooting - without harm is ridiculous, and you know it. Police are issued tasers for a reason.

But they were thugs, so it was okay, right?

Earlier, you mentioned your own time as a police officer and the times that you talked people out of brandishing guns. Fine. That's what those particular circumstances, in your practical judgment, called for.

That's not what every circumstance calls for.

My stepfather told me about a guy who was walking through a walmart with a rifle that he was thinking about buying (from Wal-mart, of course). Some prankster calls the police and tells them about an active shooter (or some such thing), wanting to play a joke on the guy. Police come in and shoot him as soon as they see him.

Was this the wrong call? No. Based on what they knew, the safest and most reasonable course of action was to make neutralizing the threat as quickly and safely as possible their primary goal.

It sure as hell was the wrong call. First, establish that it is an active shooter. Then, attempt to use nonlethal force first.

The police force in this country is not supposed to shoot first and ask questions later, because we are not in the Dredd universe, not are we an authoritarian police state. Move to North Korea if that's what you want.