BLM chants "Pigs in a blanket" after Texas cop killed

[Liriena]

Whatever flaws the BLM movement itself may or may not have doesn't change the fact that police brutality against racial minorities is a very real thing.

And reversely while that is true, it doesn't change the fact that progressives are becoming the embodiment of the horseshoe theory.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[The Heart of Hypatia]

And reversely while that is true, it doesn't change the fact that progressives are becoming the embodiment of the horseshoe theory.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

That's me told.

[Threlizdun]

Basically every comment in this thread proves why the Black Lives Matters movement is needed. Routine killings of unarmed people of color by the police continue, and little is done by those with power or privilege to stop it. Communities and schools continue to employ de facto segregation. The War on Drugs and Prison Industrial Complex work to keep the black community down and force them into the hellish confines of prison for profit. All of these heinous crimes against humanity continue, but when a group victimized for centuries expresses some satisfaction for someone part of an organization that is largely responsible for the victimization and oppression being killed, people began exclaiming that the black community are the ones that are in the wrong and worthy of punishment. No, I am not saying that cop killing is good, but I am saying that not understanding why some people would be happy about the death of someone they associate with oppression is ridiculous. People are acting like this somehow works to discount the entire movement. How the hell does this deligitimize the movement, but the continued killings of unarmed people of color not deligitimize the system we live under? People are weighing the death of a cop as significantly more important the ending of countless black lives. That is the whole damn point of this movement. You are proving the slogan true. "Black Lives Matter". We don't say that because black lives matter more than other lives, but because people seem incapable of accepting the fact that black lives do matter, and they matter just as much as any other life. Were these people wrong for celebrating this? Hell yes. Does that make everything they've been fighting for illegitimate? Hell no. This is pathetic, and a bunch of people on here that try to act like "mindful progressives" have shown their true colors on this thread.
No, the Black Panthers were not a hate group. The Black Panther Party for Self Defense was just that, a group advocating for self defense of the black community against their oppressors. These oppressors were not all white people, but merely those perpetuating the oppressive institutions of racism and capitalism. They were not black separatists or black supremacists. They were a group of people who said that when the black community was attacked, they had a right to defend themselves. Keep in mind what this time was like. People were preaching peaceful protest, but those peaceful protesters were being killed. Many of their members came from nonviolence groups who came to feel, with great justification, that the legal means of seeking change within the system were being denied to them. These weren't people arguing for killing others because of the color of their skin like the Klan, but saying that after centuries of oppression and little progress that enough was enough. Try putting yourself in the position of an African American in the 1960's. You are denied the right to participate in society as those with a lighter skin pigmentation than yours are allowed to. If you try to do anything about this, you will likely get beaten, arrested, or killed. Even if you do nothing, you will likely be beaten, arrested, or killed. Denying your rights is government policy. You can't vote to bring changes because voting rights are denied to you. How long would you be able to take that? It is impossible to be able to look back at the situation with genuine empathy towards those suffering in it and not understand the appeal of the Panthers. It is particularly hard not to when they routinely ran charities providing food, clothing, and education to those in poverty.

You're ignoring very critical points, namely that (not due to skin color but rather subculture) the black communities are so riddled with gang culture that any attempts to either bring the community out of terrible conditions and/or eliminate racial tensions is rendered defunct. With such outrageous crime that, while certainly started due to an institution against them, is perpetuated in large part by themselves.
There are so many, as what many blacks would describe as "Uncle Tom"s that embraced "white" (as if law-abiding abd productive citizenry is confined to a race) that do so well, if not better than whites due to AA, that it's ridiculous to think that many of their modern problems aren't caused by community values.
Ignore the disproportionate white-on-black crime, the black-on-black crime is so absurd it looks like a distasteful joke. If you think black lives matter, which I'm sure we all do, it isn't cops you should be screaming with a crowd to kill. It's gang culture.

Gang culture is a product of the oppression, poverty, and alienation faced by the black community. Cultures don't develop in a vacuum; they are the natural products of their environment. To end gang culture, we must first end the oppressive situations that give rise to it.

[Jamzmania]

You're ignoring very critical points, namely that (not due to skin color but rather subculture) the black communities are so riddled with gang culture that any attempts to either bring the community out of terrible conditions and/or eliminate racial tensions is rendered defunct. With such outrageous crime that, while certainly started due to an institution against them, is perpetuated in large part by themselves.
There are so many, as what many blacks would describe as "Uncle Tom"s that embraced "white" (as if law-abiding abd productive citizenry is confined to a race) that do so well, if not better than whites due to AA, that it's ridiculous to think that many of their modern problems aren't caused by community values.
Ignore the disproportionate white-on-black crime, the black-on-black crime is so absurd it looks like a distasteful joke. If you think black lives matter, which I'm sure we all do, it isn't cops you should be screaming with a crowd to kill. It's gang culture.

Gang culture is a product of the oppression, poverty, and alienation faced by the black community. Cultures don't develop in a vacuum; they are the natural products of their environment. To end gang culture, we must first end the oppressive situations that give rise to it.

They already have ended, but this "gang culture" has only gotten worse.

[Threlizdun]

Gang culture is a product of the oppression, poverty, and alienation faced by the black community. Cultures don't develop in a vacuum; they are the natural products of their environment. To end gang culture, we must first end the oppressive situations that give rise to it.

They alrwAdy have ended, but this "gang culture" has only gotten worse.

It clearly has not ended. If had ended, we would not keep hearing about unarmed people of color being killed by the police. The U.S. Department of Justice has recognized the pervasiveness of racist cultures and institutions among the police force. De facto segregation of schools and neighborhoods continue. Acts to try to further disenfranchise people of color are working in full force. To argue that racist and oppressive institutions no longer exist in our society is to ignore reality.

[Jamzmania]

They alrwAdy have ended, but this "gang culture" has only gotten worse.

It clearly has not ended. If had ended, we would not keep hearing about unarmed people of color being killed by the police. The U.S. Department of Justice has recognized the pervasiveness of racist cultures and institutions among the police force. De facto segregation of schools and neighborhoods continue. Acts to try to further disenfranchise people of color are working in full force. To argue that racist and oppressive institutions no longer exist in our society is to ignore reality.

To say that they do still exist is to push a narrative that is harmful to society while also denying reality. I've only heard of a couple of incidents of shot unarmed blacks, and at least one was totally justified and another is being charged with murder.

[Liriena]

It clearly has not ended. If had ended, we would not keep hearing about unarmed people of color being killed by the police. The U.S. Department of Justice has recognized the pervasiveness of racist cultures and institutions among the police force. De facto segregation of schools and neighborhoods continue. Acts to try to further disenfranchise people of color are working in full force. To argue that racist and oppressive institutions no longer exist in our society is to ignore reality.

To say that they do still exist is to push a narrative that is harmful to society while also denying reality.

Harmful how?

I've only heard of a couple of incidents of shot unarmed blacks, and at least one was totally justified and another is being charged with murder.

In other words, you did not do your research before concluding that there was no institutional racism.

[Jamzmania]

To say that they do still exist is to push a narrative that is harmful to society while also denying reality.

Harmful how?

I've only heard of a couple of incidents of shot unarmed blacks, and at least one was totally justified and another is being charged with murder.

In other words, you did not do your research before concluding that there was no institutional racism.

You don't think that creating a polarized society where "the man" is to blame for all your problems isn't harmful? And even if there were more instances of police shootings involving unarmed (but not harmless) blacks, that is still not proof of so-called institutional racism.

[Liriena]

Harmful how?


In other words, you did not do your research before concluding that there was no institutional racism.

You don't think that creating a polarized society where "the man" is to blame for all your problems isn't harmful?

I think that vague fearmongering does not justify remaining silent on the continued unfair treatment of millions of people at the hands of authorities.

And even if there were more instances of police shootings involving unarmed (but not harmless) blacks, that is still not proof of so-called institutional racism.

True... but the DOJ's report already proved that there was institutional racism in how Ferguson authorities treated African Americans in the community, and other sources have found evidence of similar problems elsewhere. In Baltimore, for instance, there was a vast amount of recorded cases of police misconduct towards African Americans before Freddie Gray's death.

[Jamzmania]

You don't think that creating a polarized society where "the man" is to blame for all your problems isn't harmful?

I think that vague fearmongering does not justify remaining silent on the continued unfair treatment of millions of people at the hands of authorities.

And even if there were more instances of police shootings involving unarmed (but not harmless) blacks, that is still not proof of so-called institutional racism.

True... but the DOJ's report already proved that there was institutional racism in how Ferguson authorities treated African Americans in the community, and other sources have found evidence of similar problems elsewhere. In Baltimore, for instance, there was a vast amount of recorded cases of police misconduct towards African Americans before Freddie Gray's death.

Police misconduct towards suspects, more likely, regardless of their race. Keep in mind that Baltimore is majority black and is run by blacks.

Holder's DOJ's report seemed to show excessive fining and tickets for revenue, however I'm not sure that counts as institutional racism.

[Neu California]

I think that vague fearmongering does not justify remaining silent on the continued unfair treatment of millions of people at the hands of authorities.


True... but the DOJ's report already proved that there was institutional racism in how Ferguson authorities treated African Americans in the community, and other sources have found evidence of similar problems elsewhere. In Baltimore, for instance, there was a vast amount of recorded cases of police misconduct towards African Americans before Freddie Gray's death.

Police misconduct towards suspects, more likely, regardless of their race. Keep in mind that Baltimore is majority black and is run by blacks.

Holder's DOJ's report seemed to show excessive fining and tickets for revenue, however I'm not sure that counts as institutional racism.

Holder's DOJ report also showed a highly disproportionate number of blacks being stopped without probable cause, being charged with crimes that are largely at the police's discretion far more often than whites, being subject to use of force far more than whites as a percentage, and white being far more likely to have charges dismissed than blacks, never mind the highly racially charged emails. I posted a link to the DOJ report earlier in the thread if you want to read all 105 pages of it, but here's a summary, courtesy of the NYT, and a second summary from USA todays.

[Hyfling]

"SJW" is an abbreviated way of saying "People who point out something I'm comfortable with as social injustice and won't shut up about it." It's also the cool new Emmanuel Goldstein.

SJWs are the progressives who are obsessed with perceived injustice. Emphasis on perceived.

For me, it's always been: if you can replace the word 'whites', 'males' or 'cissexuals' in someones comment with 'Jews', and the result sounds like something straight out of Mein Kamph, then you've got yourself a SJW.

But it's a pretty young term with dozens of definitions. More often than not it's used as a snarl, it seems.

[Hyfling]

When they devolved into a morass of conflicting political viewpoints (from communists to anarcho-capitalists) and failed to provide a unified list of demands. Without a leader, or some kind of central organiser, your movement has no weight or purpose.

It just became an impotent whingefest, vaguely directed at 'the 1%'

I suppose BLM has done marginally better in that regard, at least they've managed to raise some awareness about a legit social issue, not just getting pissy when the economy went bad.

Economic inequality is a legit social issue, and it still hasn't been fixed.

I'll admit that Occupy got sidetracked and went to shit. But that doesn't change the fact they started with a legitimate issue.

I do agree, I think OWS did a very poor job of communicating that, though.

Like I said, I think BLM has at least managed to bring these issues to the media and community as a whole before gradually turning to shit. Unlike OWS, which was almost immediately hijacked (even organised by) by a bunch of wannabe Che Guvera's who thought they were taking part in the next revolution.

[Liriena]

I think that vague fearmongering does not justify remaining silent on the continued unfair treatment of millions of people at the hands of authorities.


True... but the DOJ's report already proved that there was institutional racism in how Ferguson authorities treated African Americans in the community, and other sources have found evidence of similar problems elsewhere. In Baltimore, for instance, there was a vast amount of recorded cases of police misconduct towards African Americans before Freddie Gray's death.

Police misconduct towards suspects, more likely, regardless of their race. Keep in mind that Baltimore is majority black and is run by blacks.

...and this proves that there's no institutional racism because...?

Holder's DOJ's report seemed to show excessive fining and tickets for revenue, however I'm not sure that counts as institutional racism.

Methinks you didn't read the report thoroughly.

[Grave_n_idle]

You don't think that creating a polarized society where "the man" is to blame for all your problems isn't harmful?

Blame Reagan. America has been struggling with the idea that government is the enemy ever since.

Is there anything Reagan didn't destroy?

[Grave_n_idle]

It clearly has not ended. If had ended, we would not keep hearing about unarmed people of color being killed by the police. The U.S. Department of Justice has recognized the pervasiveness of racist cultures and institutions among the police force. De facto segregation of schools and neighborhoods continue. Acts to try to further disenfranchise people of color are working in full force. To argue that racist and oppressive institutions no longer exist in our society is to ignore reality.

To say that they do still exist is to push a narrative that is harmful to society while also denying reality. I've only heard of a couple of incidents of shot unarmed blacks, and at least one was totally justified and another is being charged with murder.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... -americans

I'm not advocating the killing of police men, but acting outraged about one dead cop while ignoring the deaths of literally hundreds of their victims is ridiculous.

[Liriena]

You don't think that creating a polarized society where "the man" is to blame for all your problems isn't harmful?

Blame Reagan. America has been struggling with the idea that government is the enemy ever since.

Is there anything Reagan didn't destroy?

The military-industrial complex?

[Paddy O Fernature]

To say that they do still exist is to push a narrative that is harmful to society while also denying reality. I've only heard of a couple of incidents of shot unarmed blacks, and at least one was totally justified and another is being charged with murder.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... -americans

I'm not advocating the killing of police men, but acting outraged about one dead cop while ignoring the deaths of literally hundreds of their victims is ridiculous.

Being outraged over a killing of a man who had absolutely nothing to do with the bullshit going on currently, who was gunned down in cold blood for no fucking logical reason, is hardly ridiculous.

[Grave_n_idle]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... -americans

I'm not advocating the killing of police men, but acting outraged about one dead cop while ignoring the deaths of literally hundreds of their victims is ridiculous.

Being outraged over a killing of a man who had absolutely nothing to do with the bullshit going on currently, who was gunned down in cold blood for no fucking logical reason, is hardly ridiculous.

Interesting choice of words.

Are you suggesting that all the people who have been illed by police this year HAVE been something 'to do with the bullshit going on currently'?

That unarmed kid shot in his car a few days back... are you arguing that was NOT for 'no logical reason' or 'in cold blood'?

I think you're drawing an artificial distinction that makes cop lives more valuable than anyone else, and blames everyone else for getting shot.

[The Lone Alliance]

They alrwAdy have ended, but this "gang culture" has only gotten worse.

It clearly has not ended. If had ended, we would not keep hearing about unarmed people of color being killed by the police.

Are you saying that the subject 'has' to be armed in order to justify killing them? Quit acting like unarmed = Helpless

The U.S. Department of Justice has recognized the pervasiveness of racist cultures and institutions among the police force.

Has anyone done any studies 'why' this is?
Or are we just expected to believe that the moment a cop gets a bad they suddenly start hating black people because of some 'institution'?

If we're going to talk about racism in the police it's time to figure out 'why' they're racist, and saying they're all closet White Supremacists isn't going to cut it.

I haven't seen any studies either way but I theorize that it's more racial stereotypes made 'justified' up by negative experiences over white supremacy.

As psychology has showed, repeated negative experiences with something will will cause a person to internalize negative feelings towards said something.

Unless the cops are fortunate enough to be in a racially homogeneous area their primary experience with the Black Community will be dealing with criminals from said community, this causes them to only see the negative stereotypes which would just reinforce it. I can't think of any way the BLM movement can solve this above issue.

De facto segregation of schools and neighborhoods continue.

Wrong, it's class segregation, middle class people don't want to live next to poor people period because of the negative stereotypes associated with poor people, namely criminality.

Now which culture glorifies criminality again? Gang Culture.

Acts to try to further disenfranchise people of color are working in full force. To argue that racist and oppressive institutions no longer exist in our society is to ignore reality.

And to not realize that Gang Culture in itself helps to reinforce said institutions is to ignore reality.

I'm not saying the BLM movement is wrong and I'm saying people should try and tar all of the BLM because of these people is wrong as well but I don't think there's a simple answer here.

[West Dixieland]

Please explain further

Police misconduct specifically targetting African Americans is something that has been thoroughly documented, and clearly is leading to an awful lot of innocent people suffering and/or dying. Rather than actually tackle this problem, however, you instead chose to shift the focus to the mother of all vacuous, thinly veiled apologist buzz terms that is "thug culture". "Thug culture" is glorified pseudo-anthropology that solely exists to further the sort of diversion you are trying to pull off in a debate about police misconduct towards African Americans.

I'm sorry. You're right. We shouldn't hold police officers to higher standards than gangsters.

Also, thanks for further demonstrating that I was right in calling your post what it is: a red herring.
Activists and public figures have already addressed gang violence over the years, and will probably continue to do so. And contrary to the premise your fallacy of relative privation relies on, African Americans can and do actually tackle more than one problem at once.

If you want to talk about gang violence, feel free to start a thread about it, but don't cynically use gang violence as part of your flagrant ploy to shut down a much needed debate on police misconduct towards African Americans.

If you actually cared about gang violence and African American victims of it, you wouldn't be using it to try to derail a discussion on police misconduct against African Americans.

>thug culture is glorified pseudo-anthropology
How's New England or whatever gang-less region you come from?

I get where you're coming from now though, and I respect it. Cops committing murder is disgusting and deserves the harshest punishment. The reactions to these comparatively low phenomenon compared to other killings, like rioting, doesn't stem from white racism, it stems from skewed community values.

[West Dixieland]

You're ignoring very critical points, namely that (not due to skin color but rather subculture) the black communities are so riddled with gang culture that any attempts to either bring the community out of terrible conditions and/or eliminate racial tensions is rendered defunct. With such outrageous crime that, while certainly started due to an institution against them, is perpetuated in large part by themselves.
There are so many, as what many blacks would describe as "Uncle Tom"s that embraced "white" (as if law-abiding abd productive citizenry is confined to a race) that do so well, if not better than whites due to AA, that it's ridiculous to think that many of their modern problems aren't caused by community values.
Ignore the disproportionate white-on-black crime, the black-on-black crime is so absurd it looks like a distasteful joke. If you think black lives matter, which I'm sure we all do, it isn't cops you should be screaming with a crowd to kill. It's gang culture.

Gang culture is a product of the oppression, poverty, and alienation faced by the black community. Cultures don't develop in a vacuum; they are the natural products of their environment. To end gang culture, we must first end the oppressive situations that give rise to it.

correct, and as our society clearly moves away from this, ending Jim Crow and ushering in civil rights, the "white" part of society fulfills its end.
This must dually be matched with sharp calls from the black community to end gang culture. These voices exist of course, but they aren't loud enough and aren't be answered well enough.

[Arlenton]

Let them say it, it makes them look stupid (not that any reasonable person doubts this).

[New Ogunquit]

I feel like this is what you get when you mix activism with the modern age.

This is exactly the kind of shit that fucked black people in earlier decades and handed the right wing their coup among the white working class.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... osely.html

This kind of shit will just repeat the problem. What's crazy is it doesn't even represent black people, but they'll pretend it does in the media and bam.
A whole new generation of republicans.

Very interesting...

[Liriena]

Police misconduct specifically targetting African Americans is something that has been thoroughly documented, and clearly is leading to an awful lot of innocent people suffering and/or dying. Rather than actually tackle this problem, however, you instead chose to shift the focus to the mother of all vacuous, thinly veiled apologist buzz terms that is "thug culture". "Thug culture" is glorified pseudo-anthropology that solely exists to further the sort of diversion you are trying to pull off in a debate about police misconduct towards African Americans.

If you actually cared about gang violence and African American victims of it, you wouldn't be using it to try to derail a discussion on police misconduct against African Americans.

>thug culture is glorified pseudo-anthropology
How's New England or whatever gang-less region you come from?

It's called Argentina.

I get where you're coming from now though, and I respect it. Cops committing murder is disgusting and deserves the harshest punishment. The reactions to these comparatively low phenomenon compared to other killings, like rioting, doesn't stem from white racism, it stems from skewed community values.

"Skewed community values" that owe an awful lot to the history behind those communities, a history that prominently features centuries of institutional racism at its core.