Astounding Immorality of Islam: Allah's "Rewards" in Heaven

[Gauthier]

Ah, okay. I'm not a Christian myself, so I'm not overly familiar with scripture.

I follow a couple atheist youtube channels, who tend to point these passages out on occasion. The bible has its share of good passages too, but people conveniently skim over the unpleasant stuff when it comes to Christianity, and focus heavily on it when talking about Islam. I bet if you compared the books like-for-like, they wouldn't be far off one another in terms of the good, the bad and the down-right ugly.

It was a different time. We've moved on from stoning people to death. Er. Mostly.

That would be news. Someone stoned to death in Colorado.

[Transoxthraxia]

Like Zoroastrianism or Manichaeism at the hands of Islam.

Whereas Christian missionaries peacefully urged natives all across the globe to abandon their native religions and convert willingly.

Believe me, I'm not endorsing Christianity as an innocent religion. As half-Latvian, my ancestors were probably forced to convert to Catholicism or faced with death during the Baltic Crusades.

[Atelia]

Funny, the tone of the thread hasn't been "There's a problem with fundamentalism and radicalism in Islam and we need everyone to solve that problem." It's been more like "Islam is a violent, immoral religion and it needs to be done away with by any means."

What is wrong with wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.

Christianity, as I hear from here.
http://content.animalnewyork.com/wp-content/uploads/russians.jpg
http://ahamot.org/wp-content/uploads/rUSSIAN-oRTHODOX-EROTICS1.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qpE5hNwi618/TDsY6op-FdI/AAAAAAAAH8I/tE4k4V8UaH0/s1600/orthodoxy+or+death+main.jpg

Now am I fundamentally opposed to Orthodoxy and Christianity as a whole? No, I dont.

[The Alma Mater]

Yes, I mentioned that earlier.
I also mentioned that he has a point that Islam is really very, very, very vague on the afterlife for women while it is lyrical about that for men.

And it's an Abrahamic religion. The whole thing starts off with "Bitch Got Us Kicked Out of Paradise," so it pretty much sets the tone for how they're going to view women.

Oh, I can fully understand women getting a less nice afterlife based on that view. And I guess that "if you are pious, you will not be one of the whores who will be raped over and over again forever and ever" can be seen as a "reward" of sorts.

It just seems rather.. lacking.

[Kar-Esseria]

It does?

The Old Testament (which, IIRC, is pretty heavily taken from Judaism) is pretty brutal.
Brother dies? His wife is yours if you want it. Kill a guy in a war? His shit is now yours. This includes wives, daughters, harems, mothers, slaves, wives' slaves and certain female pets.

The Old Testament only applies to Jews, not Christians.

Nice try, though.

[Jamzmania]

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?

Deuteronomy 13:1-18 ESV

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. ...

Not very well versed in the Old Testament myself, but just looking at that passage it doesn't seem to dictate that all nonbelievers must be put to death, but it seems to refer specifically to false prophets trying to deliberately mislead the Israelites (who already believed in God).

[Transoxthraxia]

The Old Testament (which, IIRC, is pretty heavily taken from Judaism) is pretty brutal.
Brother dies? His wife is yours if you want it. Kill a guy in a war? His shit is now yours. This includes wives, daughters, harems, mothers, slaves, wives' slaves and certain female pets.

The Old Testament only applies to Jews, not Christians.

Nice try, though.

Hrm, no.

[Avalon]

Christians in the west, particularly America, love to resort to the bible to enforce their sexist beliefs to trample women's rights, freedoms and life.

lol OP says pretty much: Islam is immoral, and then gives us some quotes we can talk about but your answer is: Christianity bla bla. A different religion, a different world, don't you realise Christianity is not the topic at hand? If Allah is or is not immoral then he is because of what he supposedly does or says not because there is another religion you don't like.

Geez, why people do that, I will never understand...

[Lordieth]

I follow a couple atheist youtube channels, who tend to point these passages out on occasion. The bible has its share of good passages too, but people conveniently skim over the unpleasant stuff when it comes to Christianity, and focus heavily on it when talking about Islam. I bet if you compared the books like-for-like, they wouldn't be far off one another in terms of the good, the bad and the down-right ugly.

It was a different time. We've moved on from stoning people to death. Er. Mostly.

That would be news. Someone stoned to death in Colorado.

This is just as much as cultural problem as it is a religion one. Christianity moved on. Islam, in some areas of the world, didn't.

[The Alma Mater]

Not very well versed in the Old Testament myself, but just looking at that passage it doesn't seem to dictate that all nonbelievers must be put to death, but it seems to refer specifically to false prophets trying to deliberately mislead the Israelites (who already believed in God).

Just read the rest of Deuteronomy. It contains about a dozen verses telling that "nonbelievers should die" in various words. The message is really quite clear.

[Atelia]

The Old Testament (which, IIRC, is pretty heavily taken from Judaism) is pretty brutal.
Brother dies? His wife is yours if you want it. Kill a guy in a war? His shit is now yours. This includes wives, daughters, harems, mothers, slaves, wives' slaves and certain female pets.

The Old Testament only applies to Jews, not Christians.

Nice try, though.

What? All of the bible matters, son.

[The Alma Mater]

The Old Testament (which, IIRC, is pretty heavily taken from Judaism) is pretty brutal.
Brother dies? His wife is yours if you want it. Kill a guy in a war? His shit is now yours. This includes wives, daughters, harems, mothers, slaves, wives' slaves and certain female pets.

The Old Testament only applies to Jews, not Christians.

Nice try, though.

According to the new testament, Jesus explicitly said the laws of the old testament still apply. Not one iota was changed.

[Jamzmania]

The Old Testament (which, IIRC, is pretty heavily taken from Judaism) is pretty brutal.
Brother dies? His wife is yours if you want it. Kill a guy in a war? His shit is now yours. This includes wives, daughters, harems, mothers, slaves, wives' slaves and certain female pets.

The Old Testament only applies to Jews, not Christians.

Nice try, though.

Not necessarily. The difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is that the New Testament, containing the coming of Jesus, is about the fulfilling of the old covenant and the creation of a new covenant. That is why circumcision, animal sacrifice, etc. are not required of Christians. However, certain laws, especially the Ten Commandments, are still relevant to Christians.

Overall, the message of Christ (and Christianity) is one of forgiveness, love, and tolerance.

[Lordieth]

The Old Testament only applies to Jews, not Christians.

Nice try, though.

What? All of the bible matters, son.

Not to those who conveniently quote-mine it to suit their own agenda. Nobody follows the bible word-for-word. Nobody.

[Gauthier]

No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.

No religion in the world has ever been subject to intense, global criticism and open debate before. It is only in modern times, with the advent of the Internet and instant communication, that we have a chance of organizing a global information campaign against Islam. We are already seeing numerous pro-secular, anti-Islamic sites, channels, books, etc. spreading all over the Internet. More and more people are becoming aware of just how immoral and disgusting this religion is.

Islam is Abrahamic. It's not some ancient pagan cult that sprung up entirely on its own.

And the "global information campaign" is mostly consisting of trying to control government enough to get laws passed that inconvenience Muslims greatly or if possible deport them.

Like I said, why not internment camps?

[Deuxtete]

You're an Arabic speaker and Quranic scholar are you?
What university do you teach at, or do your research from?


Oh no wait, you're not educated and you're just parroting bigoted shit trying to incite hatred of a group of people you don't like.

Don't correct me, you're not even remotely bright enough.

I have quoted from Quranic scholars who are proficient in Arabic. This is the mainstream scholarly view, and is certainly what the pious Muslims believe.

Your arrogance is amusing, given your obvious lack of familiarity with this subject.

If you're quoting Quranic scholars then please explain to me where in the Qur'an is the mention of seventy two virgins, if you are so knowledgeable I'm sure you know the original language that the 72 rewards were wrtten in, right off the top of your head.
Also given your research, expansive as it clearly is(you want a cracker) I'm sure you're prepared to refute linguistics that other secular shcolars say means fucking fruit, not virgins.

Or, you know, like I said. Not even remotely bright enough. By the way, Islam-watch won't have answers.

[Atelia]

Christians in the west, particularly America, love to resort to the bible to enforce their sexist beliefs to trample women's rights, freedoms and life.

lol OP says pretty much: Islam is immoral, and then gives us some quotes we can talk about but your answer is: Christianity bla bla. A different religion, a different world, don't you realise Christianity is not the topic at hand? If Allah is or is not immoral then he is because of what he supposedly does or says not because there is another religion you don't like.

Geez, why people do that, I will never understand...

Except the 'God' of Arabia is Jehovah, just like the 'God' of the Jews, or of Christianity. The morality of all Abrahamic faiths are very similar.

[Lordieth]

I have quoted from Quranic scholars who are proficient in Arabic. This is the mainstream scholarly view, and is certainly what the pious Muslims believe.

Your arrogance is amusing, given your obvious lack of familiarity with this subject.

If you're quoting Quranic scholars then please explain to me where in the Qur'an is the mention of seventy two virgins, if you are so knowledgeable I'm sure you know the original language that the 72 rewards were wrtten in, right off the top of your head.
Also given your research, expansive as it clearly is(you want a cracker) I'm sure you're prepared to refute linguistics that other secular shcolars say means fucking fruit, not virgins.

Or, you know, like I said. Not even remotely bright enough. By the way, Islam-watch won't have answers.

I think there's going to be a lot of pissed-off martyrs in the afterlife if they find their big reward turns out to a big bowl of fruit.

These aren't quite the big ripe melons I had in mind, God..

[Kotta Telangana]

Why don't people stop talking about Christianity and actually discuss the topic at hand? You can make your own topic about the immorality of Christianity if you wish.

If a religion promises to give its male followers infidel women from hell as virtual sex slaves, can we conclude that this is an immoral religion?

Also, no one has answered by query as to what pious Muslim women get in the afterlife. Allah promises Muslim men eternal erections and some virgins with pleasant vaginas, but these obviously do not apply to Muslim women.

[Avalon]

That would be news. Someone stoned to death in Colorado.

This is just as much as cultural problem as it is a religion one. Christianity moved on. Islam, in some areas of the world, didn't.

so glad to read this reply ^

[Gauthier]

If you're quoting Quranic scholars then please explain to me where in the Qur'an is the mention of seventy two virgins, if you are so knowledgeable I'm sure you know the original language that the 72 rewards were wrtten in, right off the top of your head.
Also given your research, expansive as it clearly is(you want a cracker) I'm sure you're prepared to refute linguistics that other secular shcolars say means fucking fruit, not virgins.

Or, you know, like I said. Not even remotely bright enough. By the way, Islam-watch won't have answers.

I think there's going to be a lot of pissed-off martyrs in the afterlife if they find their big reward turns out to a big bowl of fruit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dxpMTFBg48

[Jamzmania]

lol OP says pretty much: Islam is immoral, and then gives us some quotes we can talk about but your answer is: Christianity bla bla. A different religion, a different world, don't you realise Christianity is not the topic at hand? If Allah is or is not immoral then he is because of what he supposedly does or says not because there is another religion you don't like.

Geez, why people do that, I will never understand...

Except the 'God' of Arabia is Jehovah, just like the 'God' of the Jews, or of Christianity. The morality of all Abrahamic faiths are very similar.

Muslims claim that the God of Islam is the same God of Judaism and Christianity. That doesn't make it true.

[Gauthier]

This is just as much as cultural problem as it is a religion one. Christianity moved on. Islam, in some areas of the world, didn't.

so glad to read this reply ^

Someone missed the joke. Stoned to Death in Colorado.

[Deuxtete]

The Old Testament only applies to Jews, not Christians.

Nice try, though.

According to the new testament, Jesus explicitly said the laws of the old testament still apply. Not one iota was changed.

It also says he had fulfilled those laws, and gives new commandments, the most important of commandments.
The Old Covenant was fullfilled, thus a new convenent created. Thanks though.

[Lordieth]

This is just as much as cultural problem as it is a religion one. Christianity moved on. Islam, in some areas of the world, didn't.

so glad to read this reply ^

All major religions have their basis in barbarism. In a few hundred years from now, Islam in the east might be as progressive as western Christianity is today. I think too much focus is put on religion as the problem, and not, you know, people.