Cecil the Lion - Killed by American Tourist

[Neo-Vinnland]

Hunting for food is one thing, but for sport... It's just sadism, pure sadism.

Got any evidence to back up that claim?

Do they ever?

Too many people living life thinking the world is a Disney movie.

Lions kill people and other animals they cry about going extinct, but the ONLY thing the dentist did wrong was shoot a lion that happened to have a name.

If it hadn't been named, we'd never have heard about it.

But it makes a nice distraction from the Ghouls of Planned Parenthood selling dismembered babies.

But, no, let's cry over a dead cat no one ever heard of in a country most of these people couldn't find on a map last week.

[Councilmembers]

My arguments boil down to how our species, as has been demonstrated for millenniums, has demonstrated higher-ordered thinking and dominance over other creatures. We shouldn't dehumanize a fellow man for hunting another animal. The only reason this is sparking outrage is because of irrational sentiment we are applying to Cecil, again...no different from other lions except for being an "international figure."

I don't want to hate or punish a person in spite of the fact that he didn't do anything to hurt someone else, either socially, physically, economically, or otherwise. It was a lion.

That's fine. You are mistaken and there are many people who want to use their "freedom" to punish them socially and economically. I agree with that.

I question the fact that people are calling fellow people "scum," and want them to lose their good jobs because of something that didn't harm another person in any way, shape, or form. I question the fact that people are valuing a lion's life over the economic and social well-being of a human being with a family and career.

I think that's wrong.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

My arguments boil down to how our species, as has been demonstrated for millenniums, has demonstrated higher-ordered thinking and dominance over other creatures.

Measuring other species' worth to the biosphere by the density and size of their neural connectome is a profoundly shortsighted idea.

Also: the plural of millennium is millennia.

[The Black Forrest]

Got any evidence to back up that claim?

Do they ever?

Hmmm. Something tells me you wouldn't believe it.

Too many people living life thinking the world is a Disney movie.

Sauce?

Lions kill people and other animals they cry about going extinct, but the ONLY thing the dentist did wrong was shoot a lion that happened to have a name.

You didn't even read the story eh? He is being investigate on that and reportidly has a prior history of breaking the law on such matters.

If it hadn't been named, we'd never have heard about it.

Not really. The beauty of the Net; people are hearing about it sooner. For example, the five elephants killed were reported.....

But it makes a nice distraction from the Ghouls of Planned Parenthood selling dismembered babies.

No need to try and distract the conversation/debate.

But, no, let's cry over a dead cat no one ever heard of in a country most of these people couldn't find on a map last week.

Do you really have something to offer?

[Councilmembers]

My arguments boil down to how our species, as has been demonstrated for millenniums, has demonstrated higher-ordered thinking and dominance over other creatures.

Measuring other species' worth to the biosphere by the density and size of their neural connectome is a profoundly shortsighted idea.

Also: the plural of millennium is millennia.

We can sit here and claim that intelligence and sapience does not determine species' worth.

Meanwhile, we will continue with our advanced tools, social/economic/political systems, higher communication, space travel, etc. From a practical perspective, humans have the most worth out of all species on this planet.

[The Black Forrest]

That's fine. You are mistaken and there are many people who want to use their "freedom" to punish them socially and economically. I agree with that.

I question the fact that people are calling fellow people "scum," and want them to lose their good jobs because of something that didn't harm another person in any way, shape, or form. I question the fact that people are valuing a lion's life over the economic and social well-being of a human being with a family and career.

I think that's wrong.

You can think whatever you like. Many more people think otherwise. You talk of his "freedom" to kill whatever he wants but you don't like people using their freedom to express outrage. They have a right to "attack" his business. His customers have a right to decide if they want to remain or not. See; freedom maintained.

[The Black Forrest]

Measuring other species' worth to the biosphere by the density and size of their neural connectome is a profoundly shortsighted idea.

Also: the plural of millennium is millennia.

We can sit here and claim that intelligence and sapience does not determine species' worth.

Meanwhile, we will continue with our advanced tools, social/economic/political systems, higher communication, space travel, etc. From a practical perspective, humans have the most worth out of all species on this planet.

And yet the species to the planet would survive just fine without us.

It's easy to define worth when you are at the top of the scale.

Seriously, this nobility talk is just a stance eh?

[Councilmembers]

I question the fact that people are calling fellow people "scum," and want them to lose their good jobs because of something that didn't harm another person in any way, shape, or form. I question the fact that people are valuing a lion's life over the economic and social well-being of a human being with a family and career.

I think that's wrong.

You can think whatever you like. Many more people think otherwise. You talk of his "freedom" to kill whatever he wants but you don't like people using their freedom to express outrage. They have a right to "attack" his business. His customers have a right to decide if they want to remain or not. See; freedom maintained.

Sure, people have the freedom to boycott. That is not in dispute and never has been. But are we going to put a man, his family, his job, and his livelihood through hell because of an animal that was killed? Do we value the life of a lion more than the life of a human being? That seems fundamentally wrong to me.

I know, I know. You will again respond with "think whatever you like." But is there any substantive argument against what I claim?

[Councilmembers]

We can sit here and claim that intelligence and sapience does not determine species' worth.

Meanwhile, we will continue with our advanced tools, social/economic/political systems, higher communication, space travel, etc. From a practical perspective, humans have the most worth out of all species on this planet.

And yet the species to the planet would survive just fine without us.

It's easy to define worth when you are at the top of the scale.

Seriously, this nobility talk is just a stance eh?

We have determined our own value of a species. But what sets us apart is our ability to enforce that. We can assert our dominance over every single other species on Earth through our technology. That's not at all saying we should, but the power remains.

[The Black Forrest]

You can think whatever you like. Many more people think otherwise. You talk of his "freedom" to kill whatever he wants but you don't like people using their freedom to express outrage. They have a right to "attack" his business. His customers have a right to decide if they want to remain or not. See; freedom maintained.

Sure, people have the freedom to boycott. That is not in dispute and never has been. But are we going to put a man, his family, his job, and his livelihood through hell because of an animal that was killed? Do we value the life of a lion more than the life of a human being? That seems fundamentally wrong to me.

I know, I know. You will again respond with "think whatever you like." But is there any substantive argument against what I claim?

Substantive? You can't make that claim when your arguments are basically your opinions.

Many people have views about trophy hunting. Was that a good idea for his business?

Many people have views about luring an animal out of a protected area so you can try and kill it. Was that a good idea for his business?

Many people have views about an animal left to suffer for 40 hours. Was that a good idea for his business?

That's one of the drawbacks of Social media for douche bags......

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

We can sit here and claim that intelligence and sapience does not determine species' worth.

We don't have to 'claim' it. The last 100 years of ecological research has given us insight into the trophic dynamics of the world's ecosystems - we can measure the relative contributions of constituent organisms to a given system. Lions are a keystone species that play an important role in maintaining the stability of the rest of the ecosystem. That includes us, since we're an inseparable part of the biosphere. Thumping your chest and yelling 'MAN STRONG, MAN HAVE GUN! MAN HAVE BIG CEREBRAL CORTEX!' won't change that basic reality.

[Sociobiology]

Got any evidence to back up that claim?

Mmm, if one is hunting for sport, what reason do you have to hunt other than the rush you get from killing another being that had life much like you did? And/or the excitement that you can keep the dead body as a trophy?

well for a lot of hunters it is the thrill of the chase, tracking and out thinking the quarry. This is why photo hunting is becoming more popular.

[Sociobiology]

You can think whatever you like. Many more people think otherwise. You talk of his "freedom" to kill whatever he wants but you don't like people using their freedom to express outrage. They have a right to "attack" his business. His customers have a right to decide if they want to remain or not. See; freedom maintained.

Sure, people have the freedom to boycott. That is not in dispute and never has been. But are we going to put a man, his family, his job, and his livelihood through hell because of an animal that was killed? Do we value the life of a lion more than the life of a human being? That seems fundamentally wrong to me.

first its not the lions life vs his, if it was there would not have been a problem it was his ego vs the lions life and his convenience vs the lions life. Think of it this way, if he had pulled the Mona Lisa out of her frame and took a shit on it the same things would be happening.

worse yet as a member of the medical profession he is held to a higher standard, if he is OK with torturing this creature for fun why would I ever want him to work on me, he has already demonstrated a lack of empathy.

[The Alma Mater]

That's fine. You are mistaken and there are many people who want to use their "freedom" to punish them socially and economically. I agree with that.

I question the fact that people are calling fellow people "scum," and want them to lose their good jobs because of something that didn't harm another person in any way, shape, or form. I question the fact that people are valuing a lion's life over the economic and social well-being of a human being with a family and career.

I think that's wrong.

You do realise the economic importance of Cecil I hope ? He was worth millions in tourist revenue. So your reasoning is rather odd..

[Lockdownn]

Where the fuck was the public outcry against killing lions 30 years ago? Five months ago? And all of a sudden some fucking animal with a name gets covered by the media and all of a sudden people go bat shit crazy over a fucking animal.

Honest to god this type of shit goes on everyday yet one damn lion with a name that happened to be a tourist favorite gets killed, all of a sudden all these people and fake ass animal rights groups up and care and condone these people releasing this guy's phone number, address not just his place of business but his actual home address, his wife and kids' names all while people are harassing him for doing what essentially goes on there every single fucking day.

So yeah, a lion was killed today, big fucking deal, that's not unique in and of it'self. Crap like that goes on there everyday and yet basically a brand name lion gets killed and everyone suddenly cares.

[Lockdownn]

You do realise the economic importance of Cecil I hope ? He was worth millions in tourist revenue. So your reasoning is rather odd..

You do realize that there are other lions out there right?

[The Alma Mater]

You do realise the economic importance of Cecil I hope ? He was worth millions in tourist revenue. So your reasoning is rather odd..

You do realize that there are other lions out there right?

Less than you might think.
But that is not the point. This specific lion was a tourist attraction. Councilmembers seems to not realise that the dentist is not the only one who is losing his income due to his death. I am arguing that his reasoning is shortsighted and wrong economically speaking.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

Where the fuck was the public outcry against killing lions 30 years ago? Five months ago? And all of a sudden some fucking animal with a name gets covered by the media and all of a sudden people go bat shit crazy over a fucking animal.

Which is great. As an environmentalist, I'm not picky as to what causes people to get off their asses and start caring about threatened species. This media brouhaha has lead to the Oxford University research unit that was studying the lions in the park getting £300 000 in donations over the last few days, probably in large part due to Jimmy Kimmel making a speech about it on his show. Other lion conservation groups have reported similar bumps in funding. Some good has come out of a really unfortunate situation, and that's what really matters in the end.

[Brickistan]

Where the fuck was the public outcry against killing lions 30 years ago? Five months ago? And all of a sudden some fucking animal with a name gets covered by the media and all of a sudden people go bat shit crazy over a fucking animal.

Honest to god this type of shit goes on everyday yet one damn lion with a name that happened to be a tourist favorite gets killed, all of a sudden all these people and fake ass animal rights groups up and care and condone these people releasing this guy's phone number, address not just his place of business but his actual home address, his wife and kids' names all while people are harassing him for doing what essentially goes on there every single fucking day.

So yeah, a lion was killed today, big fucking deal, that's not unique in and of it'self. Crap like that goes on there everyday and yet basically a brand name lion gets killed and everyone suddenly cares.

More to the point, where's the outrage about the millions of sheep, goats, cows, oxen, chicken, cod, salmon, etc. that get slaughtered on a daily basis?

This seems to have been a case of corruption - which I won't deny is reprehensible - but I really do wonder about why people get up in arms like this about it? But then again, I guess that a no-name cow is nowhere as cute and photogenic as a lion...

[The Serbian Empire]

Where the fuck was the public outcry against killing lions 30 years ago? Five months ago? And all of a sudden some fucking animal with a name gets covered by the media and all of a sudden people go bat shit crazy over a fucking animal.

Honest to god this type of shit goes on everyday yet one damn lion with a name that happened to be a tourist favorite gets killed, all of a sudden all these people and fake ass animal rights groups up and care and condone these people releasing this guy's phone number, address not just his place of business but his actual home address, his wife and kids' names all while people are harassing him for doing what essentially goes on there every single fucking day.

So yeah, a lion was killed today, big fucking deal, that's not unique in and of it'self. Crap like that goes on there everyday and yet basically a brand name lion gets killed and everyone suddenly cares.

More to the point, where's the outrage about the millions of sheep, goats, cows, oxen, chicken, cod, salmon, etc. that get slaughtered on a daily basis?

This seems to have been a case of corruption - which I won't deny is reprehensible - but I really do wonder about why people get up in arms like this about it? But then again, I guess that a no-name cow is nowhere as cute and photogenic as a lion...

The other part is there's millions of cows. There's more cows now than there ever was in the wild. Lions on the other hand are endangered.

[Brickistan]

More to the point, where's the outrage about the millions of sheep, goats, cows, oxen, chicken, cod, salmon, etc. that get slaughtered on a daily basis?

This seems to have been a case of corruption - which I won't deny is reprehensible - but I really do wonder about why people get up in arms like this about it? But then again, I guess that a no-name cow is nowhere as cute and photogenic as a lion...

The other part is there's millions of cows. There's more cows now than there ever was in the wild. Lions on the other hand are endangered.

As is a metric shit-ton of other species. In fact, we're right in the middle of yet another extinction event - this time human made. But try to mention that and climate change and you'll get shouted down...

But yeah... I see your point. I just think it's extremely hypocritical. People today barely know how their beef ended up on their dinner table, lat alone where it came from. But a single lion gets killed and people goes crazy with outrage.

[MERIZoC]

You can think whatever you like. Many more people think otherwise. You talk of his "freedom" to kill whatever he wants but you don't like people using their freedom to express outrage. They have a right to "attack" his business. His customers have a right to decide if they want to remain or not. See; freedom maintained.

Sure, people have the freedom to boycott. That is not in dispute and never has been. But are we going to put a man, his family, his job, and his livelihood through hell because of an animal that was killed? Do we value the life of a lion more than the life of a human being? That seems fundamentally wrong to me.

I know, I know. You will again respond with "think whatever you like." But is there any substantive argument against what I claim?

Why is a human being's life inherently more valuable than any other animal, when the human in question is utter scum?

[Greed and Death]

Sure, people have the freedom to boycott. That is not in dispute and never has been. But are we going to put a man, his family, his job, and his livelihood through hell because of an animal that was killed? Do we value the life of a lion more than the life of a human being? That seems fundamentally wrong to me.

I know, I know. You will again respond with "think whatever you like." But is there any substantive argument against what I claim?

Substantive? You can't make that claim when your arguments are basically your opinions.

Many people have views about trophy hunting. Was that a good idea for his business?

Many people have views about luring an animal out of a protected area so you can try and kill it. Was that a good idea for his business?

Many people have views about an animal left to suffer for 40 hours. Was that a good idea for his business?

That's one of the drawbacks of Social media for douche bags......

On the 40 hours thing, he and his guides were actively stalking the lion trying to put it out of its Misery for those 40 hours, so aside from the stupidity of using a bow on a lion, the 40 hours of pain was not his intent, and did attempt to end its suffering as quickly as he was able.

[The Black Forrest]

Where the fuck was the public outcry against killing lions 30 years ago? Five months ago? And all of a sudden some fucking animal with a name gets covered by the media and all of a sudden people go bat shit crazy over a fucking animal.

Attitudes change as people change. They are funny that way.

Honest to god this type of shit goes on everyday yet one damn lion with a name that happened to be a tourist favorite gets killed, all of a sudden all these people and fake ass animal rights groups up and care and condone these people releasing this guy's phone number, address not just his place of business but his actual home address, his wife and kids' names all while people are harassing him for doing what essentially goes on there every single fucking day.

You do get people do get favorites. Their stories get told and what not. That's why people focus on them. As to fake ass; well...you do have evidence the animal rights groups did it right? Of course you don't.

Sure as with anything there are fanatics. But to label all as that way is rather simple minded.

Doxing is part of the Net age. It's interesting to hear how bad it is when it happens to people the complainers support. His public image and business is fair game. I for example as a consumer would want to know if my dentist was a douche.

So yeah, a lion was killed today, big fucking deal, that's not unique in and of it'self. Crap like that goes on there everyday and yet basically a brand name lion gets killed and everyone suddenly cares.

If you don't care, why bother posting?

People are funny about recognized animals getting lured off protected lands so some douche can get a hard on declaring he is a heman because HE killed a lion.

Hopefully, this will start something which forces a change.

Digit's murder did have some positive changes. Hopefully, Cecil's will too.

[The Black Forrest]

You do realise the economic importance of Cecil I hope ? He was worth millions in tourist revenue. So your reasoning is rather odd..

You do realize that there are other lions out there right?

Really? Just how many are there?