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by South East Europe » Fri May 29, 2015 8:59 am
by Dakini » Fri May 29, 2015 9:20 am
by Kelinfort » Fri May 29, 2015 9:26 am
Dakini wrote:Kelinfort wrote:Yeah, he is. In my experience, women have and do slut shame, but nowhere near the extent men do when women are not around.
No, they definitely do it when women are around or at least in earshot. If you spend a reasonable amount of time in the sort of places that are heavily populated by college or university students, you get to overhear a lot of dudes engaging in this behaviour.
by Page » Fri May 29, 2015 10:22 am
by Chessmistress » Fri May 29, 2015 11:15 am
Replevion wrote:Bottle wrote:A mix, if memory serves. I know there was at least one teenage boy who (bless his heart) looked away very quickly.
Interesting that you say "slut shaming" is primarily done by women, though, as my experience has been the opposite. Perhaps there are cultural or regional differences...?
While my first hand experience is still limited having only been able to express my womanhood for the last year or so, both that and my proxy experience have lead me to think similarly that it's mainly women who slut-shame. And it makes sense, a fair amount of guys would rather leer at whomever they perceive as slutty, but most women are going to perceive them as sexual threats and/or reminders of their own self-constraint which may or may not be wholly voluntary (social pressure) and that engenders bitterness etc. and all that is magnified by age and generational cultural/norms.
by Page » Fri May 29, 2015 11:19 am
Chessmistress wrote:Replevion wrote:
While my first hand experience is still limited having only been able to express my womanhood for the last year or so, both that and my proxy experience have lead me to think similarly that it's mainly women who slut-shame. And it makes sense, a fair amount of guys would rather leer at whomever they perceive as slutty, but most women are going to perceive them as sexual threats and/or reminders of their own self-constraint which may or may not be wholly voluntary (social pressure) and that engenders bitterness etc. and all that is magnified by age and generational cultural/norms.
I have to agree with you, at least that's my experience too: there are guys who slut-shame, but they're not just only less than women who slut-shame, but there's even a qualitative difference: women who slut-shame are far more poisonous, and I think the reason of this difference is exactly about perceiving other women as sexual threats - I mean: both men and women perform slut shaming due societal pressure, but women perform even more and more harsh slut shaming because in our case another factor is added: perceiving other women as sexual threat.
There's even, though it's not very common, slut-shaming against bisexual women within lesbians, at least in my country: the word they use can be translated in "bi-slut".
by Chessmistress » Fri May 29, 2015 11:22 am
Page wrote:Chessmistress wrote:
I have to agree with you, at least that's my experience too: there are guys who slut-shame, but they're not just only less than women who slut-shame, but there's even a qualitative difference: women who slut-shame are far more poisonous, and I think the reason of this difference is exactly about perceiving other women as sexual threats - I mean: both men and women perform slut shaming due societal pressure, but women perform even more and more harsh slut shaming because in our case another factor is added: perceiving other women as sexual threat.
There's even, though it's not very common, slut-shaming against bisexual women within lesbians, at least in my country: the word they use can be translated in "bi-slut".
I'm a man-bi-slut!
by Bottle » Fri May 29, 2015 11:24 am
Page wrote:I like to see traditions subverted. Progress is supposed to cause discomfort, it's for all our good in the end though.
by Fartsniffage » Fri May 29, 2015 11:49 am
by Russels Orbiting Teapot » Fri May 29, 2015 11:51 am
by Dread Lady Nathicana » Fri May 29, 2015 11:58 am
by New Babylonia » Fri May 29, 2015 12:03 pm
Dakini wrote:Fuck traditional gender roles.
by Replevion » Fri May 29, 2015 12:05 pm
by New Babylonia » Fri May 29, 2015 12:05 pm
Page wrote:Chessmistress wrote:
I have to agree with you, at least that's my experience too: there are guys who slut-shame, but they're not just only less than women who slut-shame, but there's even a qualitative difference: women who slut-shame are far more poisonous, and I think the reason of this difference is exactly about perceiving other women as sexual threats - I mean: both men and women perform slut shaming due societal pressure, but women perform even more and more harsh slut shaming because in our case another factor is added: perceiving other women as sexual threat.
There's even, though it's not very common, slut-shaming against bisexual women within lesbians, at least in my country: the word they use can be translated in "bi-slut".
I'm a man-bi-slut!
by AquilaJordyn » Fri May 29, 2015 12:08 pm
by Zetnoxyzeus » Fri May 29, 2015 12:32 pm
by Fartsniffage » Fri May 29, 2015 12:43 pm
by Eastfield Lodge » Fri May 29, 2015 12:46 pm
by Chessmistress » Fri May 29, 2015 1:44 pm
Replevion wrote:Chessmistress wrote:
Hello
I'm a woman bi-slut!
Seriously, maybe for a man it's funny, but it's not so funny for a woman.
Even my actual partner once called me so , even if she was just joking
It makes me sick. I've heard of people blaming a woman for being raped because she was bisexual.
I personally don't want to think that rape culture and rape apologists are real and common in the West, and then shit like this happens and I'm just like, stop proving me wrong!! {weep}*
And it doesn't help that there's just no getting away from it. Like you say there's a lot of prejudice even in the lesbian and gay community, this "gold star" bullshit like somebody who touches the opposite sex must be forever tainted. One of my friends has told me a lot of horror stories about dating lesbians I won't go into, but for my part I really only date bi or pan women. Anything else seems to be... emotionally risky. Riskier.
And I'm proud to be a slut. I don't see it as pejorative, rather it's a sign that somebody isn't going to let social pressure dictate how they fulfill themselves. If I find some mutual attraction it's my social life to navigate, and I don't lead anybody on. I tell everybody I'm involved with from the beginning: I'm my own person, I'm not going to be limited and told whom I can see or when, and I won't limit anybody else. I expect to be minimally informed of additional sexual partners as I inform them. Level of detail is optional. Everybody agrees and we're good. And I have a pretty sweet sex life as a result, which has only been getting better. So yeah, I'm a slut. What of it?
*(Wholly aside, I've told my spouse I think my hormones are turning me into a feminist. Part of me is like noooooo I'm egalitarian! Remember all your mother's warnings about feminism! Remember what assholes TERFs are! Noooooooo and yet I end up defending feminist ideas a lot. Often when I don't even want to, if that makes any sense.)
by Chessmistress » Fri May 29, 2015 1:54 pm
It could also be said that women simply were more adapted for the job, with their bodies keeping them warmer and being more suited to swimming than a male, with more body fat. With that, they often became "the head" of their family. On Mara Island, where sea products accounted for almost all sources of revenue before it became increasingly attractive as a tourist site, gender roles were entirely reversed. Often men would look after the children and go shopping while the women would bring in money for the family.
by Replevion » Fri May 29, 2015 2:09 pm
Chessmistress wrote:Replevion wrote:
It makes me sick. I've heard of people blaming a woman for being raped because she was bisexual.
I personally don't want to think that rape culture and rape apologists are real and common in the West, and then shit like this happens and I'm just like, stop proving me wrong!! {weep}*
And it doesn't help that there's just no getting away from it. Like you say there's a lot of prejudice even in the lesbian and gay community, this "gold star" bullshit like somebody who touches the opposite sex must be forever tainted. One of my friends has told me a lot of horror stories about dating lesbians I won't go into, but for my part I really only date bi or pan women. Anything else seems to be... emotionally risky. Riskier.
And I'm proud to be a slut. I don't see it as pejorative, rather it's a sign that somebody isn't going to let social pressure dictate how they fulfill themselves. If I find some mutual attraction it's my social life to navigate, and I don't lead anybody on. I tell everybody I'm involved with from the beginning: I'm my own person, I'm not going to be limited and told whom I can see or when, and I won't limit anybody else. I expect to be minimally informed of additional sexual partners as I inform them. Level of detail is optional. Everybody agrees and we're good. And I have a pretty sweet sex life as a result, which has only been getting better. So yeah, I'm a slut. What of it?
*(Wholly aside, I've told my spouse I think my hormones are turning me into a feminist. Part of me is like noooooo I'm egalitarian! Remember all your mother's warnings about feminism! Remember what assholes TERFs are! Noooooooo and yet I end up defending feminist ideas a lot. Often when I don't even want to, if that makes any sense.)
"A lot of horror stories" is really exaggerated, but let's say every rose has its thorns...http://www.afterellen.com/books/412271- ... stic-abuse
and that bullshit like somebody who touches the opposite sex must be forever tainted is actually not common, but, still, it happens.
What's wrong about TERFs? TERFs are not about hating transexuals, it's about assuming they cannot fully share our experiences (and note, I'm not comparing transexuals to males).
by Threlizdun » Fri May 29, 2015 2:12 pm
Mostrov wrote:I'm not particularly interested in non-traditional gender roles because of my complete lack of comprehension of social dissent in this regard or indeed the concept of self-expression. Insomuch that there was no question of me getting married and having children (much less sexuality or gender), as much as a matter of too whom.
That attitude of assuming there is a universal female experience and that transwomen can't experience it is the problem. Every woman has a different experience based on the circumstances they find themselves in. Women in general can expect more oppression than men, but how they experience it is unique. Trans women may expect more oppression than cis women, but how each individual experiences it is still unique. Trans-exclusive "radical feminists" are neither radical not feminists. There is nothing radical about excluding trans people, and there is nothing feminist about refusing to assist in ending the oppression of women. Cissexism, sexism, racism, ableism, classism, and heterosexism are all factors working to cement oppression, and all must be combated if one truly wishes to stand for female empowerment. Liberating only a small subset of women is entirely different than standing for the liberation of women in general.Chessmistress wrote:Replevion wrote:
It makes me sick. I've heard of people blaming a woman for being raped because she was bisexual.
I personally don't want to think that rape culture and rape apologists are real and common in the West, and then shit like this happens and I'm just like, stop proving me wrong!! {weep}*
And it doesn't help that there's just no getting away from it. Like you say there's a lot of prejudice even in the lesbian and gay community, this "gold star" bullshit like somebody who touches the opposite sex must be forever tainted. One of my friends has told me a lot of horror stories about dating lesbians I won't go into, but for my part I really only date bi or pan women. Anything else seems to be... emotionally risky. Riskier.
And I'm proud to be a slut. I don't see it as pejorative, rather it's a sign that somebody isn't going to let social pressure dictate how they fulfill themselves. If I find some mutual attraction it's my social life to navigate, and I don't lead anybody on. I tell everybody I'm involved with from the beginning: I'm my own person, I'm not going to be limited and told whom I can see or when, and I won't limit anybody else. I expect to be minimally informed of additional sexual partners as I inform them. Level of detail is optional. Everybody agrees and we're good. And I have a pretty sweet sex life as a result, which has only been getting better. So yeah, I'm a slut. What of it?
*(Wholly aside, I've told my spouse I think my hormones are turning me into a feminist. Part of me is like noooooo I'm egalitarian! Remember all your mother's warnings about feminism! Remember what assholes TERFs are! Noooooooo and yet I end up defending feminist ideas a lot. Often when I don't even want to, if that makes any sense.)
"A lot of horror stories" is really exaggerated, but let's say every rose has its thorns...http://www.afterellen.com/books/412271- ... stic-abuse
and that bullshit like somebody who touches the opposite sex must be forever tainted is actually not common, but, still, it happens.
What's wrong about TERFs? TERFs are not about hating transexuals, it's about assuming they cannot fully share our experiences (and note, I'm not comparing transexuals to males).
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