The NationStates Feminist Thread

[Chessmistress]

There is no valid scientific evidence that modern breast implants, when up to medical standards, are unsafe. At least, no more so than any other surgery.

And yes, if that is the case about the shelters, I completely agree. Of course I don't see why women's shelters should turn away wounded men, either, because, you know, they're wounded. They need help.

Except for the fact breast implants aren't meant for halth, like other surgeries...
I never heard of an adult male accepted by a women's shelter. Source?
However I agree that even wounded males need help.

[Zottistan]

There is no valid scientific evidence that modern breast implants, when up to medical standards, are unsafe. At least, no more so than any other surgery.

And yes, if that is the case about the shelters, I completely agree. Of course I don't see why women's shelters should turn away wounded men, either, because, you know, they're wounded. They need help.

Except for the fact breast implants aren't meant for halth, like other surgeries...

Like circumcision or cosmetic liposuction?

Cosmetic surgery is so common it's a widely recognized medical specialty.

I also like how you neatly ignored the bit where I explained that breast implants held to medical standards are more or less harmless.

I never heard of an adult male accepted by a women's shelter. Source?
However I agree that even wounded males need help.

Well that was the point. I've never heard of it happening either. But if they're turning away transwomen it's pretty obvious they'd turn away men.

[Chessmistress]

Except for the fact breast implants aren't meant for halth, like other surgeries...

Like circumcision or cosmetic liposuction?

Cosmetic surgery is so common it's a widely recognized medical specialty.

I also like how you neatly ignored the bit where I explained that breast implants held to medical standards are more or less harmless.

I ignored it because it was showed in the other thread that breast implants carry risks, and are not totally harmless, with official stats.

I never heard of an adult male accepted by a women's shelter. Source?
However I agree that even wounded males need help.

Well that was the point. I've never heard of it happening either. But if they're turning away transwomen it's pretty obvious they'd turn away men.

And that's the funny part.
The "man-hating" Radical Feminist OPPOSE kicking out wounded transexuals and even wounded males from shelters.
"Feminist" males, right in this forum, had tried to minimize the inherent horrible unfairness and betrayal of mission of the practice of kicking out transexuals from women's shelters.
viewtopic.php?p=24855334#p24855334
viewtopic.php?p=24855687#p24855687
viewtopic.php?p=24856443#p24856443
viewtopic.php?p=24861514#p24861514
viewtopic.php?p=24867229#p24867229

And check that exchange of posts
viewtopic.php?p=24868782#p24868782
viewtopic.php?p=24869351#p24869351
Basically he's saying that kicking out people from a shelter shouldn't be a crime...
I think it should be, and argumenting about the difference between "not caring" and "trying to kill" it's just a way to keep the discussion away from the fact that shelters, even if rightly mainly meant for women, should be enforced by the law to accept every wounded person, at least for the first 48-72 hours, maybe in a separated housing, or activating some other form of help.

By doing so, these "feminist" males had also indirectly endorsed women's shelters kicking out themselves if wounded.
That's why I think that some people following a similar reasoning would adjust even under a matriarchy.

[Ostroeuropa]

Expanding on the earlier "Feminism is a monument to sociopathy" post.

"Why do you talk so much about false rape accusations, rape is a bigger problem and anyway, false rape accusations don't happen very often."

"We're talking about air conditioning because it's an issue, it's not a zero sum game! Just because there are bigger problems doesn't mean we can't talk about this one!"

"Men are stereotyped as shit parents and incompetent at house work. This is sexism against men." "Noes, it's sexism against women because then we have to do all that stuff!"

"Men have to do all the dangerous and deadly shit, this is sexism against them." "Noes! It's because women are stereotyped as shit at those things! It's sexism against women!"

Feminism isn't a proper ideology. It's a collection of rationalizations, not actual tenets that are applied consistently. Their problems with these issues aren't what they think they are. It's that they simply lack empathy and don't consider it a real problem. An entire "ideology", codified and founded on a lack of empathy, constantly rationalizing to themselves why they feel women have it worse rather than confront the truth about themselves.
They aren't consistent in ANY of their reasoning. ONLY in their rationalizations, and those examples prove it. They feel women are the victim, and argue to prove their point. There is no reasoning or logic behind these arguments, ONLY rationalizations that they apply inconsistently where they work towards the goal of affirming their feelings. The arguments are all purposefully constructed with a goal in mind, not actual good faith attempts to evaluate reality, otherwise they would notice their constant double standards.

Feminism is a monument to sociopathy. A collection of ways for men and women to justify a lack of empathy for men.

[Zottistan]

Like circumcision or cosmetic liposuction?

Cosmetic surgery is so common it's a widely recognized medical specialty.

I also like how you neatly ignored the bit where I explained that breast implants held to medical standards are more or less harmless.

I ignored it because it was showed in the other thread that breast implants carry risks, and are not totally harmless, with official stats.

And rather than linking to this, or even informing me of it, you ignored it on the presumption that I must have read every post in every thread on this site?

Link, please.

Well that was the point. I've never heard of it happening either. But if they're turning away transwomen it's pretty obvious they'd turn away men.

And that's the funny part.
The "man-hating" Radical Feminist OPPOSE kicking out wounded transexuals and even wounded males from shelters.
"Feminist" males, right in this forum, had tried to minimize the inherent horrible unfairness and betrayal of mission of the practice of kicking out transexuals from women's shelters.
viewtopic.php?p=24855334#p24855334
viewtopic.php?p=24855687#p24855687
viewtopic.php?p=24856443#p24856443
viewtopic.php?p=24861514#p24861514
viewtopic.php?p=24867229#p24867229

And check that exchange of posts
viewtopic.php?p=24868782#p24868782
viewtopic.php?p=24869351#p24869351
Basically he's saying that kicking out people from a shelter shouldn't be a crime...
I think it should be, and argumenting about the difference between "not caring" and "trying to kill" it's just a way to keep the discussion away from the fact that shelters, even if rightly mainly meant for women, should be enforced by the law to accept every wounded person, at least for the first 48-72 hours, maybe in a separated housing, or activating some other form of help.

That's fine, so. We don't disagree.

By doing so, these "feminist" males had also indirectly endorsed women's shelters kicking out themselves if wounded.
That's why I think that some people following a similar reasoning would adjust even under a matriarchy.

Denying themselves access to something that would be beneficial to themselves on matters of principal makes them less Machiavellian, not more so.

[Chessmistress]

And that's the funny part.
The "man-hating" Radical Feminist OPPOSE kicking out wounded transexuals and even wounded males from shelters.
"Feminist" males, right in this forum, had tried to minimize the inherent horrible unfairness and betrayal of mission of the practice of kicking out transexuals from women's shelters.
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24855334
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24855687
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24856443
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24861514
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24867229

And check that exchange of posts
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24868782
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p24869351
Basically he's saying that kicking out people from a shelter shouldn't be a crime...
I think it should be, and argumenting about the difference between "not caring" and "trying to kill" it's just a way to keep the discussion away from the fact that shelters, even if rightly mainly meant for women, should be enforced by the law to accept every wounded person, at least for the first 48-72 hours, maybe in a separated housing, or activating some other form of help.

That's fine, so. We don't disagree.

By doing so, these "feminist" males had also indirectly endorsed women's shelters kicking out themselves if wounded.
That's why I think that some people following a similar reasoning would adjust even under a matriarchy.

Denying themselves access to something that would be beneficial to themselves on matters of principal makes them less Machiavellian, not more so.

Wrong.
Denying themselves an human right (being aided when wounded) is just plainly stupid.
The principal that wounded people should be kicked out from shelters on the basis of their sex/gender is a very shitty principal.
Basically, it seems to me they're denying themselves an human right on matters of a very shitty and wrong principal.
And the fact you are trying to reframe these things as "machiavellism" is quite worrying.
That's why I'll never trust in "feminist" males: I think they are dangerous for the movement and even more for themselves.

[Zottistan]

That's fine, so. We don't disagree.


Denying themselves access to something that would be beneficial to themselves on matters of principal makes them less Machiavellian, not more so.

Wrong.
Denying themselves an human right (being aided when wounded) is just plainly stupid.
The principal that wounded people should be kicked out from shelters on the basis of their sex/gender is a very shitty principal.
Basically, it seems to me they're denying themselves an human right on matters of a very shitty and wrong principal.

I didn't say otherwise.

And the fact you are trying to reframe these things as "machiavellism" is quite worrying.

I said it wasn't Machiavellian.

You're the one who's trying to portray them as Machiavellian in the extreme, claiming they'd go so far as to castrate themselves to attain political power. Not me.

That's why I'll never trust in "feminist" males: I think they are dangerous for the movement and even more for themselves.

Stereotyping.

Still waiting on a source for breast implants being harmful btw.

[MisandristMantis]

You come into my house
Insult my ideology
Feminism definitely has its flaws, but there aren't too many better options out there that are meant to empower women and put them on a level playing field with men.

What are the flaws of Feminism?
I don't think it's that "there aren't too many better options out there that are meant to empower women and put them on a level playing field with men".
It's that "all other options are more or less misogynists and mainly meant to push women's rights backward", I think.

I suppose I need to clarify. I'm calling for matriarchy and mentioned that this is why I oppose feminism. I am not calling for an occasional female head of state in an otherwise patriarchal society. I am not even calling for 50 male senators dominating 50 female senators and calling it "equality".

My argument is not that everything would be better if you put a woman in charge of a patriarchal state. My argument is that, based on how men have led society and how men have used their power in the past, there is no reason we should allow them any social power.

Sadly men (as a class) have shown that they are unable to fairly handle social, economic, or political power without harming both women and men.

I oppose matriarchy, I just wish substantive equality.
So said, I'm just curious.
Are you aware that in a situation where males are legally keeped out from positions of power we would see a massive rise of transexualism M2F?
Proof: during Middle-Ages a lot of males castrated themselves in order to be eunuchs and, by doing so, being able to reach power.
How you suppose to deal with such issue?

I doubt there would be any increase in M2F trans people under matriarchy. Consider that under patriarchy there F2M transexualism is very rare.

But even if that happened I'm sure it could be dealt with. What you probably would see is a increased preference for female children. Still my preferred form of matriarchy only removes some rights for men. Men would still be treated better than women were in 1950s America. They would simply be barred from any positions of social, political, and religious authority or power and perhaps some rights that men take for granted now should be reinterpreted for men.

Why are you a feminist? Feminism means making women equal to men. Why do you trust men to be your equal? Hasn't history shown they will abuse any power they are given?

[Lovable Alien Overlord]

I think that the biggest flaw with feminism is its proponents. People like Anita Sarkeesian are extremely divisive and unhelpful to the actual cause.

[Ostroeuropa]

https://www.berea.edu/wgs/take-back-kitchen/

...
I've got nothing.

My mind has gone blank. I can't think of a way to properly convey how I feel about this, so i'm just going to sort of describe the zombie like state this article has induced in me for a bit until I finish rebooting.

I think feminists should probably stop saying they represent women.
You're going to make them look stupid and whiners for the sake of whining.
Though you're doing great work at combating the notion that women aren't funny.

[MisandristMantis]

https://www.berea.edu/wgs/take-back-kitchen/

...
I've got nothing.

My mind has gone blank. I can't think of a way to properly convey how I feel about this, so i'm just going to sort of describe the zombie like state this article has induced in me.

I think feminists should probably stop saying they represent women.
You're going to make them look stupid and whiners for the sake of whining.
Though you're doing great work at combating the notion that women aren't funny.

The article seems reasonable enough to me. Do you actually have any argument against it?

[Gauthier]

https://www.berea.edu/wgs/take-back-kitchen/

...
I've got nothing.

My mind has gone blank. I can't think of a way to properly convey how I feel about this, so i'm just going to sort of describe the zombie like state this article has induced in me.

I think feminists should probably stop saying they represent women.
You're going to make them look stupid and whiners for the sake of whining.

So a movement to encourage healthy cooking and eating is a feminist plot now? Oh right, I forgot real women are happy to kneel before men serving them junk food. *nod*

[Ostroeuropa]

https://www.berea.edu/wgs/take-back-kitchen/

...
I've got nothing.

My mind has gone blank. I can't think of a way to properly convey how I feel about this, so i'm just going to sort of describe the zombie like state this article has induced in me.

I think feminists should probably stop saying they represent women.
You're going to make them look stupid and whiners for the sake of whining.
Though you're doing great work at combating the notion that women aren't funny.

The article seems reasonable enough to me. Do you actually have any argument against it?

You're right. Go and make some sandwiches. The men are no good at it anyway, right?

[Gauthier]

https://www.berea.edu/wgs/take-back-kitchen/

...
I've got nothing.

My mind has gone blank. I can't think of a way to properly convey how I feel about this, so i'm just going to sort of describe the zombie like state this article has induced in me.

I think feminists should probably stop saying they represent women.
You're going to make them look stupid and whiners for the sake of whining.
Though you're doing great work at combating the notion that women aren't funny.

The article seems reasonable enough to me. Do you actually have any argument against it?

He saw "feminist," "taking back" and "kitchen" all in the same sentence and an amazon plot to deny Proper Women their traditional place. *nod*

[Geilinor]

https://www.berea.edu/wgs/take-back-kitchen/

...
I've got nothing.

My mind has gone blank. I can't think of a way to properly convey how I feel about this, so i'm just going to sort of describe the zombie like state this article has induced in me.

I think feminists should probably stop saying they represent women.
You're going to make them look stupid and whiners for the sake of whining.

So a movement to encourage healthy cooking and eating is a feminist plot now? Oh right, I forgot real women are happy to kneel before men serving them junk food. *nod*

It's disgusting. It blames men for the obesity epidemic. You did it too (see the underlined).

[MisandristMantis]

The article seems reasonable enough to me. Do you actually have any argument against it?

You're right. Go and make some sandwiches. The men are no good at it anyway, right?

But it's not about women (or men) making sandwiches. It's about encouraging healthy eating by reducing consumption of unhealthy fats and salt and promoting more balanced diet.

Did you actually read it?

[Gauthier]

So a movement to encourage healthy cooking and eating is a feminist plot now? Oh right, I forgot real women are happy to kneel before men serving them junk food. *nod*

It's disgusting. It blames men for the obesity epidemic. You did it too (see the underlined).

And it's supposed to be the SJWs reading between the lines now?

[Ostroeuropa]

So a movement to encourage healthy cooking and eating is a feminist plot now? Oh right, I forgot real women are happy to kneel before men serving them junk food. *nod*

It's disgusting. It blames men for the obesity epidemic. You did it too (see the underlined).

It's pretty funny that both of them didn't notice the misandry in the article.
But because of that, they also completely failed to grasp the misogynistic mirror to that misandry.

It really has come full circle.
They now hate men so much they want to shove women back into the kitchen, because the men are no good at it.

Ok, great.
Good job guys, this is a huge improvement. I can clearly see that hundred years or so was time well spent.

I think my brain is still partially numb from this. I'm worried it might be permanent. I opened the article and blew a fuse or something.

[MisandristMantis]

It's disgusting. It blames men for the obesity epidemic. You did it too (see the underlined).

It's pretty funny that both of them didn't notice the misandry in the article.
But because of that, they also completely failed to grasp the misogynistic mirror to that misandry.

It really has come full circle.
They now hate men so much they want to shove women back into the kitchen, because the men are no good at it.

Ok, great.
Good job guys, this is a huge improvement. I can clearly see that hundred years or so was time well spent.

Where do you get that from? Certainly not in the article you linked to. Did you intend to link somewhere else?

[Gauthier]

It's disgusting. It blames men for the obesity epidemic. You did it too (see the underlined).

It's pretty funny that both of them didn't notice the misandry in the article.
But because of that, they also completely failed to grasp the misogynistic mirror to that misandry.

It really has come full circle.
They now hate men so much they want to shove women back into the kitchen, because the men are no good at it.

Ok, great.
Good job guys, this is a huge improvement. I can clearly see that hundred years or so was time well spent.

I think my brain is still partially numb from this. I'm worried it might be permanent. I opened the article and blew a fuse or something.

No matter what women talk about, you see it as an amazon conspiracy. Seriously, if feminists sincerely talked about giving up and doing everything men want them to do you'd see some amazon waiting to Bobbitt some unsuspecting man.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's pretty funny that both of them didn't notice the misandry in the article.
But because of that, they also completely failed to grasp the misogynistic mirror to that misandry.

It really has come full circle.
They now hate men so much they want to shove women back into the kitchen, because the men are no good at it.

Ok, great.
Good job guys, this is a huge improvement. I can clearly see that hundred years or so was time well spent.

I think my brain is still partially numb from this. I'm worried it might be permanent. I opened the article and blew a fuse or something.

No matter what women talk about, you see it as an amazon conspiracy. Seriously, if feminists sincerely talked about giving up and doing everything men want them to do you'd see some amazon waiting to Bobbitt some unsuspecting man.

I've often said I don't think feminism is a conspiracy.
It's a cock-up.

You just refuse to understand the difference, because you're a zealot and can't understand why someone would reject your gospel truth.
They must just hate jesus.

[MisandristMantis]

No matter what women talk about, you see it as an amazon conspiracy. Seriously, if feminists sincerely talked about giving up and doing everything men want them to do you'd see some amazon waiting to Bobbitt some unsuspecting man.

I've often said I don't think feminism is a conspiracy.
It's a cock-up.

You just refuse to understand the difference, because you're a zealot and can't understand why someone would reject your gospel truth.
They must just hate jesus.

If this is how you react to a few women talking about how to eat healthier... I suspect that you may want to look in the mirror before calling others zealots.

[Gauthier]

No matter what women talk about, you see it as an amazon conspiracy. Seriously, if feminists sincerely talked about giving up and doing everything men want them to do you'd see some amazon waiting to Bobbitt some unsuspecting man.

I've often said I don't think feminism is a conspiracy.
It's a cock-up.

You just refuse to understand the difference, because you're a zealot and can't understand why someone would reject your gospel truth.
They must just hate jesus.

Because seeing it as "Stupid Bitches Don't Know Shit" is much more enlightened.

[Ostroeuropa]

This is the bit that gets me.

The ability to subordinate people’s health and longevity is rooted in a patriarchal tradition of privilege that allows a predominantly male-led industry to assert control over the life of communities, while ignoring the costs of irresponsible agricultural and food practices on people, especially women and children.

It just shows that a lot of feminists are completely unhinged from reality.

a movement to reclaim simple, traditional foods that will lead to families and communities eating a more sustainable American diet.

But I thought it was a patriarchy tradition of privilege.
Which is it.
Is the food you're talking about traditional or not.

How is it that women were expected to do all the cooking and such, and then feminism demanded they not do that anymore, and get jobs and all that, resulting in the rise of quick and easy to cook food since most people no longer had hours to fuck around, the fault of the patriarchy.
(By the way, I'm not opposing this change. I'm just pointing out what caused it.)

It isn't. It isn't the fault of the patriarchy.

I'm still stunned by that article, there is so much wrong with it I could talk about it all day. More of me is shutting down. I think I need to do a line of coke.

It's clear that feminists just blame everything they don't like on patriarchy, even if it's the result of feminist actions.
(Such as custody laws, as Tahar points out.)

It's just a further demonstration of the incoherency and pseudo-ideological nature of feminism.

[Aelex]

Still my preferred form of matriarchy only removes some rights for men. Men would still be treated better than women were in 1950s America. They would simply be barred from any positions of social, political, and religious authority or power and perhaps some rights that men take for granted now should be reinterpreted for men.

Why are you a feminist? Feminism means making women equal to men. Why do you trust men to be your equal? Hasn't history shown they will abuse any power they are given?

This is so unrealistic and stupid I'm really wondering if you're not a Poe.
No, it's false. In fact, I'm hoping you're one, because, if you're just speaking what appear to you to be "the truth", then you managed to shatter my faith in humanity even more than what 4chan could have ever managed to.