The NationStates Feminist Thread

[Galloism]

Erm... Because it has worked in other countries?

Please cite examples of other countries where prosititution is legal and the STI rate in it is actually lower than before it was legalized.

Well, when Rhode Island accidentally decriminalized prostitution, rape dropped by 31% and gonorrhea dropped by 39%.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w20281.pdf

[Galloism]

/shrug

Everyone disagrees with Ostro because of the ridiculous ass shit he spouts, but he has no hatred of trans people.

I'm still not sure which person I disagree with more: Chess or Ostro. It would be fun to see them duke it out though. I've always imagined it would be like that Iron Man vs. Thor fight in the Avengers movie.

Except weird and make no sense.

[Val Halla]

Erm... Because it has worked in other countries?

Please cite examples of other countries where prosititution is legal and the STI rate in it is actually lower than before it was legalized.

Gallo just gave you one.

[Liberonscien]

/shrug

Everyone disagrees with Ostro because of the ridiculous ass shit he spouts, but he has no hatred of trans people.

I'm still not sure which person I disagree with more: Chess or Ostro. It would be fun to see them duke it out though. I've always imagined it would be like that Iron Man vs. Thor fight in the Avengers movie.

It would be interesting to watch. On average I find I agree with Ostro more often.

[Wallenburg]

It is a response to conservapedia.

and somehow it didn't improve much

Liberapedia is fun though, since it is explicitly satirical.

[Kelinfort]

I'm still not sure which person I disagree with more: Chess or Ostro. It would be fun to see them duke it out though. I've always imagined it would be like that Iron Man vs. Thor fight in the Avengers movie.

Except weird and make no sense.

Chess and Ostro don't fight, though. They disagree, but Chess reinforces Ostro's interpretation of feminism and Ostro respects Chess's craziness because it's real Feminism.

[Jute]

Please cite examples of other countries where prosititution is legal and the STI rate in it is actually lower than before it was legalized.

Well, when Rhode Island accidentally decriminalized prostitution, rape dropped by 31% and gonorrhea dropped by 39%.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w20281.pdf

"accidentally"

Except weird and make no sense.

Chess and Ostro don't fight, though. They disagree, but Chess reinforces Ostro's interpretation of feminism and Ostro respects Chess's craziness because it's real Feminism.

In other words, they are both confirming each other's viewpoints, or biases.

[Wallenburg]

Except weird and make no sense.

Chess and Ostro don't fight, though. They disagree, but Chess reinforces Ostro's interpretation of feminism and Ostro respects Chess's craziness because it's real Feminism.

Except it isn't "real feminism". It's lunacy. It's blatant sexism, and femiism's definitive objective of equality doesn't enter into her ideology.

[Galloism]

Well, when Rhode Island accidentally decriminalized prostitution, rape dropped by 31% and gonorrhea dropped by 39%.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w20281.pdf

"accidentally"

Yes - accidentally.

So what?

[Liberonscien]

Except weird and make no sense.

Chess and Ostro don't fight, though. They disagree, but Chess reinforces Ostro's interpretation of feminism and Ostro respects Chess's craziness because it's real Feminism.

It reminds me of yin yang. Chess's crazy can't exist without Ostro and vice versa.

[Jute]

"accidentally"

Yes - accidentally.

So what?

How do you do that?

[Galloism]

Yes - accidentally.

So what?

How do you do that?

They inadvertently removed the language banning prostitution from the statutes in 1980. It wasn't noticed until 2003, when a successful legal challenge defeated state prosecutions for prostitution because no one could find a specific statute that made prostitution illegal in the circumstances of that case, namely, prostitution occurring indoors without advertising.

Now, it was illegal to street walk and do a lot of things in support of prostitution, but the act of prostitution itself was inadvertently removed from the law as a crime.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Ostro, I think that's complete nonsense. Moderate feminists do exist and you've seen examples on this thread - Nanatsu no Tsuki and Kelinfort, for example.

They are low bigotry/ignorance, high denial feminists.
I did say I can count them on one hand.
They are feminist-MRAs but seem to not want to identify as such, despite using their arguments, ideas, and rhetoric, the result of which is people not being told to go learn the MRM talking points.

Maybe you'll also read through this wiki article. "RationalWiki" might not always be the best, but it seems generally accept as a source here and this article seems well-enough researched, too.

Malice it is!
Congratulations! Keep being willfully ignorant or knowingly disingenuous, i'm sure it'll convince people in the thread given that all you can do is source feminists claiming this shit, precisely like I said here:

Stunning lack of self-awareness, check.

Either they are a lying disingenuous propogandist, or someone who doesn't properly source and research their beliefs and just up and believes what other liars tell them because it fits their narrative and the liar claimed to be a feminist.

Either way, they've outed themselves as completely useless to an adult conversation about gender, as is extremely fucking typical for feminists.

Why the fuck should I care about ANYTHING they have to say, when clearly they don't bother actually learning about shit and will just believe whatever they are told by their clergy? (From not knowing fuck all about the pay gap, to believing 1/5 stats, to not knowing jack about the MRM, to basically everything about their worldview.)

Wallenburg is basically decent feminist now because he openly identifies as an MRA as well. Fine. That's great.

The ones who don't are usually:
1. ignorant of basically everything about gender and sexism
2. blatantly sexist bigots
3. In denial and already using MRM ideas, ideology, and rhetoric, but pretending they aren't an MRA. (And thus, not helping move society forward by acknowledging them as a necessary set of ideas and such.)

AMRs are ALWAYS either 1 or 2.

So it's time for everyones favorite game with Jute.

Ignorance or malice? Let's spin the wheel!

Let's search gender roles on the reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/com ... /?sort=top
(Oh hey look, i'm the top comment! Fairly common, that, by the way. *smugs*)







There's dozens and dozens, hundreds even, of such threads. There is absolutely no excuse to believe what Jute does about the MRM. The only explanations are malice, and ignorance.

So now we'll have Jute come in here and either double down and refuse to budge, showing they care more about their cult and tribalism than reality and fixing sexism, or come in here and admit they were running their mouth off about things they know nothing about, and that they just up and believe whatever the fuck they are told by feminists. In which case, they need to go away and actually go and research everything they THINK they know about sexism, because I will bet a donut they know precisely fucking nothing.

They just came in here and did the equivalent of a creationist rambling about tornadoes building a plane. It's a massive red flag.

Gonna double down some more and keep lying?

Keep proving to us how much you indeed are the mirror image of Radfems. Keep proving to us why is it that we do not like MRMs. Keep proving to us just how full of shit your argument really is.

[Jute]

Chess and Ostro don't fight, though. They disagree, but Chess reinforces Ostro's interpretation of feminism and Ostro respects Chess's craziness because it's real Feminism.

It reminds me of yin yang. Chess's crazy can't exist without Ostro and vice versa.

Yin Yang means something along the lines of harmony, that doesn't really exist here.

[The Alexanderians]

is a broader term and I think it's already taken, at that point why not just be an egalitarian?

As I've said in the past, if you stand for gender equality and don't declare yourself feminist or MRA, you'll be subject to belittlement, and I've also said it's the only reason I call myself one.

Hmm, sorry but I didn't know that about you. It clarifies a little though.

[Jute]

I like HRA. Human Rights Activist.

is a broader term and I think it's already taken, at that point why not just be an egalitarian?

It's got a bad connotation by people who think opposing feminism is somehow "egalitarian". One self-described "egalitarian" proudly wrote about a "witchhunt" on Instagram

[The Alexanderians]

is a broader term and I think it's already taken, at that point why not just be an egalitarian?

It's got a bad connotation by people who think opposing feminism is somehow "egalitarian". One self-described "egalitarian" proudly wrote about a "witchhunt" on Instagram

And? Are you saying any given movement isn't marred by shitheads?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Except weird and make no sense.

Chess and Ostro don't fight, though. They disagree, but Chess reinforces Ostro's interpretation of feminism and Ostro respects Chess's craziness because it's real Feminism.

"real feminism"

Lolk. That's just as much of a No True Scotsman as most feminists saying Chess's feminism isn't feminism at all.

[Jute]

It's got a bad connotation by people who think opposing feminism is somehow "egalitarian". One self-described "egalitarian" proudly wrote about a "witchhunt" on Instagram

And? Are you saying any given movement isn't marred by shitheads?

The difference is whether they were the ones to found it, or came to it later. As far as I know, no respectable person has declared themselves to be "egalitarian, but not feminist"

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Chess and Ostro don't fight, though. They disagree, but Chess reinforces Ostro's interpretation of feminism and Ostro respects Chess's craziness because it's real Feminism.

"real feminism"

Lolk. That's just as much of a No True Scotsman as most feminists saying Chess's feminism isn't feminism at all.

Kelin's point stands, though. Chess's radical feminism reinforces Ostro's already negative interpretation of the movement.

[Galloism]

And? Are you saying any given movement isn't marred by shitheads?

The difference is whether they were the ones to found it, or came to it later. As far as I know, no respectable person has declared themselves to be "egalitarian, but not feminist"

Actually, we've had at least half a dozen people on NSG say that, and of those, 4 of them were immensely respectable and reasonable people.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

"real feminism"

Lolk. That's just as much of a No True Scotsman as most feminists saying Chess's feminism isn't feminism at all.

Kelin's point stands, though. Chess's radical feminism reinforces Ostro's already negative interpretation of the movement.

Which is quite unfortunate, considering her variant of the ideology is pretty rare when stacked up against the other degrees of feminism.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

The difference is whether they were the ones to found it, or came to it later. As far as I know, no respectable person has declared themselves to be "egalitarian, but not feminist"

Actually, we've had at least half a dozen people on NSG say that, and of those, 4 of them were immensely respectable and reasonable people.

Yeah, I'll confirm this.

Which is not to say identifying as feminist is in any way... bad, or not egalitarian.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Kelin's point stands, though. Chess's radical feminism reinforces Ostro's already negative interpretation of the movement.

Which is quite unfortunate, considering her variant of the ideology is pretty rare when stacked up against the other degrees of feminism.

It is unfortunate indeed, but there's no better blind person than the one who, having perfect vision, refuses to see.

Ostro's tirade wouldn't benefit from understanding that Chess's strain of radical feminism is rare and not the sum of the entire ideology. Better to keep demonizing.

[Jute]

The difference is whether they were the ones to found it, or came to it later. As far as I know, no respectable person has declared themselves to be "egalitarian, but not feminist"

Actually, we've had at least half a dozen people on NSG say that, and of those, 4 of them were immensely respectable and reasonable people.

That might be true then, but are there any celebrities/academics/etc. doing that?