The NationStates Feminist Thread

[Kvatchdom]

I'm a member of the Social Democrats of Finland which has a feminist section, but they're in no way radfem by any measure. Radfem are the people who want to kill all men and populate the earth with female bone marrow. That's how I see it.

See?
Social Democrats of Finland support Nordic Model: criminalisation of purchasers of sex.
But they aren't labeled "radfems", they're considered normal feminists in Norden: as long as we do not advocate for killing males or something, there's no such thing as "radfem". So, since Radical Feminists don't hate males and the "worst" thing ever proposed by "F!" was just only a tax on males in order to repay the social cost of violence against women, there's no such thing as "radfems" in Norden.
That's why I wrote I feel a little uncomfortable when people say I'm a "radfem".
Then I surrendered...

It is still a huge problem that needs to be fixed. False reports only make up 8% of the reports.

It's not 8%, it's no more than 2%.

Prostitution is completely legal in Finland, but only through the internet. The law was created during a Social Democrat/Centre government.
I wouldn't count you as a radical feminist. Radicals tend to like killing/enslavement and other disturbing things. Your ideals are disturbing, yes, but not that disturbing. A tax on males will never solve violence against women, especially when men too endure same kind of violence, though in a smaller scale.

8% is what a study sent to me by a feminist like you said.
EDIT: This is from a global study if I remember correctly.

[Hirota]

It seems to me that you're not just only ready for a collaboration with MRA, it seems to me that you're redy to directly enter in MRA.

Proving beyond all doubt that any questioning of the radfem orthodoxy means you are excommunicated from the cult by it's rabid, frothing at the mouth fanatics. Cue the accusations of being "anti-feminist" and internalised mysogny!

I wouldn't count you as a radical feminist. Radicals tend to like killing/enslavement and other disturbing things.

Then by your own definition, CM IS a radical feminist.

It's not 8%, it's no more than 2%.

You've posted this before, it's been thoroughly debunked, and the fact you continue posting it demonstrates you have no interest in the truth.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

They're ignorant extremist atheists.

And you're a religious extremist.

Ahh, the good ol' religious extremist. I knew someone would worm their way to this thread, along the lines of, "feminism is anti-religion!"
I wonder what feminism thinks about religion.

[Chessmistress]

See?
Social Democrats of Finland support Nordic Model: criminalisation of purchasers of sex.
But they aren't labeled "radfems", they're considered normal feminists in Norden: as long as we do not advocate for killing males or something, there's no such thing as "radfem". So, since Radical Feminists don't hate males and the "worst" thing ever proposed by "F!" was just only a tax on males in order to repay the social cost of violence against women, there's no such thing as "radfems" in Norden.
That's why I wrote I feel a little uncomfortable when people say I'm a "radfem".
Then I surrendered...



It's not 8%, it's no more than 2%.

Prostitution is completely legal in Finland, but only through the internet. The law was created during a Social Democrat/Centre government.
I wouldn't count you as a radical feminist. Radicals tend to like killing/enslavement and other disturbing things. Your ideals are disturbing, yes, but not that disturbing. A tax on males will never solve violence against women, especially when men too endure same kind of violence, though in a smaller scale.

8% is what a study sent to me by a feminist like you said.
EDIT: This is from a global study if I remember correctly.

Prostitution is completely illegal in Finland, except through the internet. The law was created during a Social Democrat/Centre government as compromise because not all wished the Swedish Model.
The proposed tax on males was mainly meant to improve women's incomes severely hurted by the gender pay gap. Violence against women should be drastically reduced by other means: through enforcement of Convention of Istanbul, especially by the special measures at the article 4.
However thank you for correctly framing my thoughts as "just a little above the average nordic feminist thought", because I admit I feel a little uncomfortable with people here calling me an extremist: they seems to have not even an hint how a real extremist is. Irene von Wachenfelt, former president of ROKS, stated that "males are worse than animals" and praised Valerie Solanas, in example. However, people defining me "extremist" wasn't totally bad: their attitude helped me to improve and "extremize" the roleplay

[Valyrian Freeholds]

Prostitution is completely legal in Finland, but only through the internet. The law was created during a Social Democrat/Centre government.
I wouldn't count you as a radical feminist. Radicals tend to like killing/enslavement and other disturbing things. Your ideals are disturbing, yes, but not that disturbing. A tax on males will never solve violence against women, especially when men too endure same kind of violence, though in a smaller scale.

8% is what a study sent to me by a feminist like you said.
EDIT: This is from a global study if I remember correctly.

Prostitution is completely illegal in Finland, except through the internet. The law was created during a Social Democrat/Centre government as compromise because not all wished the Swedish Model.
The proposed tax on males was mainly meant to improve women's incomes severely hurted by the gender pay gap. Violence against women should be drastically reduced by other means: through enforcement of Convention of Istanbul, especially by the special measures at the article 4.
However thank you for correctly framing my thoughts as "just a little above the average nordic feminist thought", because I admit I feel a little uncomfortable with people here calling me an extremist: they seems to have not even an hint how a real extremist is. Irene von Wachenfelt, former president of ROKS, stated that "males are worse than animals" and praised Valerie Solanas, in example. However, people defining me "extremist" wasn't totally bad: their attitude helped me to improve and "extremize" the roleplay

So you make a demographic poorer, to make the other demographic seem less poor in comparison? Best thing I've heard all day, economic gold that one is.

[Chessmistress]

Prostitution is completely illegal in Finland, except through the internet. The law was created during a Social Democrat/Centre government as compromise because not all wished the Swedish Model.
The proposed tax on males was mainly meant to improve women's incomes severely hurted by the gender pay gap. Violence against women should be drastically reduced by other means: through enforcement of Convention of Istanbul, especially by the special measures at the article 4.
However thank you for correctly framing my thoughts as "just a little above the average nordic feminist thought", because I admit I feel a little uncomfortable with people here calling me an extremist: they seems to have not even an hint how a real extremist is. Irene von Wachenfelt, former president of ROKS, stated that "males are worse than animals" and praised Valerie Solanas, in example. However, people defining me "extremist" wasn't totally bad: their attitude helped me to improve and "extremize" the roleplay

So you make a demographic poorer, to make the other demographic seem less poor in comparison? Best thing I've heard all day, economic gold that one is.

The idea wasn't meant to totally solve the pay gap issue, that is about 20% in Sweden: the idea was a tax on males' incomes, around 8% and then giving the revenues of such tax almost entirely to women. That would have led to more balanced incomes.

[Wallenburg]

So you make a demographic poorer, to make the other demographic seem less poor in comparison? Best thing I've heard all day, economic gold that one is.

The idea wasn't meant to totally solve the pay gap issue, that is about 20% in Sweden: the idea was a tax on males' incomes, around 8% and then giving the revenues of such tax almost entirely to women. That would have led to more balanced incomes.

You seriously support taxing people for having a Y chromosome? What kind of logic is that?

[Valyrian Freeholds]

So you make a demographic poorer, to make the other demographic seem less poor in comparison? Best thing I've heard all day, economic gold that one is.

The idea wasn't meant to totally solve the pay gap issue, that is about 20% in Sweden: the idea was a tax on males' incomes, around 8% and then giving the revenues of such tax almost entirely to women. That would have led to more balanced incomes.

That sounds like the most intrusive and economically authoritarian thing I've heard on NS forums, bearing in mind I haven't been to a lot of economic threads but still.

[Tierra Prime]

So you make a demographic poorer, to make the other demographic seem less poor in comparison? Best thing I've heard all day, economic gold that one is.

The idea wasn't meant to totally solve the pay gap issue, that is about 20% in Sweden: the idea was a tax on males' incomes, around 8% and then giving the revenues of such tax almost entirely to women. That would have led to more balanced incomes.

You do realise the pay gap is largely a myth, right? It's not men's fault that woman chose lower paying careers.

[Chessmistress]

The idea wasn't meant to totally solve the pay gap issue, that is about 20% in Sweden: the idea was a tax on males' incomes, around 8% and then giving the revenues of such tax almost entirely to women. That would have led to more balanced incomes.

You seriously support taxing people for having a Y chromosome? What kind of logic is that?

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

IMF plan to cut women's income tax rate by five percentage points could raise Ireland's GDP as well as tackle inequality

[Adnan Nawaz And Bureacrats Elsewhere]

You seriously support taxing people for having a Y chromosome? What kind of logic is that?

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

IMF plan to cut women's income tax rate by five percentage points could raise Ireland's GDP as well as tackle inequality

Pay gap is a myth, Chess. Much like everything else you're spouting. Also that is discrimination based on gender. That's kind of what feminism aims to avoid. You're not doing too well in that department.

[Wallenburg]

The idea wasn't meant to totally solve the pay gap issue, that is about 20% in Sweden: the idea was a tax on males' incomes, around 8% and then giving the revenues of such tax almost entirely to women. That would have led to more balanced incomes.

You do realise the pay gap is largely a myth, right? It's not men's fault that woman chose lower paying careers.

That's bullshit. Women don't say, "Well, I could take a $100,000 job or a $80,000 job, but I'd really rather work at a $40,000 job."

[Val Halla]

You seriously support taxing people for having a Y chromosome? What kind of logic is that?

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

IMF plan to cut women's income tax rate by five percentage points could raise Ireland's GDP as well as tackle inequality

Pretty sure the wage gap is mostly made up

Why don't we work on the fact that transgender people are 5 times more likely to be unemployed.

[Esternial]

You seriously support taxing people for having a Y chromosome? What kind of logic is that?

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

IMF plan to cut women's income tax rate by five percentage points could raise Ireland's GDP as well as tackle inequality

Dealing with the issue on the area of taxes seems like preferring to let the crime happen and then deal with it rather than attempt to prevent it - which would involve actually focusing on closing the pay gap rather than compensation for its existence.

[Wallenburg]

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

Pay gap is a myth, Chess. Much like everything else you're spouting. Also that is discrimination based on gender. That's kind of what feminism aims to avoid. You're not doing too well in that department.

Also bullshit.

[Byzantium Imperial]

Pay gap is a myth, Chess. Much like everything else you're spouting. Also that is discrimination based on gender. That's kind of what feminism aims to avoid. You're not doing too well in that department.

Also bullshit.

Can you quote something other then the clearly biased AAUW?

[Chessmistress]

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

Pretty sure the wage gap is mostly made up

Why don't we work on the fact that transgender people are 5 times more likely to be unemployed.

Maybe the approach of IMF is better: lowering taxes on women's incomes.
Because there's also the problem of gay males: they're generally quite supportive to feminism (at least compared to heterosxual males) and they would be hurted by an increased taxation on males.
By decreasing taxes on women's incomes, such problem would be avoided.

I'm pretty sure that a de-taxation of women's incomes will be the solution of gender pay gap: I don't really see other solutions.

[Valyrian Freeholds]

You seriously support taxing people for having a Y chromosome? What kind of logic is that?

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

IMF plan to cut women's income tax rate by five percentage points could raise Ireland's GDP as well as tackle inequality

If there is a pay gap maybe raising the wages for women?

[Valyrian Freeholds]

Pretty sure the wage gap is mostly made up

Why don't we work on the fact that transgender people are 5 times more likely to be unemployed.

Maybe the approach of IMF is better: lowering taxes on women's incomes.
Because there's also the problem of gay males: they're generally quite supportive to feminism (at least compared to heterosxual males) and they would be hurted by an increased taxation on males.
By decreasing taxes on women's incomes, such problem would be avoided.

I'm pretty sure that a de-taxation of women's incomes will be the solution of gender pay gap: I don't really see other solutions.

Solving Economic inequality with economic inequality I see your trick, oh no wait I don't and your trick is on fire now.

[Chessmistress]

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

Dealing with the issue on the area of taxes seems like preferring to let the crime happen and then deal with it rather than attempt to prevent it - which would involve actually focusing on closing the pay gap rather than compensation for its existence.

That's even true, but there is much more at stake.
A tax reduction on women's incomes would create an important precedent, and above all it would shape a mental attitude appropriate to the achievement of substantive equality.

[Wallenburg]

Also bullshit.

Can you quote something other then the clearly biased AAUW?

Sorry. I didn't recognize the acronym. Here's what I found.

[Chessmistress]

Yes.
And it's a quite common thought within feminism in Europe.
How you suppose to overcome the gender pay gap? With words?
Maybe do you prefer detaxing people for having XX chromosomes?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... inequality

If there is a pay gap maybe raising the wages for women?

Raising women's wages cannot work well: women would lost competitivity compared to males.

[Val Halla]

Pretty sure the wage gap is mostly made up

Why don't we work on the fact that transgender people are 5 times more likely to be unemployed.

Maybe the approach of IMF is better: lowering taxes on women's incomes.
Because there's also the problem of gay males: they're generally quite supportive to feminism (at least compared to heterosxual males) and they would be hurted by an increased taxation on males.
By decreasing taxes on women's incomes, such problem would be avoided.

I'm pretty sure that a de-taxation of women's incomes will be the solution of gender pay gap: I don't really see other solutions.

Are you suggesting women should have to pay less tax?

[Valyrian Freeholds]

Dealing with the issue on the area of taxes seems like preferring to let the crime happen and then deal with it rather than attempt to prevent it - which would involve actually focusing on closing the pay gap rather than compensation for its existence.

That's even true, but there is much more at stake.
A tax reduction on women's incomes would create an important precedent, and above all it would shape a mental attitude appropriate to the achievement of substantive equality.

It's called capitalism and free markets, nature's way of deciding who is strong and who is poor.

[Byzantium Imperial]

If there is a pay gap maybe raising the wages for women?

Raising women's wages cannot work well: women would lost competitivity compared to males.

Are you implying that women arn't competitive enough to deserve to be payed as much as men? Because thats what this statement implies.