Leftists have, can, and should oppose Islam

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Al Qaeda always came off as overtly religious and Islamic to me.

That's how they justify recruitment to a lot of their members, but Western intervention in the Middle East (particularly in favour of Israel) is one of the major causes for Muslim backlash against us.

Pretty sure I already stated that...

There's no reason to violently stamp out a belief system that not everyone takes that seriously. The reason we have Islamic terrorism is American intervention and decades of subjugation. It's mainly the West's fault anyway. We provoked them to it and now we want to bomb them into oblivion? I'd be fucking pissed too. Shit like this only creates more terrorists.

[Neo Telangana]

Would leftists also oppose slavery and imperial colonialism and a whole lot of other terrible right wing crimes 'justified' in the name of Christianity?

Whenever a thread is made about Islamic barbarism and its opposition to human progress, why do apologists invariably bring up Christianity? What makes you think radical leftists are friends of any organized religion? Are you familiar at all with the history of left-wing movements and their actions against Christianity and Islam? I have summarized a few of them in the OP.

[Steamtopia]

That's how they justify recruitment to a lot of their members, but Western intervention in the Middle East (particularly in favour of Israel) is one of the major causes for Muslim backlash against us.

Pretty sure I already stated that...

There's no reason to violently stamp out a belief system that not everyone takes that seriously. The reason we have Islamic terrorism is American intervention and decades of subjugation. It's mainly the West's fault anyway. We provoked them to it and now we want to bomb them into oblivion? I'd be fucking pissed too. Shit like this only creates more terrorists.

Which is why I question you mentioning 9/11 earlier.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Pretty sure I already stated that...

Which is why I question you mentioning 9/11 earlier.

Because he acted like Christian terrorism in the past century is on the level of Islamic terrorism, which just isn't true.

[Vashtanaraada]

Yes you can, yes you should. People of all political persuasions should fight against racism, bigotry and the right to faith. This isn't the same as moral relativism and in the face of forms of Islam that restrict the rights of women, sexual minorities ETC then you bloody well should oppose it.

But Islam may exist without being homophobic.
In Turkey, being gay isn't a crime.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

Wouldn't religious tolerance and an academic understanding of it be better than than blindly opposing it and trying to quash it, I mean that does sound kind of extremist. A progressive society must learn to tolerate up to a certain level of moderation - and then lawfully punish those who go to the extreme.

[Steamtopia]

Yes you can, yes you should. People of all political persuasions should fight against racism, bigotry and the right to faith. This isn't the same as moral relativism and in the face of forms of Islam that restrict the rights of women, sexual minorities ETC then you bloody well should oppose it.

But Islam may exist without being homophobic.
In Turkey, being gay isn't a crime.

Using Turkey as an example of Islam is a terrible example, seeing as how Turkey is based on a secular model.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

Which is why I question you mentioning 9/11 earlier.

Because he acted like Christian terrorism in the past century is on the level of Islamic terrorism, which just isn't true.

Are you sure about that? Christianity was used to help justify to bring Native Americans to the brink of extinction - it justified invading other countries and subjegating their people - you could say all the greatest empires in the world (Egyptian, Roman, British, Ottoman) used religion as a driving force - and millions of people were affected by it.

[Imperializt Russia]

Especially seeing as how 9/11 is more geopolitical and not religious.

Al Qaeda always came off as overtly religious and Islamic to me.

It's just flavour.

Islamism is a political movement that happens to carry religious baggage.
Much like nationalism is a political movement that happens to carry ethnic spiel as baggage.

[Vashtanaraada]

Which is why I question you mentioning 9/11 earlier.

Because he acted like Christian terrorism in the past century is on the level of Islamic terrorism, which just isn't true.

How about the IRA or Ulster paramilitaries? They fought on religious terms and were Christian.
You also forget the KKK, who were indeed active in the last century.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Because he acted like Christian terrorism in the past century is on the level of Islamic terrorism, which just isn't true.

Are you sure about that? Christianity was used to help justify to bring Native Americans to the brink of extinction - it justified invading other countries and subjegating their people - you could say all the greatest empires in the world (Egyptian, Roman, British, Ottoman) used religion as a driving force - and millions of people were affected by it.

Oh, sorry, I forgot all that happened in the past century, when the world start progressing while Islam went the other way.

[Vashtanaraada]

But Islam may exist without being homophobic.
In Turkey, being gay isn't a crime.

Using Turkey as an example of Islam is a terrible example, seeing as how Turkey is based on a secular model.

It demonstrates therefore though that a heavily Muslim population may indeed be progressive.

[Frisbeeteria]

You're an idiot to not support freedom of religion.

You're *** Warned for flaming *** for the underlined portion, as well as similar comments elsewhere.

"Attacking the argument" = fine. "Attacking the poster" = not fine. See the rules.

[Steamtopia]

Are you sure about that? Christianity was used to help justify to bring Native Americans to the brink of extinction - it justified invading other countries and subjegating their people - you could say all the greatest empires in the world (Egyptian, Roman, British, Ottoman) used religion as a driving force - and millions of people were affected by it.

Oh, sorry, I forgot all that happened in the past century, when the world start progressing while Islam went the other way.

A question worth asking: Why has Islam regressed? It was, once, the most progressive major religion.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Because he acted like Christian terrorism in the past century is on the level of Islamic terrorism, which just isn't true.

How about the IRA or Ulster paramilitaries? They fought on religious terms and were Christian.
You also forget the KKK, who were indeed active in the last century.

There you go, the KKK. Legitimate. You're right, the Klan is an example.

I wouldn't count the IRA because I doubt religion was their actual rallying cry and point. It was obviously an aspect, but yeah.

[Rhaetia-Grischun]

Um... yeah? People can choose not to press charges... and do so all the time... this isn't that tricky a situation...

A different one would be where a husband was say forcing his wife to always wear long, traditional skirts and carry a Bible or some such shit. That wouldn't be okay.

What if the person abused was someone below the age of 18? A child? Where do you live??

[Greater-London]

But Islam may exist without being homophobic.
In Turkey, being gay isn't a crime.

Of course it can. Islam can coexist with secularism, women's rights, democracy, LGBT rights ETC. Just sometimes it doesn't, and when it doesn't you should criticize it and not accuse people who criticize it of biggotry.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Oh, sorry, I forgot all that happened in the past century, when the world start progressing while Islam went the other way.

A question worth asking: Why has Islam regressed? It was, once, the most progressive major religion.

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think it's mainly because of massive Western intervention in their region, including setting up and defending Israel.

[Vashtanaraada]

You're an idiot to not support freedom of religion.

You're *** Warned for flaming *** for the underlined portion, as well as similar comments elsewhere.

"Attacking the argument" = fine. "Attacking the poster" = not fine. See the rules.

Can I asked why I found myself on Warning Level 2 like a couple of days ago?
I genuinely thought I didn't say much.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Um... yeah? People can choose not to press charges... and do so all the time... this isn't that tricky a situation...

A different one would be where a husband was say forcing his wife to always wear long, traditional skirts and carry a Bible or some such shit. That wouldn't be okay.

What if the person abused was someone below the age of 18? A child? Where do you live??

wat.

Where did you get child abuse from this? The point is that things that are already illegal are still illegal. Nothing gets around a basic law, who's trying to say it ever does?

[Steamtopia]

A question worth asking: Why has Islam regressed? It was, once, the most progressive major religion.

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think it's mainly because of massive Western intervention in their region, including setting up and defending Israel.

Correct. However, it is also worth looking at how many Islamic movements used features of fascism or communism, ideologies that were popular and died off just as Islamic extremism took off. Is there a connection? I say yes.

[Neo Telangana]

Al Qaeda always came off as overtly religious and Islamic to me.

It's just flavour.

Islamism is a political movement that happens to carry religious baggage.
Much like nationalism is a political movement that happens to carry ethnic spiel as baggage.

Islam itself was a political movement from the beginning. You seem to forget that Muhammad was not just a self-proclaimed "prophet"; he was also a warlord and politician who forged a pan-Arab religious state by the time of his death. Modern Wahhabism is nothing more than a desire to return to the original, pristine Islam of Muhammad's time.

[Vashtanaraada]

But Islam may exist without being homophobic.
In Turkey, being gay isn't a crime.

Of course it can. Islam can coexist with secularism, women's rights, democracy, LGBT rights ETC. Just sometimes it doesn't, and when it doesn't you should criticize it and not accuse people who criticize it of biggotry.

Just evening out what you said before man.
Just so we know Islam can be sound.

[Vashtanaraada]

Where did my fellow leftists go?
It isn't tea-time is it now?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think it's mainly because of massive Western intervention in their region, including setting up and defending Israel.

Correct. However, it is also worth looking at how many Islamic movements used features of fascism or communism, ideologies that were popular and died off just as Islamic extremism took off. Is there a connection? I say yes.

Sure. I recently watched something that was saying that much of the reason so many Western teens seems to be gravitating toward radical Islam is because Fascism and Communism are basically dead nowadays, and Islamism is the radicalism that's left.