Europe's Problem With Islam

[Teemant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Eu ... oschme.svg

This map shows where Eastern Europe is. According to this map Baltics aren't even in Eastern Europe.

But fact is that Balkans are part of southern Europe.

But they are in this one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... _of_the_EU).png

Please stop trying to artificially reorder the continent.

I'm not. And your source says 404 not found.

[The Cobalt Sky]

Does anyone know what those Muslims did to Europe? They tried to invade it, conquer it, destroy it, break it, and a lot more. Does Europe just have to respond like it's nothing? Say America got invaded by Muslims that wanted to convert you all into Muslims, would you respond like it's nothing?

Sorry if I sound anti-Muslim, but I'm just giving my most honest thoughts.

Why apologize when that really seems to be the truth? Not all Muslims invaded Europe. Not even most. And Europe kind of did that to the rest of the world, anyway. I mean, that doesn't excuse the actions of those few who take it too far, but don't go pointing fingers when your hands are dirty.

This is Britain alone:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9653 ... bourg.html

[The Archregimancy]

Name me one western country that has been conquered by Ottomans...
Eastern Europe has the lowest muslim population as % of country's population in the world.

You're being really disingenuous here.

First of all, significant parts of Spain - and for a while Portugal - were under Muslim control from 711 - 1492 AD; that's over 700 years. Muslims made up some 80% of the population of Al Andalus by 1100 AD. Spain's Islamic heritage - notably, but not exclusively, the Alhambra and the Great Mosque of Cordoba - are significant heritage sites visited by millions of international tourists. By any count those are significant demographic and cultural impacts

As to Eastern Europe, the term is malleable, but by many counts includes the Balkan Peninsula - much of which was under direct Ottoman control for centuries, with significant and long-lasting cultural and demographic impacts across the Balkans. And note that we haven't even begun to discuss the impact of the Golden Horde and the Khanate of the Crimea on Russian history, demographics, and culture.


Eastern Europe does not have 'the lowest muslim population as % of country's population in the world'.

95% of the population of Kosovo are Muslims
56% of the population of Albania are Muslims
45% of the population of Bosnia are Muslims
7.8% of the population of Bulgaria are Muslims
6.5% of the population of Russia are Muslims - Islam is the second-largest religion in Russia after Orthodoxy

[Herrebrugh]

Your attempts to construct a field fitting your argument aside, it is blatantly false that Europe (yes even west) has nothing to do with Islam in its history.

You're the one trying to make Eastern Europe bigger as it is. I wonder how much more south will you go (southern countries). Have you reached South Africa yet?

Just because something is located in the south doesn't mean it isn't also located in the west...

[Rio Cana]

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

And Spain is not in western Europe all of a sudden? This statement is also false anyway, considering the Franks fought off Iberian Muslims at Tours pre 10th century.

The UK., France, the Netherlands had far-flung empires which included territories whose population had an Islamic majority. All under the Imperial flag of those nations. You want empire you get empire and all that comes with it including there Islamic population.

Generally, it seems only Portugal and Spain had some type of imperial sponsored plan to convert the people of there far-flung empire into Catholics unlike most of the other nations in Europe.

Generally, Portugal and Spain have tended to allow more immigration from there former territories which is very close to there own culture. For example, yes Bolivian culture is different but its has a Western flare which could easily fit in Europe.
Cultural Example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mIU6FsGVe4

[Ereria]

Does anyone know what those Muslims did to Europe? They tried to invade it, conquer it, destroy it, break it, and a lot more. Does Europe just have to respond like it's nothing? Say America got invaded by Muslims that wanted to convert you all into Muslims, would you respond like it's nothing?

Sorry if I sound anti-Muslim, but I'm just giving my most honest thoughts.

Should native americans pick up their spears and bows and hunt europeans out of their continent, you know, because we already are bringing the past up here?

[Valaran]

But they are in this one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... _of_the_EU).png

Please stop trying to artificially reorder the continent.

I'm not. And your source says 404 not found.

You really are - muslims have interacted with all areas of Europe - the Ottomans even invaded Poland. You can restrict it to whatever area you want, but don't act like we're distinct and isolated from Islam.

The map is being annoying.

[Herrebrugh]

And Spain is not in western Europe all of a sudden? This statement is also false anyway, considering the Franks fought off Iberian Muslims at Tours pre 10th century.

The UK., France, the Netherlands had far-flung empires which included territories whose population had an Islamic majority. All under the Imperial flag of those nations. You want empire you get empire and all that comes with it including there Islamic population.

Generally, it seems only Portugal and Spain had some type of imperial sponsored plan to convert the people of there far-flung empire into Catholics unlike most of the other nations in Europe.

Generally, Portugal and Spain have tended to allow more immigration from there former territories which is very close to there own culture. For example, yes Bolivian culture is different but its has a Western flare which could easily fit in Europe.
Cultural Example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mIU6FsGVe4

Netherland has been the country with the largest amount of Muslims for quite a while as a result, hehe...

[Valaran]

But they are in this one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... _of_the_EU).png

Please stop trying to artificially reorder the continent.

I'm not. And your source says 404 not found.

Try here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe

As defined by the EU's Thesaurus, its located in the East as well. And the CIA factbook has them in the Southeast. Only the UN is different, and it splits up the balkans.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

I'm not. And your source says 404 not found.

You really are - muslims have interacted with all areas of Europe - the Ottomans even invaded Poland. You can restrict it to whatever area you want, but don't act like we're distinct and isolated form Islam.

The map is being annoying.

And let's not forget Austria. The Siege of Vienna is a rather significant historical event involving central Europe and the Ottomans. Not to mention the western empires and their colonial possessions were in many parts largely Muslim.

[Valaran]

You really are - muslims have interacted with all areas of Europe - the Ottomans even invaded Poland. You can restrict it to whatever area you want, but don't act like we're distinct and isolated form Islam.

The map is being annoying.

And let's not forget Austria. The Siege of Vienna is a rather significant historical event involving central Europe and the Ottomans. Not to mention the western empires and their colonial possessions were in many parts largely Muslim.

Of course

Its a very long list of interactions.

[Teemant]

And Spain is not in western Europe all of a sudden? This statement is also false anyway, considering the Franks fought off Iberian Muslims at Tours pre 10th century.

The UK., France, the Netherlands had far-flung empires which included territories whose population had an Islamic majority. All under the Imperial flag of those nations. You want empire you get empire and all that comes with it including there Islamic population.

Generally, it seems only Portugal and Spain had some type of imperial sponsored plan to convert the people of there far-flung empire into Catholics unlike most of the other nations in Europe.

Generally, Portugal and Spain have tended to allow more immigration from there former territories which is very close to there own culture. For example, yes Bolivian culture is different but its has a Western flare which could easily fit in Europe.
Cultural Example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mIU6FsGVe4

I was not talking about colonies. I was talking about territories in Europe.

[Teemant]

You really are - muslims have interacted with all areas of Europe - the Ottomans even invaded Poland. You can restrict it to whatever area you want, but don't act like we're distinct and isolated form Islam.

The map is being annoying.

And let's not forget Austria. The Siege of Vienna is a rather significant historical event involving central Europe and the Ottomans. Not to mention the western empires and their colonial possessions were in many parts largely Muslim.

You all bring me historic events where Europeans (Christians) and Ottomans (Muslims) killed each other. Is this want you want to happen in 21st century?

Obviously fighting with muslims is so important part of European cultures and values as it seems from your posts.

[Valaran]

I was not talking about colonies. I was talking about territories in Europe.

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

Actually no, you said countries, and across their entire history (including colonial phases). Emphasis mine.

[Valaran]

And let's not forget Austria. The Siege of Vienna is a rather significant historical event involving central Europe and the Ottomans. Not to mention the western empires and their colonial possessions were in many parts largely Muslim.

You all bring me historic events where Europeans (Christians) and Ottomans (Muslims) killed each other. Is this want you want to happen in 21st century?

Obviously fighting with muslims is so important part of European cultures and values as it seems from your posts.

You said there was no interaction. Now that's been proven wrong by several posters, you change it to violence?

Fine then - the kingdom of Two Scillies promoted learning and understanding between both muslims and christians.

[Teemant]

I'm not. And your source says 404 not found.

Try here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe

As defined by the EU's Thesaurus, its located in the East as well. And the CIA factbook has them in the Southeast. Only the UN is different, and it splits up the balkans.

So United Nations map is wrong and the map you chose is the right? Okay.

[Teemant]

You all bring me historic events where Europeans (Christians) and Ottomans (Muslims) killed each other. Is this want you want to happen in 21st century?

Obviously fighting with muslims is so important part of European cultures and values as it seems from your posts.

You said there was no interaction. Now that's been proven wrong by several posters, you change it to violence?

Fine then - the kingdom of Two Scillies promoted learning and understanding between both muslims and christians.

Can you quote me where I said there was no interaction? I said islam isn't part of European culture. Interaction and being part of culture is two different things. If I talk with asians it doesn't make me asian.

[Neo Telangana]

Islam is certainly a vile ideology, and the people of Europe have the right to oppose it. However, my only concern is that opposition to Islam may be conflated with racist feelings towards Arabs, Iranians, and other "brown" people. I have no problem whatsoever with anti-Islamic sentiment, but I do have a problem with racism.

It really isn't.

Of course it is. Any ideology that threatens non-believers with eternal suffering, treats women as inferior to men, and gives primacy to one racial/cultural group over another is immoral and vile.

[Valaran]

Try here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe

As defined by the EU's Thesaurus, its located in the East as well. And the CIA factbook has them in the Southeast. Only the UN is different, and it splits up the balkans.

So United Nations map is wrong and the map you chose is the right? Okay.

No, the UN also includes areas where the muslim population is over one percent - its 13.4% in Bulgaria, which according to them is in Eastern Europe.

Only your view is wrong.

[Souseiseki]

The UK., France, the Netherlands had far-flung empires which included territories whose population had an Islamic majority. All under the Imperial flag of those nations. You want empire you get empire and all that comes with it including there Islamic population.

Generally, it seems only Portugal and Spain had some type of imperial sponsored plan to convert the people of there far-flung empire into Catholics unlike most of the other nations in Europe.

Generally, Portugal and Spain have tended to allow more immigration from there former territories which is very close to there own culture. For example, yes Bolivian culture is different but its has a Western flare which could easily fit in Europe.
Cultural Example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mIU6FsGVe4

I was not talking about colonies. I was talking about territories in Europe.

>he doesn't know that algérie est française

[Valaran]

You said there was no interaction. Now that's been proven wrong by several posters, you change it to violence?

Fine then - the kingdom of Two Scillies promoted learning and understanding between both muslims and christians.

Can you quote me where I said there was no interaction? I said islam isn't part of European culture. Interaction and being part of culture is two different things. If I talk with asians it doesn't make me asian.

Coming right up:

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

Also, please define European culture, since that isn't homogenous either. There isn't even a uniform British culture, let alone a European one.

[Esternial]

Europe as a whole is western, so Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, etc. If that is not good enough, much of Spain was also conquered by Muslims, though the moors not ottomans.

Considering two countries (Albania and Bosnia) are majority Muslim, I find th hard to believe.

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

Utterly irrelevant as an argument.

A shitload of countries in the past had nothing to do with "insert X" in history back then. Thing change.

[Neo Telangana]

Of course it is. Any ideology that threatens non-believers with eternal suffering, treats women as inferior to men, and gives primacy to one racial/cultural group over another is immoral and vile.

I should also mention that Islam gives Muslim men the right to have sex with their wives whenever they want, and the right to rape any female slaves they own. I am not making any of this up. I urge people to educate themselves on this vile ideology, which is an affront to human dignity and civilization.

If average Muslims are decent, moral beings, it is not because of Islam and the Quran, but in spite of it. Anyone who truly follows the teachings of the Quran and Hadiths, and emulates the example of Muhammad in its fullest, will end up like the soldiers of ISIS. Luckily, the average Muslim does not take his/her religion as seriously as those people. Unfortunately, however, the average Muslim cannot criticize Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his self-proclaimed Caliphate using the language of Islam. They must use secular moral reasoning that is not derived from Islam at all, for ISIS is not in any way un-Islamic at its core. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has a PhD in Islamic Studies and understands his religion far better than any apologist for Islam.

[Teemant]

Can you quote me where I said there was no interaction? I said islam isn't part of European culture. Interaction and being part of culture is two different things. If I talk with asians it doesn't make me asian.

Coming right up:

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

Also, please define European culture, since that isn't homogenous either. There isn't even a uniform British culture, let alone a European one.

Islam isn't part of history of these countries (if we leave out colonies because I'm talking about Europe). Can you give me some examples how islam has historically been shaping culture and values of these countries?

But true. I should have used different words but english is not my first language.

[Souseiseki]

Of course it is. Any ideology that threatens non-believers with eternal suffering, treats women as inferior to men, and gives primacy to one racial/cultural group over another is immoral and vile.

I should also mention that Islam gives Muslim men the right to have sex with their wives whenever they want, and the right to rape any female slaves they own. I am not making any of this up. I urge people to educate themselves on this vile ideology, which is an affront to human dignity and civilization.

spoken like a man that has never read the bible and has no idea what the fuck a rome actually is