Europe's Problem With Islam

[Shofercia]

So, there's been a lot of talk in the news lately about Islam in Europe. How Muslims bring terrorism, crime, poverty, etc. They can't be trusted, they're stealing our jobs, you name it. While there's heated debate on this, one thing's for sure—Europe has a problem. That's right, they've got too many damn Islamophobes. People like Geert Wilders, who've said that the Koran is a "fascist book", equivalent to Mein Kampf, and has advocated for a Hijab tax. And yes, this is a man people actually elected. In a real legislative party. Of course, the Netherlands isn't the only country that these radical extremists have affected. We're seeing the poisonous influence of Islamophobia in France, Denmark, Sweden, and more. The rhetoric these parties espouse could be compared to a so-called Religion of Hate. Violence against Muslims in Europe is on the rise, and has grown particularly bad since the 2015 Charlie Hebdo shooting.

So it's clear that we've got a problem here. In my view, Islamophobia is incompatible with European values. Now, let me be clear, I don't hate Islamophobes, I hate Islamophobia. I don't believe there's any such thing as "moderate Islamophobia", even though the majority of Islamophobes aren't violent. There need to be brave souls willing to speak up in the name of free speech, despite an atmosphere of intolerance, against this hatred.

But what do you think we should do? Is this even a problem? Should we work to stop Islamophobic immigration? How can we tackle this?

The problem is EU policies. When you combine austerity with open borders, racism is bound to rise. It's happened in every single instance, in every single country. But the inept kleptocrats in Brussels will boldly carry on. When you combine open borders with austerity, you get the feeling that immigrants are taking your jobs. Since a job is something that we need to survive, that begins to evolve into "hurr durr dem Mozlmez r challingin mah suvival skillz". That in turn creates jobs for those who drive Islamophobia, like Geert Wilders. Yes, there were always racists, and there always will be racists, just like there were always idiots, and there always will be idiots. But just a poor system of education sinks more people into idiocy, so too, the duo of austerity and open borders sink more people into racism, when they're combined. Now combine that with a decrease in teacher salaries...

[Teemant]

Honestly in my opinion the fault lies within the incoming Islamic immigrants. Although a good number are, there are still a lot that refuse to assimilate into the country's culture, which increases the tension and distrust between the the Europeans and incoming immigrants.

How far exactly do they need to integrate?

You're really stretching (or how to say it) the map right now I'd say. Islam hasn't been significant demographic and cultural presence in Europe (especially Western, Central and Eastern Europe).

Bosnia? Albania? Moorish Spain? These are all in Europe and have/did have large populations of Muslims. Not to mention the centuries where the Ottomans owned the Balkans. Islam has indeed been significant in the east and western parts.

Name me one western country that has been conquered by Ottomans...
Eastern Europe has the lowest muslim population as % of country's population in the world.

[Teemant]

Banning the quran isn't radical.

I have to say I love that the Party for "Freedom" supports banning a book...

And muslims (obviously not all) don't like cartoons as well.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

The problem with tolerance is that it is a two-way street - it only works if the other side agrees to follow the same rules and be tolerant as well. Unfortunately, just because many Europeans are open-minded, tolerant and willing to accept strangers and their ways does not mean these strangers necessarily share those sentiments.

From the looks of it, most folks who come here from the Third World have no intentions of integrating or adopting European way of life, they merely want to continue with their old ways while enjoying the European living standards.

Islam in particular is an ideology that fundamentally contradicts secular European values on a number of points, and is, unlike secular ideologies, explicitly engineered to be resistant to change. It also quite explicitly rejects tolerance and declares the imposition of Islam as the only way of life as it's long-term ideological imperative. While secular European values tend to exalt plurality and diversity, encouraging individualism and deciding one's own path in life, Islam rejects all that in favour of social and ideological unity, conformity to community standards and religious doctrine.

Hence I think Europeans are very right to be concerned about the Islamization of Europe.

Lulwut.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/godlessness ... -violence/

The above is a good analysis of available data on the attitudes of European (and particularly British) Muslims, it's very long but there's a tl;dr section at the end. It covers all sorts of issues like homophobia, adultery etc, and while more Muslims have outdated views on these issues than the general population, it's worth noting that even those who believe, for instance, that homosexuality is sinful, very few are actually intolerant.
The same applies to Sharia law, only minority want it in Britain, and very few of them think it should apply to non-Muslims.

Basically, the idea that Muslims want to impose their views on non-Muslims is total BS.

[Herrebrugh]

I have to say I love that the Party for "Freedom" supports banning a book...

And muslims (obviously not all)don't like cartoons as well.

... Some Muslims don't like cartoons? So?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Geert Wilders isn't radical in my opinion.

Want to limit the number of islamophobes and far right parties in Europe? Cut the immigration from muslim countries.

Banning the quran isn't radical.

Banning books, in general, is a radical position.
Banning holy books perhaps even more so.

I think there is a minor issue of immigrants in general (not only Islamic ones) not integrating into the 'tolerant' values of many 'Western' countries because of an excess of 'tolerance' itself in those countries.
Such is a significantly more difficult problem to solve than 'Ban the Mooslems!"
It's also a smaller problem than these parties assert.

[Teemant]

And muslims (obviously not all)don't like cartoons as well.

... Some Muslims don't like cartoons? So?

So why is it so big problem when some people don't like quran.

I personally wouldn't ban any books.

[The Huskar Social Union]

And muslims (obviously not all)don't like cartoons as well.

... Some Muslims don't like cartoons? So?

Yeah there are plenty of non muslims who dont like cartoons either, so why is it important?

... Some Muslims don't like cartoons? So?

So why is it so big problem when some people don't like quran.

There is a difference between not liking and banning.

[Herrebrugh]

... Some Muslims don't like cartoons? So?

So why is it so big problem when some people don't like quran.

A political movement represented in Netherlands parliament called the Party for Freedom supports banning a book. Get it?

[Kelinfort]

Europe will learn how to assimilate immigrants eventually, just like the US.

[Shofercia]

Geert Wilders isn't radical in my opinion.

Want to limit the number of islamophobes and far right parties in Europe? Cut the immigration from muslim countries.

Banning the quran isn't radical.

Are you serious? Please tell me you're not serious. You cannot possibly be serious.

[Teemant]

... Some Muslims don't like cartoons? So?

Yeah there are plenty of non muslims who dont like cartoons either, so why is it important?

So why is it so big problem when some people don't like quran.

There is a difference between not liking and burning.

Obviously didn't get what I meant by cartoons.

[Valaran]

... Some Muslims don't like cartoons? So?

So why is it so big problem when some people don't like quran.

I personally wouldn't ban any books.

Its not. But banning is a much greater step than dislike.

[Herrebrugh]

Banning the quran isn't radical.

Are you serious? Please tell me you're not serious. You cannot possibly be serious.

I'm 99% sure they aren't. It's probably a response to "Geert Wilders isn't radical in my opinion."

[The Huskar Social Union]

Yeah there are plenty of non muslims who dont like cartoons either, so why is it important?

There is a difference between not liking and burning.

Obviously didn't get what I meant by cartoons.

Oh i do, but again there are plenty of people who are not Muslim who don't like those kind of cartoons.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

How far exactly do they need to integrate?
Bosnia? Albania? Moorish Spain? These are all in Europe and have/did have large populations of Muslims. Not to mention the centuries where the Ottomans owned the Balkans. Islam has indeed been significant in the east and western parts.

Name me one western country that has been conquered by Ottomans...
Eastern Europe has the lowest muslim population as % of country's population in the world.

Europe as a whole is western, so Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, etc. If that is not good enough, much of Spain was also conquered by Muslims, though the moors not ottomans.

Considering two countries (Albania and Bosnia) are majority Muslim, I find th hard to believe.

[Threlizdun]

... Some Muslims don't like cartoons? So?

So why is it so big problem when some people don't like quran.

I personally wouldn't ban any books.

Why is it a problem that some Muslims don't like cartoons? People who want to ban the Qur'an are radical and those who react to cartoons with violence are radical.

[Teemant]

Name me one western country that has been conquered by Ottomans...
Eastern Europe has the lowest muslim population as % of country's population in the world.

Europe as a whole is western, so Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, etc. If that is not good enough, much of Spain was also conquered by Muslims, though the moors not ottomans.

Considering two countries (Albania and Bosnia) are majority Muslim, I find th hard to believe.

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

[Herrebrugh]

So why is it so big problem when some people don't like quran.

I personally wouldn't ban any books.

Why is it a problem that some Muslims don't like cartoons? People who want to ban the Qur'an are radical and those who react to cartoons with violence are radical.

And these specific people who want to ban the Quran are represented in parliament on exactly that platform.

[Valaran]

Europe as a whole is western, so Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, etc. If that is not good enough, much of Spain was also conquered by Muslims, though the moors not ottomans.

Considering two countries (Albania and Bosnia) are majority Muslim, I find th hard to believe.

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

Ok, but that's only part of Europe. Eastern Europe and Southern Europe is still equally relevant.

And the french allied with the Ottomans, the Germans did in WWI, the British and French ruled much of the middle east (I could go on). We've all had plenty to do with Islam.

[Teemant]

So why is it so big problem when some people don't like quran.

I personally wouldn't ban any books.

Why is it a problem that some Muslims don't like cartoons? People who want to ban the Qur'an are radical and those who react to cartoons with violence are radical.

Banning a book probably isn't the smartest thing to do but killing other people is far worse in my opinion.

[Souseiseki]

Europe as a whole is western, so Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, etc. If that is not good enough, much of Spain was also conquered by Muslims, though the moors not ottomans.

Considering two countries (Albania and Bosnia) are majority Muslim, I find th hard to believe.

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

pretty sure france has a lot of dealings with islam

[Shofercia]

Are you serious? Please tell me you're not serious. You cannot possibly be serious.

I'm 99% sure they aren't. It's probably a response to "Geert Wilders isn't radical in my opinion."

I'm not talking about PVV. I'm talking about New Werpland, who just said the equivalent of "banning the Bible isn't radical!" That sort of reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE80NuMkvg8

[Teemant]

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

Ok, but that's only part of Europe. Eastern Europe and Southern Europe is still equally relevant.

I'm from Eastern Europe. All countries here (excluding Russia) have muslim population below 1% (probably like 0.1% or even less).

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Europe as a whole is western, so Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, etc. If that is not good enough, much of Spain was also conquered by Muslims, though the moors not ottomans.

Considering two countries (Albania and Bosnia) are majority Muslim, I find th hard to believe.

What the heck. Europe is western... I meant Western Europe (which means western part of the Europe) - countries like United Kingdom, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France. These countries have nothing to do with islam in history.

And Spain is not in western Europe all of a sudden? This statement is also false anyway, considering the Franks fought off Iberian Muslims at Tours pre 10th century.